The Quintessential AR Speaker

[Glitch]

I’m interested in hearing people’s opinion on which model they consider to be the quintessential AR speaker and WHY.  Another way of asking the question would be…  If you wanted to demonstrate a pair of AR speakers for the purpose of conveying the characteristic “AR sound signature”, which model (and year) would you choose?

It would be interesting to hear opinions from a couple of perspectives.  The first perspective is if cost and rarity were not an object.  Next (as you probably guessed), if cost and rarity are a significant consideration and you had to pick a budget speaker.  For sake of argument, a budget oriented candidate could be purchased for less than $200-250 in fully working, 4/10 cosmetic condition.  I wouldn’t consider the “once in lifetime” thrift store or estate sale find to be in this category.

Another intriguing discussion could be related to the most representative speaker from each of the AR eras.  For example, the early years versus Teledyne versus post-Teledyne.  

Many of the members of this forum are in the envious position to having large collections that span several decades and the full product line.  They are in a unique position to identify trends and differences.  

I wouldn’t expect that any definitive answer will result from this topic.  I do hope that this prompts some insightful and lively discussion.

Thanks and Happy Holidays

[nefertem]

Hi Glitch eventhough i never owned the Original 9s I would want them at the Top i know everyone loves the AR3s and i respect but after hearing both the 9s and the AR3 the 9s just had special soundstage because of there size and 4 12in woofers that even most current wifey frendly loudspeakers can not reproduce

[valkyrie]

To my taste and hearing the "best" of the three ways is the AR-91 - has the classic 12" woofer and includes the AR-9 style tweeter and midrange as well as the "acoustic blanket" on the baffle.  The best of ALL AR speakers is of course the "Mighty Nine" - no real contest there. TWO 12" woofers, an 8" midbass coupler and the tweeter/midrange.  Except for those who prefer the slightly less bombastic AR-90 which only had two 10" woofers - all else being the same.

I have heard a Wilson "Alexia" - and the AR-9 has BETTER BASS response - tighter, more agile, tauter and deeper (the Wilson, a $50,000 speaker had its woofer "jump the gap" while playing Strauss and his "Zarathustra").  This was in a demo done at a high end salon conducted by Peter McGrath.  So much for progress. 

The AR-3 and 3a are the kings of the "classic" AR sound - that sound that was, again to myself, the best available in the sixties and early seventies.  Time moved on and Teledyne, a vampire corporate monolith dumped the AR speaker division as they were no longer a revenue stream.  From that point forward AR began a slow and inevitable decline.  Sad as to my taste as America lost its premier speaker manufacturer.

This is not to diminish the AR-10pi, the AR-11 or any of the other classic and Teledyne era speakers.  I owned a set of 10pi and they were to my taste great speakers.  Never owned a 3 or 3a but I have repaired a 3 and it was a very  good speaker for something right out of the late fifties.  A little muted and recessed by today's standards but nevertheless excellent tonality and almost full range.

Don't know why the AR sound so captures my hearing - I "think" it is about how even, across the audio spectrum, the typical AR sounds.  Plus almost all AR speakers have excellent bass.

Great speakers - all of them.

[Aadams]

22 hours ago, Glitch said:

If you wanted to demonstrate a pair of AR speakers for the purpose of conveying the characteristic “AR sound signature”, which model (and year) would you choose?

If I could have only one pair ------   The original AR 9 is the best all around.

If I could have multiple pairs the AR 3 series still, IMO, cannot be bettered for presentation of non-vocal acoustic ensembles including full orchestras.

22 hours ago, Glitch said:

if cost and rarity are a significant consideration and you had to pick a budget speaker.  For sake of argument, a budget oriented candidate could be purchased for less than $200-250 in fully working, 4/10 cosmetic condition.  I wouldn’t consider the “once in lifetime” thrift store or estate sale find to be in this category.

My budget sleeper would be a 58s considering spare parts are still plentiful.

In the category of rare speakers for less than $250, excluding freight and if spare parts were not a consideration, then my budget sleeper would be a 78ls.

My ultimate sleeper, if you could find one, would be a 98ls because it is roughly the size of 91 with a 200hz crossover which gets female voices out of the woofer.  

Finally, the AR5 is as good or better in many respects than the 12-inch 3 ways but AR made their reputation on bass and the AR5 rolls off a few hertz too soon to make my cut for the best AR under the stated criteria.

 

Aadams

[ar_pro]

With the notable exception of the LST, I've been fortunate to have owned most of the top-quality speakers from Acoustic Research, from the AR-1 up to the AR-9, and whether it's due to age or experience, my personal preferences among these systems have certainly changed over the years.

Without doubt, the most technically capable design was the AR-9, which - in a large-ish room with a powerful amplifier - can hold its own against many modern, and much more expensive dynamic loudspeakers. Viewed in a straight path of progress from the earlier 3-way designs, the AR-9 represented a new pinnacle, but with the concession that although subwoofer-type response could be had in an integrated, passive loudspeaker, it would be at the cost of size, complexity, and the complete abandonment of a design aesthetic - the high-performance "bookshelf" loudspeaker - that AR had essentially established.

Having parted with our last pair of restored AR-9 systems in favor of a panel design a couple of years back, I've come to better-appreciate the specific attributes of the older, compact 3-way AR speakers that were at their finest in portraying a wide stereo presentation while listening from a distance. As some here have previously observed, they are essentially musical in style, and reserved by nature. And although having a low rated impedance, they can still be satisfying with a very wide variety of amplifiers - tube, solid-state, vintage, and modern. This simplicity and graceful approach appeals to me, and for this reason makes the AR-3 or the 3a my choice as representative of the quintessential AR design.

Oh, and Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and a Happy New Year to all!

[Steve F]

This is a really tough topic. Half the people will cite their “favorite” AR speaker, the one they think is the “best-sounding.” Half will talk about the most influential, the one that really turned the industry around. And another half will try to ‘split the difference,’ and come up with a combination of great sound and representative influence. (Wait, that’s three halves….hmmmmm…..told you this was a tough topic!)

I will make a sweeping, generalized, arbitrary statement here and now: I will not consider anything after the original AR9. No 9LS or LSi, no Magic. Good speakers, but they don’t meet this definition as I choose to define it.

A very good case can be made for the AR-3. The original 12-incher with the industry’s first domes, great influence and respect for a decade, the Fine Arts Quartet Live v Recorded demos, those great, understated Villchur –written ads. I couldn’t argue too much. But it’s not my choice.

The AR-LST and AR9 are good possibilities. Arguably the ‘best’ of their day, still sound incredible even by today’s standards. Great speakers and great representatives of what AR engineering and innovation were all about.

Close—very close— but no cigar.

My choice is the AR-3a. You want to know everything good (and bad, too!), innovative and influential about the Classic AR sound and social/industry impact? It’s the 3a.

The technical good: no need to recite too much to youse guys; suffice to say the even-better ¾” and 1 ½” domes, the lower x-o frequencies and a more sophisticated approach than the 3. The great reviews from the Big Three audio mags. You all know the words to that song.

But let’s look at the societal and industry changes from the 3 to 3a—those are very significant. The 3a was intro’d in Dec 1967, which means that it was the first TOTL AR speaker bought by Baby Boomers (b. 1946-1964). Whereas the 3 was purchased mostly by “WWII/Korean War-vet suburban GE engineers living in split-level houses,” the 3a was purchased by their offspring as well. A new generation of buyers, the generation who’d end up being the biggest consuming generation of hi-fi gear of all time.

The 2^nd-gen Classic speakers starting with the 4x (’65), 3a (’67), 5 (’69), “new” 2ax/2x (’70), 6 (‘70), LST (’71) and 7 (’72) were bought as much by, if not more than, Baby Boomers as any other group. This means the 2^nd-gen Classics held a higher position/more visibility in the exploding stereo market than any other speakers.

So strong was the influence of 2^nd-gen AR speakers on the market, that non-AR dealers actually took to disparaging them and arranging deceiving demos to make AR look (sound) bad compared to brands like Advent and EPI.

Nonetheless, the 3a attained such a high-profile status in the marketplace that admirers and detractors alike placed it in a highly-visible position. Think of it: The AR-3a was one of precious few products in any industry to attain such notoriety (positive to its defenders, negative to its haters) that it was immediately recognized simply by its model number: 3a.

“What speakers do you have?”

“I’ve got 3a’s.”

No mention of “Acoustic Research” is necessary. That is influence and impact.

The 3a had the Classic AR sound: smooth, slightly recessed mids and highs, beautifully dispersed, and deep, almost magisterial bass. They had the look, with that 1”-wide picture frame molding, off-white linen grille cloth and the brass AR badge with de-bossed red lettering. They had those troublesome pots and the amusing three-terminal arrangement.

Everything that the Classic AR was—from sound to reputation to reviews to looks to bad treatment at retail to a new generation of buyers, that was the 3a.

Sure, all the other 2^nd-gen AR Classics embodied those traits also, but the 3a was the king, the big banana, the magnet of attention.

If I had to pick one and only one AR, it’s the 3a, hands down.

Steve F.

 

[harry398]

The Quintessential AR Speaker

This question is which speaker embodies AR the most.

I am in Total Agreement with Steve F.   AR3a

Steve Perfectly described it.

 

I will qualify myself as the  current owner of 11 different models of AR speakers currently.   I own the AR9, AR90, AR9lsi, AR98ls, AR98lsi, AR50 connoisseur, AR40 connoisseur, AR58bxi, AR11, AR5, and the AR3a.

I could go into describing each of them, but that is not the question.   For me, Steve answered the question, and answered it perfectly.

 

Merry Christmas.

 

 

[onplane]

As an original owner of a set of 3a's (and I still listen to this set frequently), I also agree with Steve's arguments. 

My only "twist" on this is that AR had a far, far more successful model in terms of units sold and that would be the 4x and it's various versions.

I believe it was Tom who stated that in terms of units sold the 4x (and it's versions) far, far surpassed any other model. In fact, I have a hypothesis here:  the AR-4x just might be the single most successful (in terms of units sold) speaker system of all time.

Regards,

Jerry

[Aadams]

On 12/23/2017 at 12:57 PM, Glitch said:

Another way of asking the question would be…  If you wanted to demonstrate a pair of AR speakers for the purpose of conveying the characteristic “AR sound signature”, which model (and year) would you choose?

Per the Original post. If you wanted to DEMONSTRATE----------------"for purposes of conveying the characteristic AR sound signature which would you choose?  If you had one chance to demonstrate the quintessential AR sound to a newbie and you could choose either a 3 or a 9 to sear the quintessential AR sound into newbie memory which would you choose and why? 

[harry398]

3a.  It's classic,simple and awesome in sound,clear with beautiful soft deep lows

 

And I own the ar9 and it's brother the ar90 which are incredible sounding speakers.  It's a totally different approach,  more clear (clearest I've ever heard) with deep lows.

 

The ar3a still wins, produced longer, was the pinacle in the arguably best period of the usa.....late 60''s to 70's....like the muscle car peak.

 

But that's my opinion.

[dxho]

2 hours ago, harry398 said:

3a.  It's classic,simple and awesome in sound,clear with beautiful soft deep lows

Even at very low levels.

I would also have mentioned the LST in there somewhere, but maybe that's just
AR envy. I actually listen most to two pair of 3as, AR -2 series much less
frequently.

[Steve F]

My only "twist" on this is that AR had a far, far more successful model in terms of units sold and that would be the 4x and it's various versions.

I believe it was Tom who stated that in terms of units sold the 4x (and it's versions) far, far surpassed any other model. In fact, I have a hypothesis here:  the AR-4x just might be the single most successful (in terms of units sold) speaker system of all time.

Regards,

Jerry

I know we're veering a bit off topic here, so I apologize in advance. I know from Advent's owner (who I worked with at BA for 11 years) that the original Large Advent sold about 200-250k units/year from 1970-75/6-ish. That's over a million units. Sure, not all OLAs were identical, but neither were all 4x's.

 

I'd hazard a guess that the KLH6 and 17 and the Dynaco A-25 also sold in very large numbers in that time span. But a million OLAs is going to be tough to beat. Remember, AR's sales were split among several successful models, whereas Advent had big sales and far fewer models.

 

Steve F.

[DavidDru]

Great responses above.  And I will throw in my response....in era's.  The AR3 established AR and defined so much for the brand and in the industry, as well as customer expectations from that point forward.  The 2nd era would have to be the AR9.  Both made huge statements.

[AR surround]

I'm solidly in the 3a camp.   I currently own the AR9, 90 and 915 and previously had the AR5, AR7 and 3a.   The AR9 is truly majestic and I would never part with it.   But the "quintessential" tag must go to the 3a if only because it was the AR speaker to have back in the day.   If you didn't have the 3a, it was because it was often too big, too expensive or needed bigger, costlier amps to get the best performance.

I've never had the pleasure of hearing the LST.   Regardless, it was a bit too exotic and made in too small quantities to be called "quintessential."

[lakecat]

If you take all emotion away and put it to paper....the AR3 is the winner. As a collectible, it is worth more than the other series....even the 9. That fact alone says the majority wins and gives it the title as the king of AR's....and the quintessential AR speaker.

[Glitch]

Thank you for all of the replies so far.  They have all been both insightful and interesting. 

On 12/24/2017 at 4:50 PM, Steve F said:

This is a really tough topic

I agree.  I had a hard time figuring out a reasonable way of asking the question.  This topic could go off in so many different tangents.  There are so many good posts to reply to that it is difficult to pick and choose what to comment on.

19 hours ago, AR surround said:

I've never had the pleasure of hearing the LST.   Regardless, it was a bit too exotic and made in too small quantities to be called "quintessential."

I was thinking along the same lines.  Picking the LST would be like saying the Ford GT is the quintessential Ford.  The GT is an awesome car and showcases Ford's technological prowess.  However, the Ford's quintessential title probably belongs to something like a F-150 or Taurus (or one of several other candidates).

On 12/24/2017 at 4:50 PM, Steve F said:

The AR-LST and AR9 are good possibilities. Arguably the ‘best’ of their day, still sound incredible even by today’s standards. Great speakers and great representatives of what AR engineering and innovation were all about.

and

On 12/24/2017 at 11:13 AM, Aadams said:

If I could have only one pair ------   The original AR 9 is the best all around

Compelling arguments can be made for the AR-9.  However, I'm wondering about if this falls into the same category as the LST and Ford GT?  Is it "too good" to be considered typical?

On 12/24/2017 at 4:50 PM, Steve F said:

If I had to pick one and only one AR, it’s the 3a, hands down.

The trend for the discussion appears to be favoring the AR-3a.  This is pretty much what I expected to hear.  Aside from all of the excellent arguments above, the 3a also seems to get the lion's share of the attention in most forums when it comes to discussions about AR speakers.  One could argue it's top status simply by majority rule. 

On 12/25/2017 at 5:56 PM, Aadams said:

 If you had one chance to demonstrate the quintessential AR sound to a newbie and you could choose either a 3 or a 9 to sear the quintessential AR sound into newbie memory which would you choose and why? 

This is a great way to summarize the first part of my question.

On 12/24/2017 at 11:13 AM, Aadams said:

My budget sleeper would be a 58s considering spare parts are still plentiful.

 

In the category of rare speakers for less than $250, excluding freight and if spare parts were not a consideration, then my budget sleeper would be a 78ls.

 

My ultimate sleeper, if you could find one, would be a 98ls because it is roughly the size of 91 with a 200hz crossover which gets female voices out of the woofer.  

This addresses the second part of my question.  Assuming that the AR-3a is the standard that one is try to meet, how close do these come to emulating the overall voicing?

I struggled on a way to phrase the second question and fell a bit short.  Another way of looking at this is...  How one would get 90% of the representative sonic character for 25% of the price? (feel free to adjust the percentages as you see fit)  Or...  If one couldn't find (or didn't want to pay the top dollar) for 3a's, what would you buy?

 

[ra.ra]

27 minutes ago, Glitch said:

How one would get 90% of the representative sonic character for 25% of the price?

Am unwilling to take a stab at adjusting the specific percentages, but as soon as you factor in low price, you move this discussion from the elite realm of the well-to-do and into the budget world of Everyman. With this in mind and thinking about the Ford analogy, I'd nominate the 1964 Ford Falcon - - - er, I mean the AR-4 and/or 4x. Compact product, high number of sales for many years, reliable product requiring infrequent maintenance, and proudly deserving to carry several characteristics of the TOTL models. Quintessential? Yes, I think so. Pic of unfinished pine and oiled walnut options attached.

[harry398]

Did they have a 427 falcon????

[harry398]

 

I prefer the thunderbolt. .

[Aadams]

2 hours ago, Glitch said:

How one would get 90% of the representative sonic character for 25% of the price? (feel free to adjust the percentages as you see fit)  Or...  If one couldn't find (or didn't want to pay the top dollar) for 3a's, what would you buy?

 

Not sure what "sonic character" means in this context but if the standard is a 3a and you are demonstrating to a newbie with recordings made after 1967 then you can't shed the last 2/3 to  1/2 octave of bass and retain 90% of the "sonic character".   My candidate would be a 58b, which is basically a 12" AR2ax, or an AR78LS, either one of which can be had for $250 and will pass a Lady Gaga test.  10" and 8" ARs would not pass the Gaga demo.

Adams

[genek]

I would count the 1, 3, 3a together, as they are evolutionary. 

[ra.ra]

2 hours ago, Aadams said:

My candidate would be a 58b......or an AR78LS...

Very nice models, for sure, but no vinyl clad bullnosed cabinet (58b) would pass my personal "quintessential" sniff test for AR speakers. I know the OP did not make any stipulations about styling, but for me this choice has to come from the Classic era when AR was riding high. Rectangular bookshelf type speaker, suitable for horizontal or vertical orientation, with real wood veneer and light-colored grille cloth. None of their later products ever came close to achieving this degree of aesthetic beauty for use in a domestic environment. 

3 hours ago, harry398 said:

I prefer the thunderbolt.

That beast definitely belongs in the Mods and Tweaks section, and besides, it looks more like a Chevy than a Ford.  

[ar_pro]

5 minutes ago, ra.ra said:

Very nice models, for sure, but no vinyl clad bullnosed cabinet (58b) would pass my personal "quintessential" sniff test for AR speakers. I know the OP did not make any stipulations about styling, but for me this choice has to come from the Classic era when AR was riding high. Rectangular bookshelf type speaker, suitable for horizontal or vertical orientation, with real wood veneer and light-colored grille cloth. None of their later products ever came close to achieving this degree of aesthetic beauty for use in a domestic environment. 

That beast definitely belongs in the Mods and Tweaks section, and besides, it looks more like a Chevy than a Ford.  

No vinyl cladding, ever.

1967 AR-3a = 1967 Corvette L71 427/435 

[JKent]

3 hours ago, Aadams said:

10" and 8" ARs would not pass the Gaga demo.

LOL Never heard of that one. I may have to give it a try. Any song in particular?

7 minutes ago, ar_pro said:

1967 AR-3a = 1967 Corvette L71 427/435 

I love it, ar_pro! Wonder how far the analogy applies. The '67 C2 'vette was very cool in its day but rather primitive by today's standards. Three decades later the C5 was world class (OK--I'll admit to a C5 prejudice  )

-Kent

[ra.ra]

24 minutes ago, ar_pro said:

1967 AR-3a = 1967 Corvette L71 427/435 

Great choices..... each reflects a timeless design quality that stood apart from the competition.