The Quintessential AR Speaker

[Aadams]

1 hour ago, ra.ra said:

I know the OP did not make any stipulations about styling, but for me this choice has to come from the Classic era when AR was riding high. Rectangular bookshelf type speaker, suitable for horizontal or vertical orientation, with real wood veneer and light-colored grille cloth.

If you limit your demo candidates to the AR Classic period, the only thing available that fits the 90-25 rule plus walnut and beige is a Large Advent.  Hundreds of thousands of them were purchased as perfectly adequate substitutes for the AR 3a.  

 

34 minutes ago, JKent said:

LOL Never heard of that one. I may have to give it a try. Any song in particular?

I am not generally a pop music fan but occasionally something catches my ear.   Lady Gaga,  "The Edge of Glory" .  When played on an AR 3a or an AR 9 beginning at 1:09 the bass seems like it is blanketing the floor.  AR 10" and 8" won't give the effect.  I doubt that a youtube file would be adequate for this.  You can hear it through good headphones.

Adams

[Glitch]

5 hours ago, Aadams said:

Not sure what "sonic character" means in this context but if the standard is a 3a and you are demonstrating to a newbie with recordings made after 1967 then you can't shed the last 2/3 to  1/2 octave of bass and retain 90% of the "sonic character".   My candidate would be a 58b, which is basically a 12" AR2ax, or an AR78LS, either one of which can be had for $250 and will pass a Lady Gaga test.  10" and 8" ARs would not pass the Gaga demo.

For me, in this context, "sonic character" is a (ineffective?) way of describing how the speaker is voiced.  This is the characteristic sound quality that makes a given speaker brand sound like that brand.  My assumption is that most of the AR speakers, especially of a given era, were voiced to be as similar as possible given the limitation of the speaker's design trade-offs.  In some of the other brands that I'm more familiar with, the "sonic character" is dominated by the performance in the mid-range frequencies.  For example, a cheaper model may give up 10 Hz of frequency response on the low end and a touch of high end clarity.  Suppose one played a recording that didn't contain or emphasize that frequency content.  If the speakers sounded essentially the same, they would meet the 90% criteria.

Your suggestions are the kind of information that I was hoping to get.  I've read about them in the past.  However, the descriptions usually aren't expressed relative to the context of this thread.

6 hours ago, ra.ra said:

I'd nominate the 1964 Ford Falcon - - - er, I mean the AR-4 and/or 4x

You gotta love the old Falcons.  It is a worthy candidate for it's era.  As far as the AR-4*'s are concerned...  How would you describe the voicing (sonic character) versus the 3a?  How much does the missing mid-range driver effect the magic of the overall sound character?

2 hours ago, ra.ra said:

I know the OP did not make any stipulations about styling

I wasn't considering styling to be a factor.  I'm more concerned about the way things sound.  I usually listen with my eyes closed or with the room dark.

2 hours ago, ra.ra said:

5 hours ago, harry398 said:

I prefer the thunderbolt.

That beast definitely belongs in the Mods and Tweaks section,

The coolness of this car is that it came with the mods and tweaks from the factory.  My vote is that it stays in the main forum

2 hours ago, ar_pro said:

1967 AR-3a = 1967 Corvette L71 427/435 

I have a daily driver, 327/300 version of that Corvette.  This is similar to what I was going for with the bargain speakers.  90% of the fun at 25% of the price.

 

[Aadams]

3 hours ago, Glitch said:

As far as the AR-4*'s are concerned...  How would you describe the voicing (sonic character) versus the 3a?  How much does the missing mid-range driver effect the magic of the overall sound character?

You asked about the 4x above but this thread from 2011 will give you some insight regarding AR 7 vs LST sonic signature.

 

[ra.ra]

18 hours ago, Glitch said:

How would you describe the voicing (sonic character) versus the 3a? 

I am possibly the worst person to try to describe these characteristics in words, but I fully agree with the brief catalog descriptions provided by AR for each of the models in the "4" series, as shown below. They are small and relatively simple two-way loudspeakers, and should not be expected to provide equivalent performance as other AR models which employ additional, larger, and more sophisticated drivers and crossovers in larger cabinet volumes. Nonetheless, many of these models employ similar or identical components and they all share a consistent design philosophy regarding musical reproduction.

18 hours ago, Glitch said:

I'm more concerned about the way things sound.  I usually listen with my eyes closed....

  Yeah, I cannot say that I have not listened this way as well, but I'm also particular about the visual qualities of my rooms when the music is off.

19 hours ago, Glitch said:

.....it came with the mods and tweaks from the factory.

Hey, that's pretty funny, and your vintage 'Vette was among one of its finest periods, IMO. 

 

[AR surround]

In today's lingo, AR would simply have said: "The AR4x doesn't suck."   Seriously, it was a fine loudspeaker in a compact package.  A friend has two pairs of them; one sitting around doing nothing, yet he refuses to sell it to me.

[ar_pro]

20 hours ago, Glitch said:

I have a daily driver, 327/300 version of that Corvette.  This is similar to what I was going for with the bargain speakers.  90% of the fun at 25% of the price.

We've had three over the years, and it's more like 125% of the fun at 10% of the price. 

That said, every Corvette owner I've ever met has a near-death-experience story to tell; at the very least, I've never had an AR speaker try to kill me!

 

 

[Glitch]

21 minutes ago, ar_pro said:

That said, every Corvette owner I've ever met has a near-death-experience story to tell; at the very least, I've never had an AR speaker try to kill me!

I've had more near death experiences with audio equipment than with the Corvette.  With the audio equipment, it is usually occurs when my wife finds out about the purchase. 

[onplane]

1 hour ago, AR surround said:

In today's lingo, AR would simply have said: "The AR4x doesn't suck."   Seriously, it was a fine loudspeaker in a compact package.  A friend has two pairs of them; one sitting around doing nothing, yet he refuses to sell it to me.

I realize I am veering a little off topic, but if I had a friend with a pair of AR-4x's, I would "suggest" a stacking experiment.

Since the 4's are 8 ohms, most decent amps could handle them in parallel.   Has anyone ever tried this?

Regards,

Jerry

[samberger0357]

I've had 3's and 3a's, which I loved, but for various reason sold both. I'd still love to own a pair of 3's in the future, but for now I own a pair of early 2ax's with the cloth surround, and find them to be very close to their big brothers, sonically, at least  IN MY SYSTEM. A lot of bass and more then enough high end for my needs, and they sound great with lower powered vintage tube gear, something obviously the 3/3a's had more difficulty with. For that reason alone, I would probably choose them over the 3's/3'a's.  Presently have them teamed up with both a Fisher X100-B(24 watts) and Fisher 500C(35 watts) and they sound amazing with both.  So great, in fact, that I have difficulty rotating them out to use my Klipsch Cornwalls.  And so great, that while I would love to own a pair of 3's/3a's again at some point, I'm not sure how they would replace the 2ax's.  And of course, they have the great AR classic good looks. The 2ax's will be with me forever. 

[frankmarsi]

1 hour ago, samberger0357 said:

I've had 3's and 3a's, which I loved, but for various reason sold both. I'd still love to own a pair of 3's in the future, but for now I own a pair of early 2ax's with the cloth surround, and find them to be very close to their big brothers, sonically, at least  IN MY SYSTEM. A lot of bass and more then enough high end for my needs, and they sound great with lower powered vintage tube gear, something obviously the 3/3a's had more difficulty with. For that reason alone, I would probably choose them over the 3's/3'a's.  Presently have them teamed up with both a Fisher X100-B(24 watts) and Fisher 500C(35 watts) and they sound amazing with both.  So great, in fact, that I have difficulty rotating them out to use my Klipsch Cornwalls.  And so great, that while I would love to own a pair of 3's/3a's again at some point, I'm not sure how they would replace the 2ax's.  And of course, they have the great AR classic good looks. The 2ax's will be with me forever. 

I'd just like to say.......

[samberger0357]

2 minutes ago, frankmarsi said:

I'd just like to say.......

 

 

FWIW the 3's and 3a's sounded great also with lower power tube amps too,  but yes, ultimately they do better with lots of watts. 

 

There. Happy? 'Tis the holiday season, after all. 

 

 

[Sonnar]

My musical preferences are for classical, baroque and electric '70s funk/jazz like Miles Davis " Big Fun " and my vote is for AR 3. 

The reason is,  AR 3 is a more complete speaker than 3a, has a more linear frequency response and very sparkling and detailed highs while 3a has a noticeable roll off . AR 10 Pi is a bit " honky " to me, and later Teledyne production is too bright sounding. 

The AR 3 isn't a muted speaker, but You have to choose the right amplifier: weak tubes or old vintage SS amps aren't the better way to listen this marvelous sounding speaker. 

Recently I suggested to an unsatisfied professional musician friend (saxophone) who has a very expensive hi-end system to buy a pair of AR 3. We found a nice pair, some scratches on the furniture but loudspeakers and x-overs are ok ( I 'm a magician in founding AR 3, I have four of them in excellent working conditions ). The first impression of my friend was " it's my sound! It 's the sound of music! " 

Villchur's AR 3 are musical instruments for musicians. Other speakers are only good or excellent loudspeakers. 

The picture shows the african mahogany AR 3 after restoration by another friend from south of Italy, he 's younger than classic AR lover, 40 years old, but has fine ears.

Best wishes and Happy New Year! 

 

Adriano 

 

[harry398]

Mr Sonnar

 

Yes those are beautiful.   Very.

I do notice the hard surfaces,  sort of like my garage.  My 3a are there,  and I love them.  I find the midrange is awesome.

Hope I find a set of 3''s to evaluate.

Enjoy!

[GD70]

I have both the 3's, and 4x's. Both are excellent, but the 3's are amazing. I've restored several sets of 3a's, and have A/B'd them, and to my ears, and the 3a owners ears, the 3's won every time. They just seem more cohesive. The 3a's were more forward in the mids, but almost sounded more hollow if that can describe the difference to the 3's mids, which seem richer. One set of my 3's have restored mids that Roy did, and the improvement is astonishing. 

I hope to hear the 9's some day, but for me, the quintessential AR is the 3.

Glenn

[harry398]

You got some nice stuff there glenn.

The 9 and 90 are exceptional, good luck finding!      They certainly don't get the premium they deserve,  most likely it's their size.    The 90 is about as tall as a 3 /3a on a stand...........but wives can nag I guess??? Lol!!!     Not mine, I got 9,9lsi,90 in the living room.

 

The 3 gets the most premium, it's true.  That's a statement

 

[Joel]

I own both AR9's and AR3's.  My daughter has the pair of AR90's I bought when they first came out.   I also have pairs of AR-4x, Advent NLA and KLH-20.  They are all fully restored.  The AR-3 mids were restored by Roy.

The AR3's are vastly superior over my other desktop speakers.  In a smaller room, at low to medium volume, they are so smooth they just draw you in.  There is something that is so real about their presentation that my other speakers just don't have.

The AR9's are in a completely different league from the others.  It's not even close.  I listen to my other speakers, but I experience the AR9's.  They are in a bigger room, and they are so enveloping.  The sound stage and depth is enormous.  They so effortlessly at any volume you want to listen.  I often have to turn my head at the sound coming from behind, only to realize it is coming from the speakers. 

As much as I love my AR3's, when I listen to them, it just makes me want to go in the other room and listen to my 9's.

-Joel

 

[GD70]

On December 30, 2017 at 6:10 PM, harry398 said:

You got some nice stuff there glenn.

The 9 and 90 are exceptional, good luck finding!      They certainly don't get the premium they deserve,  most likely it's their size.    The 90 is about as tall as a 3 /3a on a stand...........but wives can nag I guess??? Lol!!!     Not mine, I got 9,9lsi,90 in the living room.

 

The 3 gets the most premium, it's true.  That's a statement

 

Thanks Harry! You too have an impressive line up and all in one listening space!

I was lucky to find both sets of 3's, one in a S.A. For 19.99, and a GW, for 50.00! Both needed to be restored but that's part of the fun!

[stan461]

I've found the AR2AX to be a better balanced speaker and much easier to work with than the 3 or 3A. So I'm restoring the AR2AX's. Same characteristic AR sonic signature as the 3 & 3A with less bass. Of course, I'm not stating any principles, just opinions after many years of owning all 3 models. I'm guessing, after years of reading these threads, that the  AR9 is the

Quintessential AR Speaker

[sphotoz]

I would think that AR's quintessential speaker, of or relating to the most perfect embodiment of something, is the AR-9.  I think AR's defining or signature speaker is the AR-3/3a

[Joel]

3 hours ago, sphotoz said:

I would think that AR's quintessential speaker, of or relating to the most perfect embodiment of something, is the AR-9.  I think AR's defining or signature speaker is the AR-3/3a

I would agree with this statement.

-Joel

[AR surround]

12 hours ago, sphotoz said:

I would think that AR's quintessential speaker, of or relating to the most perfect embodiment of something, is the AR-9.  I think AR's defining or signature speaker is the AR-3/3a

How about this:

The AR3/3a is the quintessential AR speaker; and the AR9 is the epitome of AR speakers.   But now this, Frank, is the Holy Grail: 

[frankmarsi]

1-4-17
It is true my system is of biblical proportions and sound quality. And for those who truly 
know what excellent sound really is and for the ‘real’ AR aficionados of many decades like myself who would easily agree the AR-LST is the ‘Holy-Grail’.

And I sayeth unto thee, for those mere mortal AR4x, AR2ax, AR 3, forgive them for they know not what they say.

For my system is the kingdom of all AR speakers and not shall anything less than my AR-LST’s be king.

Heavy is the head that wears the crown.