frankmarsi

The most important in addition to proper room placement and high-quality input sources is to use two separate power amps that are matched. Two amplifiers that are equal in power and ideally the same manufacturer. See example below. https://community.classicspeakerpages.net/topic/10649-do-ar-speakers-really-sound-that-good-more-new-video/

Using AR-LST's on a budget? Is it possible? I say no. I myself, do not endorse 'chip-amps' that are made for powering 'bass-bins' and house PA systems. I'm not familiar with that pre-amp as it was made during AR's 'sell-out' defunct era. However, I'm sure the many scholars out there will give you their suggestions even if they typically have systems that might be less than truly listenable. Simply put, what sort of system did you ultimately what to have? How close to 'real' do you want your music to sound? You'll need a good plan for sure. Many slap AR speakers together with any old amplifier/receiver and are content with something that's not the best they could do. Some think and even insist their speakers sound good on the floor, others insist on using long expired phono cartridges that resemble a dull shaving razor, poor quality interconnects and cheap speaker wire that one would tie up fire wood together with, or a low-end CD player that isn't any better than a 1980 walkman, are the way to go? NOT! Some are emboldened by the mere fact that they have AR's, and pay no mind to rest of the system and do not pursue the best levels their system could be. AR-LST's are super-power hungry so that 'chip-amp' will hold you until you upgrade to a more suitable pre-amplifier/amp combination while keeping in mind that you'll ultimately need more quality. Also, LST's require specific room-placement or can be slighted if not addressed. What will your sources be. How is the room situated, what are its dimensions? Your best option is to do your own research and for the most part it's not advisable to find credence in the words of certain folks who are not familiar with AR-LST's or have minimal experience with a system's proper set-up or room placement. My suggestion is to spend time on the web and search the forums which describe better and higher-end systems while absorbing what you can from there. Understand the web opened the flood-gates to everybody and their cousins who are mostly 'johnny come lately' types and only parrot what they've read elsewhere in the last couple of years while speaking as if they're experts. These less than intelligent individuals lurk around here and on other sites, primarily A.K. AR-LST's were AR's 'capital-ship', their crowning glory of the whole AR line at that time, these speakers deserve the best one can possibly do to allow them to sound their ultimate best. System planning is pivotal and of course, the best plans will render the best results. Ultimately you have to ask yourself the question: Am I worthy of AR-LST's and do I deserve them? Will I set them up as they were meant to be? FM

Thanks for that compliment "briodo" and coming from a member that's been here since 2006, that says many things to me. Regarding my comment on how some others that have chosen the route of besmirching my posts instead of praising my systems they must be fuming. The irony here is it's always individuals with lesser set-ups, and some with ,lesser experience in setting up a 'real' quality system. On another note, regarding driving those two similar though different speakers, I have to agree can be fun to a degree. A number of years ago, I connected four AR-3a's to two Phase Linear PL-400 amplifiers so, all components were identical. I found the pairing to be somewhat bass heavy and 'thick' sounding, so I chose not to go forward with it. A note-worthy member on this forum also admitted to this tendency occurring but, perhaps with these two models you speak of you might have better results. Just keep in mind when speakers are 4 ohms, it could stress even the most hardy of amplifiers and fusing is recommended. It would prove to be a learning experience in any event, just don't play too loudly no matter how good it might sound. I believe that amp you refer to has a inboard cooling fan. Ultimately, it would always be better to use two identical amps. So, good luck with all that and I'm sure all here would like to hear of your results.

briodo, “Next on the bucket list is make like Frank Marsi and stack them. That should be fun”. That’s a nice idea and fun to do but, to do so correctly for maximum sound quality you’d need two separate matching amplifiers and all speakers should be identical also. When I was a very young teenager and playing in a band, we would stack our guitar amplifiers together with none of them matching and it would always sound like crap. I even attempted to do so with the few speaker cabinets I built in the mid 1960’s and again, the easiest drive-able speaker was the loudest and it sucked with the bigger speaker hardly doing anything and the smaller speaker being over driven. I see guys all over A.K. and here stacking speakers of different ohm-age, size, and usually with one amp and I’m certain the sound quality is awful. That is such a novice way to do things. Traditionally the best approach is to have matching speakers otherwise using two mismatched speakers will in essence provide only the lowest common denominator of the two combined. Certainly not the best way if one strives for the best of sound quality and is just plain silly. I use four matching AR-LSTs with two separate matching Phase Linear Series II PL-700 that output about 700 watt RMS per-channel X’s four (2800watts), matching cables to the amps, matching speaker wire size (12AWG) and the sound quality rendered, is beyond what many here have ever experienced or ever will. I was astonished and overly thrilled the first time I heard it myself, I realized that I've finally arrived and that my system was super-special and beyond most others. I know, I know, I'm bragging but, I deserve it as I've been an AR speaker user for almost 50 years and it's taken me that many years to get to this place of audio greatness, good-gosh!!! I've got the four AR-LST's and super-high power feeding them! Relatively speaking, it's a mega-system. Sadly, I suspect my system is partly why some here despise me beyond my original NYC attitude and way of speaking. Obviously, sometimes human tendencies are difficult to suppress but, easy to recognize. They're not my concern so, let my detractors continue being whatever they want to be, I haven't a care. After all of this concern, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the set-up of my turntable's tonearms and my concern of seeking out quality phono-cartridges, not to forgetting my strong belief in cleaning my vinyl disks with an ultrasonic cleaning regiment. I am a firm believer that the quality of input sources is equally as important as the end is, in this case the speakers. It seems many only think that if they have AR speakers at the end of the audio-chain that they're listening to quality audio however, it's every link in that chain that counts. I'll laugh all the way to my seating position and I'll continue to be amazed every time I put a vinyl disk on, full well knowing that I've done everything I can to keep that chain strong. Other than that, it looks like you're doing a smashing job on the restoration. Continue enjoying yourself with AR speakers. FM

I'm seasoned and I've had more time to have fun everyday in doing whatever I do my whole life through. Additionally, I've had more time listening to AR speakers than I've been on this site and I've been here since 2004. I'm no johnny-come-lately like some folks who only have discovered these speakers in the last 10 or 15 years. I bought my AR-3a's brand new in '71. As I've stated, I learned about room placement, input set-up, and system-building before I purchased my AR's 50 years ago. I wear medals on my chest and stripes on my sleeves. From what you've stated, it seems you're not far behind.

Not sure but, he's got a whole bunch of stereo stories. And I hear that in about 6 months or so he will celebrating his 'Golden Jubilee', for a 50th anniversary of using and listening to AR speakers.

bhart, they're in the USA, here's one: 383452605809 Heres's the other: 333268278769 Good luck, let me know if you purchase.

There's two on eB_y right now.

MikeD & JKent. SEE LINK:

8-11-2020 Although I lusted for AR-5 speakers in the late 1960s a couple of years prior to buying my first set of AR-3a’s in 1971, I thought if they haven’t seen the article already this is a good read. This is about a Dynaco amplifier so, I also direct it to “potty-mouth”, “%#*@ing contest over who has the fanciest/costliest gear.” *JKent who I believe still uses one of these amplifiers. I still have my original that I built from kit form in mid- 1971 which I had to rebuild several times until I finally gave up on it and in late 1974 bought my first Phase Linear PL-400 which changed for the better my whole world of hi-fi. And although I've had a not-too-good experience with this ST-120 amplifier years ago, this article has renewed my opinions for the better. Getting back to the Dyna ST-120 which I was so excited about building back then. For “Dynaco’ it was their first transistor model along with their ST-80 and had numerous positive reviews in all the current magazines back then, sadly it was a total failure for me on many levels. First off, up to a certain level it only went so far powering my newly purchased AR-3a’s before it ran out of steam at 67 watts RMS per-channel, and then it blew out every time I pushed it during inspired listening sessions. After I replaced the power transistors, it repeatedly destroyed the tweeters so many times, I lost count and AR replaced those tweeters many, many times. AR was very kind in this respect back then in the early 1970's. Dynaco had sent me the two main power transistor boards so often in addition to the power-supply board I simply quit messing with it out of frustration and moved on with the Phase Linear PL-400 amplifier which I had intensely been researching. It was reported to have a far superior quality sound quality and offered a day and night comparison, and they were absolutely correct. Finally I was on the road to true high-fidelity and using super high power which was relatively a new phenom in those days. Many new comers to vintage Hi-Fi have no idea what a revelation such high power was to high fidelity at the time. It wasn’t until I opened my business in late 1977 and used my 3a’s as front channels with my Phase Linear PL-4000 pre-amp and the PL-400 power-amp that I needed another amp for the back channels. The PL-4000 pre-amp had the derived/pseudo/quasi four channel ability. I needed a second amp for the rear channels so I excitedly went hunting for another amp for the rear. I went to the “Stereo-Exchange”, their first store located on West 8th. Street and Sixth Ave. the same streets the “Stones” mention in one of their songs on ‘Emotional Rescue’ and there I found another ST-120. Bernie, the owner had a used one that was factory built so, I trusted that it would be all right and at $89.00 with the brown cage which meant it was even older than mine which had the black cage. I carried it out the door happily. I hooked everything up, using my AR-2ax’s for the rears and I discovered that the PL-4000 alleged four-channel because it really wasn't four channel was such a huge disappointment because in actuality it only sent thru ‘ambient’ information into the rear channels. That rear-channel information was so low in volume and wasn’t helped by the ST-120 low wattage compared to the PL-400 in the front that the only record that was enjoyable was the “Hendrix” ‘Electric-Lady-Land’ album which had tons of ambient information on it. Plus the room was so big at 35' X 22' with 12 foot ceilings that the little Dynano amp was struggling at 67 watts per side at max. Over all, it wasn't very convincing and rather disappointing. Who knows at some point I may set-up a mini system and add it to my AR-4X's though, I still have my late 1967 Dynaco ST-35 I could use for those. Regarding the Stereoph__e test review linked below, I was pleased to read the positive comments nonetheless. https://www.stereophile.com/content/dynaco-stereo-120-transistor-power-amplifier * https://community.classicspeakerpages.net/topic/9747-i-just-wish-members-here-would-show-us-photos-of-their-set-ups-and-listening-rooms/

@ "Arken" "Once that AR bug gets you lol In response to a new member, you've said it so here's a condensed version of my pursuit! Since my first listen to an Acoustic Research speaker in 1966(an AR-4), I have been on an all-out quest to have and enjoy the best stereo/hi-fi for a middle-class 16 year older to reach. Back then my only two favorite hobbies were building up my body and playing the guitar in a popular local band. I had to wait till I came out of the military a few years later at 20 years old, was I old enough to afford AR speakers. In late1967 (@ 17 yrs. old), I built the cheapest acceptable alternatives ‘hi-fi’ amplifiers with a Dynaco ST-35 amp and a PAS-3X pre-amp but, I still wasn’t able to afford AR speakers but while 16 yrs. old, I built 3 different size cabinets with raw speakers, they sucked. At 20 yrs. old and after military discharge I went into college and I was able to work at small jobs to make spending money to take my girl out, buy text-books and save a little on the side for my big plans to purchase either AR-5’s or the big boy AR-3a’s. By 1971 I saved enough to buy AR-3a’s. I upped the wattage with a Dynaco ST-120 kit I built and a new turntable, the AR-Xa by 1972. The system sounded inadequate with just the ST-35 of course. By 1974, I started working in Manhattan again and saved enough to buy into the true amount of watts honestly needed to run the AR-3a, a Phase Linear 400 with 400 watts RMS per-side and a few weeks later I strapped on 'Micro-Statics. I was in audio heaven and though I was running a S.S. power amp, I still was using my PAS-X, they were a good pair together except for the pre-amp's tube-hiss. Due to the fact that tubes are inherently noisy, I wanted as much operational quiet playback as I could get. I stretched my budget and bought a new Phase LInear 4000 pre-amp. And as quiet as that pre-amp was and is, that level of quiet made me want to upgrade my input source, my rumbling AR-Xa was now up for replacement as was my prized Shure M91ED and Empire 999se/x. I was compelled to upgrade to better sound. In came a Micro-Seiki TD-55 direct drive turntable with a Shure V-15 Type III and now my system was newly considered top-grade as those two items were responsible for a major difference and changed everything for the best. To repeat that was in 1974 and I was king of the hill compared to what every one of my friends were listening to. I sat with that system from that point on because I was busy pursuing a new career and money was once again difficult to come by. However in the back of my mind, I knew I was lacking the ‘ultimate system’ that I had in mind. As an early subscriber/ reader of the main three hi-fi magazines back then (have been reading Stereoph__e & TAS since later '80s) when the AR-LST’s were released in1972 they never left my mind's day dreams and desire. Unfortunately the LST's were just too expensive and in turn became a future plan. Fast forward to late 1987 when I was blessed to acquire five AR-LST’s from which I condensed that number into four high-performing LST’s as one out the five was very banged up but, I stripped it of all drivers, and X-over. By 2009 I acquired two very high-powered Phase Linear Series II PL-700 amplifiers and I realized my system was the best it has ever been. CD quality wasn't giving me enough and was lacking what I knew LP's already had so, I once again started studying the world of better tonearms, tables and cartridges even more than I had all those years before as I knew therein was the secret to better sound. So no, I’m not a novice to this field and I’ve learned gobs of ‘Hi-Fi’ information and I have loads of experience and that has always kept me as a strong AR speaker fan. Even though I've experimented in several other areas, my speaker of choice has since their release in 1972 has been the AR-LST, period. And one better four of them at the same time and with high-powered amplifiers. No second guessing here! This is big-time vintage AR speaker nirvana. At present, that whole experience set me upon a course of even greater and more realistic sounding high-fidelity. That history culminated in learning the many large differences in phonography, room-placement, table and cartridge set-up, cabling, and ultrasonically cleaned vinyl. It all has opened up a whole new world of listening pleasure. P.S. If you listen to the videos linked below understand unless one has a good computer speaker set-up and soley relies upon tiny barely there inboard speakers you won’t be hearing anything much. As a person who is enamored with music I use a half way decent speaker set-up comprised of a 5” sub-woofer and two 31/2” mid/high range front speakers for my computer. With anything less such as no external woofer and inadequate sized front speakers one will not have an idea of how good this sounds. P.S.II If some one loved AR-3a's as much as I did and suddenly AR Corporation said their new specialty high-performance latest of the latest model is better, anyone would want, dream of owning, and listening to them as a high-point in enjoying a life of high-fidelity music reproduction. If I could back in time and bring forth my close friends back in the early 1970s, they'd tell you what a AR-3a devotee I was, and for years if someone asked me what speakers to buy, I'd always recommend AR-3a's. That all changed when I had the good fortune to acquire four LSTs after 18 years of being a AR-3a user. Oh yeah, I forgot to address the poster, my favorite speakers are four AR-LST's with high power and super-clean vinyl while using everything to bring that equation to a high-point in the vintage realm. https://community.classicspeakerpages.net/topic/10649-do-ar-speakers-really-sound-that-good-more-new-video/ https://community.classicspeakerpages.net/topic/9747-i-just-wish-members-here-would-show-us-photos-of-their-set-ups-and-listening-rooms/

The next best thing besides playing my glorious AR-LST listening system is to actually play a musical instrument during a stay @ home. Playing a musical instrument always endorses that my system is sounding realistic and affords the ability to compare just how accurate the system is actually reproducing real musical tones.

Above was the first word three years ago on good available tweeters since the ABT type and HiVi type first gave any sort of hope. FM

Extra Reading: Strangest feelings as I stood approximately 2000 feet away and watched the second jet plane hit tower number one while I was stranded in place I then watched tower number one collapse, about an hour later. As I was being covered with white dust and then black dust and the ground vibrating beneath my feet from the collapse I thought of walking on Cortland St. back in the early and late 1960’s as I did so many times. At that same moment I had the memory cross my mind of the wrecking ball actually knocking down those old apartment buildings that were used as stores on the first floors for all that electronic stuff and thought gee, this is twice that I’m watching that block of buildings being knocked down. And while witnessing and thinking of that profound situation unravel in front of me, I knew the world would never be the same again. Extra Reading: https://www.qcwa.org/radio-row.htm

"Canal St. was where you went if you wanted things like motors and such, Cortlandt if you wanted electronics." Exactly right.

Hi DonT, after living most of my life in the big city, it taught me much about the rest of the world however, more often than not, I wish I did grow-up on a farm as I believe it builds good people. I met countless folks who knew nothing but farm life while I was in the military so I have an idea. My father did but across the ocean. The big city has the best of the best and the worse of the worse, I learned that early on. Thought, if you wanted a big selection of anything available in life, you couldn't beat the city. These days to me the city is merely a shadow of what it once was and many I know who have similar experiences, would agree. it's better history is being kept alive by the media and hollywoodville only, it's not like it was and had it's last days of glory in the late 1980's. I have friends that still live there and say it's like being in a third-world city, only worse. Though, I would never dismiss the city life and its ability to teach certain aspects of life for some reason I think a 'natural-life' in the country might be best for most of us. Good luck with your speakers though for maximum enjoyment, I would recommend hooking-up additional high-frequency drivers to supplement areas those speakers may be lacking in. I'm also a believer in driving low-efficiency speakers with higher than normal amplifier power. The AR2 line of speakers would benefit with judiciously used 150-200 WPC plus for realistic sound levels. P.S. with this current virus problem it's best to stay as far away from cities as possible.

An obviously cynical and jealous remark by the preceding poster, LOL

I grew up in the big city unlike many here. LOL. I was on Cortland Street almost every lunch hour I had as my first job on Wall Street in 1967 allowed me to be in that area. If you were into electronics back then (?), maybe you can imagine the great fun that was? Between the my ages of 9 years and eleven years old, my father had already taken me there several times so I would know where to go to buy electronic stuff such as tubes and other goodies that he was into as he was a old radio ‘fixer-up-per’ from the late 1940’s into the 1960’s. He was on a very limited budget and fixed many discarded tube radios he would find and bring home. Actually, I believe yous guys were not members here yet and probably still enjoying your Radio Shack Optimus III speakers and receivers LOL. I covered most of that whole story on this site over 13 years ago, I guess yous guys missed it. Canal Street also was a main hub for anything electrical though, mostly odd lots of junk like those old capacitors shown which could be found almost everywhere back then but. Cortland had hi-fi and stereo stuff so it commanded my attention even more. Anyway I bought my first raw speaker cabinets there in late 1967 and began my journey with a target of someday owning AR speakers and Crown amps. Back then Crown was mostly known for their excellent 10 inch tape recorders but their early D300 was one of the first S.S. available until Phase LInear entered the field and knocked out Crown mercilessly. The photos shown above of those old capacitors are very familiar to me as when I was in the USN, we would throw out large numbers of them because they were being phased out of stock.

If you intend to show members what you are using or care to comment please do. I'd show more but, as I've stated, enthusiasm seems to be nil. I'm considering taking down my videos and text as not many here seem to be interested in making any worthwhile comments or showing their set-ups.

Chris Zizzo may have the winning ticket? https://www.amazon.com/Reclosable-Fastener-SJ3560-Household-Scissors/dp/B083M9Q1N3/ref=asc_df_B083M9Q1N3/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=416852451827&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13370426752815427082&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9003676&hvtargid=pla-872832071678&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=99283606972&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=416852451827&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13370426752815427082&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9003676&hvtargid=pla-872832071678 These strips hopefully will be able to be cut down in size to apply a minimum of contact points facilitating ease of removal and install of grills. Beyond the fact of whether or not they'd work, the fear may be when taking them off with the delicate frames on the AR-3's breaking or even the masonite on my AR-3a's as masonite can be brittle. Looking at the different views of it, it might be too thick? If it is, it may push out the grills too far to look good. Uh-oh, hey Chris, let me see that ticket again. FM

For a 'real' work-out, two of these in full time use do it for me every time. I have the full wood cabinets for everyone of my components but, they retain heat unnecessarily.

The best reason I have found to use P.E. surrounds is that a number of years ago they spoke of an additive used in their foam formula that promotes longevity. I've been using these for over 12 years now and have never experienced any problems or issues. I have yet to have one of theirs disintegrate or wear due to my hard driving of the AR 12 inch woofer. The very high power I use has not revealed or shown any signs of wear, fatigue or growing thin from much extension and flexing. Be it from strong powerful classical music to hard driving rock and also jazz. As a side note, I used one of the first 'joined' surrounds which was the only available surround as long ago as 1990 and to my knowledge there weren't any other sources at that time. I started using P.E. surrounds when I became aware of them and can highly recommend their product. FM

2-23-20 Although I’m quite satisfied with the whole system, barely any room for improvement other than trying out different vintage high-quality tone arms and modern higher echelon cartridges. Pictured below on the left of foto during preliminary testing, measuring and tentative set-up is a mint condition “Fidelity-Research” FR-54 tone arm. If you know the name, you’ll know that they’re very high quality and rare in the USA market, though this particular model is popular in Japan. At this early stage, things are basically ‘roughed-in’ but, the mounting distance seems to be spot-on thus-far. On the right side of foto is one of my many and favorite S.M.E. 3009 Series II 9 inch arms with a split-counter-weight mounted with a “Gull-Wing” by Benz-Micro cartridge and “Orsonic’ headshell which is my most prized and costly cartridge expenditure to date, even more than my four AR-LSTs combined. If all goes well, I’ll be able to continue with what I like to call, ‘listener-tailoring’ of choosing the best suited cartridge for whatever record I’d be listening to. All this effort will also add a fourth vinyl input to be used at any moment’s desire with merely a flick of a switch on my two step-up transformers. Being a vinyl lover I have at my disposal the choice of how I want a vinyl disk to ultimately sound. That flexibility can only be enjoyed when using vinyl, of course. So, until I begin to apply and measure with the necessary protractors and other measuring devices to exactly dial-in this new to me tone arm, it’s still a work in progress however, I have big expectations of great sound in keeping with the rest of the system. FM

So sad how no one can admit how good this video does sound. To me it sounds excellent! But I digress, when I posted how good mine system sounds, it was also dismissed. Beyond the fact that it is scaled down in size, this video displays an excellent sounding system. It is imperative that one has good computer playback speakers. Inboard desk-top and lap top speakers cannot allow one to have an indication of how good this really sounds.