frankmarsi

"I haven't stacked them, or placed Microstatic array tweeters on top of them." Who does that?

If one has items that are no longer produced, one must have a constant eye on the auction site. Here are a couple of options. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1312.R2.TR10.TRC4.A0.H0.XAR+speaker+.TRS2&_nkw=AR+speakers+badges&_sacat=293&LH_TitleDesc=0&_sop=10&_osacat=293&_odkw=AR+speakers

DavidR, that would be one way to go as the AR-3a 12” cone is specially damped and of sufficient weight to give us the renown AR bass phenomenal sound we all lust after if you’re of the type that can discern and appreciate these qualities. However, not being familiar with the newer replacement voice-coil or if, it would lend itself in such fashion of glueing the new VC to the older cone. I’ve handled the newer replacement ‘Tonegen’ briefly and the cone doesn’t seem as damped or as thick and heavy as the original certainly, so much for maintaining originality. Though it’ll work and most can’t discern the difference anyway, I only chose the full replacement with an original vintage and previously used driver as being the most successful. Unfortunately Stephen is in a spot where shipping charges are introducing difficulty. Stephen would be better off searching the local ads in newspapers or frequenting good-will types of outlets often to acquire one and just getting a ‘parts-donor’ and then refoam it to spec. It’s gotta be the ‘Three Little Pigs’ scenario all over again. Stephen may be a very nice person and all but, I’m not parting with a single spare driver of mine as I’ve been suggesting acquiring spares since I’ve been on this site going back to 2004. I only came here originally much like he is and asking if there was a replacement tweeter for my four "LST" and two A-3a speakers and have used all possible alternatives in acquiring a sizable collection since. I've done the same with turntables, tonearms and other soon to be scarce and forgotten items also. These days with six LSTs, two 9s and six 3as, I'm always on the alert even though I have plenty of spare drivers to repopulate each of them. It's what I do as I think of these speakers are for the rest of my days. As it is, I've owned my first 3as for 49 years which is probably more time than the age of half of the members here. Go figure. It's also what I call 'the Noah's scenario' as I have a major sized stock-pile of midranges, tweeters, and woofers, and amplifiers. How could I not as I've chosen big AR speakers as life-partners in the enjoyment of music, who is more dedicated than me? These speakers are here for my 'forever'. This is part and parcel of vintage speaker enjoyment and it also typifies any sort of other collection of prized and unique items in this lifetime. FM

Stephen, like I mentioned, 'recone' is the last option if cost doesn't permit buying used. https://www.simplyspeakers.com/acoustic-research-speaker-recone-kit-ar3-ar9-ar11-rk-ar11.html https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=3qctXu3rDYac5wKeoqnwCA&q=reconing+kits+for+loudspeakers&oq=Recone+Kits&gs_l=psy-ab.1.6.0l2j0i22i30l3j0i22i10i30j0i22i30l4.1480.1480..5825...0.0..0.58.58.1......0....2j1..gws-wiz.C_kKQehrd50 FM

Stephen, removing the dust cap will not give you access to anything other than the magnet shaft/pole-piece and the voice-coil around it, nothing you can fix in there. It's best to buy a used woofer as I've mentioned. Open a conversation line with the seller before bidding and continue if it appears that you are winning. There were a couple just the other day for $150. for both plus shipping. There's another issue, 'shipping'. On one occasion I've had a disaster and I ended fighting with the seller until he reluctantly accepted them back for a refund. That's why it I always converse with the seller as many don't really have any concept of how the safely ship them. Common sense isn't so common anymore, believe it, it's true! Question: "Does the test I did connecting signal leads to the terminals and then to the tinsel wire lead itself rule this out?" FM: no, it's no indication, you'd have to reach your fingers around and behind the terminal block and feel if the those two wires have been broken off or are making only partial contact. It's obvious it has been reformed by it's age in service. The problem I mentioned with broken leads were the leads were a bit short in manufacture and in my usual fashion of pumping in high wattage to attain 'realistic' volume levels in turn making the cone reach its furthest excursion was how mine broke loose and was at times making contact while other times it did not. That was two weeks of hell trying to figure it out. I believe RoyC." and I came about the answer here at the same time. "In your opinion, how do these compare, when used in this particular speaker/crossover combination, compared to the HiVi Q1R 1-1/8" Textile Dome Tweeter mentioned by IARybody previously?" FM: The "Vifa" line of raw speakers are excellent, if I'm not mistaken, I've heard they no longer sell raw drivers to consumers, only to the trade, I could be wrong though. I had also looked at the "Vifa" tweeters in that price range before the HiVi Q1R appeared but, pondering the cost of 16 of them for my 4 LSTs at the time a no-go besides, I don't recall but I think they were either a little too big of too small for the AR hole. The HiVi Q1R is the first useable tweeter that RoyC. tested and proved to be useable in ARs. Regarding the cross-over configuration, that is something best answered by RoyC. himself as he has the lion's share of all things AR. Sadly, most of the other knowledgeable veterans have moved-on as the climate has changed here and for other reasons. Luckily, RoyC. is kind, and gracious enough to participate here. Do as I suggested, buy two used woofers, install one and store the other as a spare. My stash was put together by the same suggestions that I gave to you. It has become somewhat of a nuisance storing the large number of spare tweeters and woofers that I so joyously attained a number of years ago. I fear that I do come across as a true to life hi-fi freak-a-zoid to anyone who unavoidably sees it. I distract visiting guests by proving why I do what I do as soon as they sit down for a listen. I sometimes have to hold their chins up when they go out my door because of the gapping jaws and mouth after a listening session. FM

The AR 12” woofer has been my favorite for home hi-fi use since 1971-2. Enjoying them with a level of hi-fi passion. I have been in Hi-Fi love sort of speak since and presently own over 26 of them with 8 of them in use and the rest ear-marked for future systems along with the rest in reserve. First, do-not hook-up an amplifier as was suggested because that could do damage to the woofer and the amplifier should a shorting accident happen. I use a partially expired 1.5volt AA battery with leads taped to both pole/sides and then apply that to the woofer’s terminal while observing the cones movement. I use this same set-up when I do a refoam and I’ve done many of those with-out any problems since 1990. From my personal experience in dealing with these excellent woofers, it could only be a couple of things. I have experienced the lead from the terminals that goes into the paper cone that’s is also visible from the front of the cone with a small bead of glue or solder holding it to the paper itself cone might be broken and not attached. This can intermittently make contact or break contact and one wouldn’t even to be able to see it. That has happened to me and I tried every other conceivable trouble shoot with-out finding what the cause was, it drove me crazy. I only found out by using my fingers to press the cone in and out and that’s when I saw the ‘contact’ point separate. I posted here about it a few years ago. There’s also a possibility that the tinsel wire lead has separated from the underside of the two point terminal strip mounted to the stamped-steel basket, check that as it can go unseen like the first possibility I mentioned. Other than these two possibilities there’s only one other instance that I’ve experienced and that’s a break in the copper wire that’s wound around the actual voice coil itself and there’s nothing with-in reason that most folks would do to fix that other than buying a recone kit with voice-coil. The auction site can be your best friend as it has been for me and this is why I maintain a sizable stockpile of spare raw speakers. I committed to these AR speakers many years ago and have done everything necessary to maintain them. Good luck and be prepared to frequently check the auction and you may be lucky to find a pair in good condition for a reasonable price.* I purchased most of mine in the early 2000s when prices of $50.-$75. each was the norm. Nowadays, they're going for ridiculous prices. Also contrary to what’s been mentioned, your faulty woofer appears to be from the mid or later 1970’s and it's obvious has a newer refoam dust cap indicates these have been refoamed before. The tweeter shown according to its model number is a “Vifa” tweeter of moderate cost. FM * there's one there now, it looks like circa '72

Wonderful to hear a new member speak this way. ""They always respond to better upstream electronics"" , ""give them the room they deserve and all the unbridaled power they can take."" Those are some truly excellent words and a mind-set to live by! Some folks are not concerned with such things and will use lowly receivers and frightfully low power amplification while not paying any heed to placement and other majorly important factors. Better quality input sources are pivotal as is the capability of higher 'head-room' afforded by high power. Separates and high power afford the most flexibility and render the best sound overall. Couple that to a concerted effort in correct room placement and one can be closer to the 'real-thing'. P.S. AR surround a wonderful experiment and facts that you've presented at the onset here. I'm not sure how I missed your original post. I was probably listening to music.

I guess in a pinch those above mentioned Connoisseur 50 woofers would work however, there's nothing like the 'real' thing. In my life going back a long distance with AR 12" ownership, for me, there's nothing like the originals, hands down. AR's reputation was built long ago on that 12" woofer and the acoustic-suspension principal. If, I for whatever reason, was forced to own other speakers, I don't know what I'd do with-out that famous 12" AR bass quality. And as I've said on this site before that AR-3a 12" woofer opinion has been with me for 49 years of ownership and I have never changed my reasoning. I seek no other brand of woofer and have no intentions of ever doing so. How's that for being set in my ways? To the 'OP'; you have to ask yourself, 'why did I purchase these speakers in the first place?' One of the main reasons I bought my AR-3a's in late 1971 was because I had prior read so many articles and test reports about how good their bass response actually was. How they challenged and out did speakers many times their size. How uncolored their bass, mid and higher frequency response were so accurate. Happily, I was pleased upon purchasing them and have never thought otherwise. I say; why challenge greatness? FM

I can understand having lasagna on the mind but, what compels a person to think those cones will move at all? I sure hope these are not yours ra.ra. At least when I used rubber cement, my cones were able to vibrate. All in all, at this late stage vintage AR speakers are like high maintenance, needy old cars. Last refoam job I did on my LST's have lasted since 2013-14, still have my fingers crossed though and knock on veneered wood. I have found the P.E. to be very good and I've read somewhere that today's manufacturers are using special additives to prolong surround life. P.S. Whatever happened to that vendor who was selling fabric surrounds? These were brought up here a number of years ago and then the conversation faded away like my old surrounds use to do.

Ah.. yous guys have it easy these days. Way back in 1989 when I first set up a single set of AR-LST's, I was faced with the seemingly unsolvable problem of deteriorated foam surrounds. And just like the example shown above I attempted to seal the surrounds with masking tape which only lasted for a short listening sessions of reduced bass until I had to re-tape as it were. Then a bright light shown and an epiphany was realized. What if I used drier sheets with graphic-artist's rubber cement? Oh, such joy as I thought I had solved the vexing problem that so desperately needed a solution. At last I was graced with bass again as prior I had to set the tone controls to reduced or no bass so as not to blow the voice-coils. The first session went O.K along with me applying additional rubber cement as I watched the remains of the original foam surrounds flapping away from the cone. And just when I thought I had sealed the surround and was able to operate normally, another wind flapping hole would appear. I can't tell you how many bottles of rubber-cement I had to purchase as repair was an ongoing maintenance chore, I may have caused myself brain damage inhaling the stuff. Then one day in the back of that small little magazine 'Stereofool'" I saw a 1/8 page advert for 'New Foam Surrounds'. A sole proprietor located somewhere in the Carolinas offered a 'you-cut-to-size' foam surround replacement and at a nominal charge. I quickly sent a check in a envelope and with-in less than 2 weeks I had a brand new set of surrounds. I mean to me and I assumed others this was a God send. I swiftly cut the foam to what I estimated was the proper size and with the supplied glue I was back in business of listening with some 'bass' as I so sorely missed doing. Of course these surrounds didn't last for more than a couple of years and by that time other offerings started popping up in ads boasting of "correct-size for your speakers" and by this time I was ready to re-foam all over again. Well that was then and today I still can feel the regret as to why didn't AR realize that at some point owners of their speakers would run into such a problem. Well, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. P.S. DavidR, that's a very funny perception because they do look exactly like lasagna and good lasagna I haven't tasted since my mother passed. And though I've attempted to make them, it just wasn't the same as her's. FM

That 8" seems to have a double roll foam surround also. On my AR-9's the LMR is not ribbed and, utilizes only 4 screws and not 8 as the one in questions here. A holiday mystery and the 'OP' is the only one who will be able to sort this out.

Check the restoration guide, I bet there's nothing like it. I've been staring at AR's fine 12" woofers most of my adult life and have never seen a ribbed one. Could've been a replacement kit? The VC cap looks over-sized also. I've seen horror stories on the auction where some folks can be handy with a hack-saw and will squeeze some no-name junk in place. "Kal87bmw" will have to delve into this mystery. We must consul the AR Gods. RoyC. where you be? It's not like years ago when "sound minded" , "johnieo", "SteveF", "PeteB", "DynacoDan", "Minh", and a few others that were knowledgeable for all those years prior. Now, it's mostly new recruits and learn as you go types. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But, to think my speakers are older than some folks here. P.S. Correction, I have never seen a ribbed AR 12" newer design woofer in all of my adult life.

My recollection is that any 12" AR woofer of the later period do not have ribbed woofers, I may be incorrect though. Are these replacement cones?

There is a separate KLH forum, likely you'd find more advice there.

DaviR, would you think they would be as hearty as the original mids from the 1970's? In my experience, I feel AR's midrange is the best part of the 'AR-sound' besides their 12" woofer. I imagine they'd be manufactured in China as all have since AR went under. P.S. When Mark Levinson came out with his 'LST' he used the standard 4 ohm AR midrange with the metal grill absent as he asked AR to make them that way for him. The second iteration of the M.L. 'LST' used midrange drivers by another manufacturer. FM

And rightly so because I'm more than likely correct. Jeepers, why wouldn't I be correct? I'm about 5 or so hours from Boston, MA., if you ever came to check out 'the system', you'd readily be assured with in the first few seconds of listening.

Ah shucks fellas, that ain't no hole, why that must be black paint, just look at the other side of the speaker. After countless refoam operations I can attest to AR's quick swipe of the black paint brush. Why would there be hole on the masonite, why would there be a hole in the stamped metal frame? And Giorgio AR, you're completely correct about those mids, that's a later AR-11. Though I will admit that I've been staring at AR speakers for so many decades, after a while, it's almost like looking at a black hole. In the immortal words of Stan Laurel and Oliver Hardy in March of the Wooden Soldiers. "Why that's neither pig nor pork, it's beef".

Great Caesar's ghost! Well, I can only imagine the fate of these cabinets. Either way, I can and will revel in the knowledge that four operating cabinets reside in my main system with plans of another system using only two cabinets sometime in the future. E' lei Giorgio, vuoi comprare, si o no? If I were you, being not so far away would buy at least four empty cabinets and get started having major fun. Buy all and sell the rest. At 400 pounds for the lot, it's almost free. FM

It boils down to two things, personal philosophies and personal economics. And in addition to that I always say; “Fore warned, is for armed” It could happen at a time when it’s inconvenient and a hassle (it always is)so, it’s better to have spare drivers on hand so if it happens again, you simply take the short time to grab a spare, pop it in and continue listening. Sure beats locating one for sale, going through the usual problems of waiting and hoping one arrives safely and still not being sure if it’ll work correctly, let alone locating a good one for sale. I’ve been there before and bought/took any chance I had to stock-up and be prepared for the worse. This is why I own multiples of AR drivers and because I have reserved units, I’m never afraid to turn up the volume when needed. As an AR speaker owner going on 49 years now to be exact so, I’ve been there many times before. Of course it depends on one's priorities but, I'm talking about very old, discontinued speakers here. I do agree that in these modern times we live in a ‘consumerist-society’ and it’s certainly different from how I grew-up but, that’s the way it is and in this life time, with-in reason, there’s no sense in denying oneself of what’s available. Many here if not all have more than one set of speakers, it’s what we do out of desire and hobby related necessity. Additionally if you’re enamored as much as I am about these materialistic items, because that’s what they are, their age and scarcity are considerable. Just look at the way their cost has sky-rocketed in this last decade alone. If you want something and can afford it, flaunt it. Life is way too short. What’s that expression when one dies? “He who has the most toys, wins”. P.S. I still have my original “Beatle” boots I bought in 1964 (though feet like ears become bigger the older one becomes) and my original Fender Bassman amplifier I bought new in late 1967 which a year ago I had re-capped. I paid $250. new, boxed for the amplifier in NYC at either “Sam Ash” or “Manny’s” I don’t recall which and in as good condition as mine is, I could easily get $1,000.+ for it, though I will never sell it as I still use today. I thought about buying another but, they're too costly these days and too big in size to have two of them floating around here. P.S. 2 So yeah, I agree, attempt to repair it first but, as I said be prepared to replace it or at least have a spare or two. FM

I would just buy another one, or two or more, it's that easy https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-early-One-AR-2-woofer-alnico-speaker-AR-logo-in-frame-WorkS/392527433381?hash=item5b64754ea5:g:t~kAAOSwrxpdwN~F I have spares of tweeters, midranges, and woofers. In this AR hobby there's no other way to operate. It hinges on how serious one is about their speakers.

Via, vai , lasciami in pace! I'm kidding. My latest acquisition.

Trouble maker! If I stressed-out any further and called the psych-intervention department at the local hospital, they'd never understand.

As my curiosity would insist, I couldn't resist researching this sale in Braintree, UK. The seller states no shipping to the USA so, rite there I'm out and must stop thinking about such a thing though I bet if I offered a nice chunk of money, we'd work out a deal. I actually have enough tweeters and woofers to fill about 10+ cabinets, the X-overs would be an additional expense but, who's asking. To further expound on my fantasy thoughts I'd fill them with newly available mids but, I'd do so with-out question in a heart beat. What a project it would be to build 10+ cabinets. Further thoughts wander to purchasing more amps and for me, nothing less than a Phase Linear PL-700 Series II for each set so, right there more expense. This is a once in a life time situation and likely will never, ever, ever occur again. And, Gorgio, I've followed your posts thus far and enjoy them but, now I may have second thoughts because stuff like this actually becomes troubling for me and I know that I'll struggle to put it out of my mind. I'm left completely dumb-founded, and almost upset by this whole matter. But, thanks just the same. After-all, these are "LST's". Somebody give me a guitar, I've gotta write a song about this. FM P.S. I presently have 3 pairs of LST's and I'm thinking about another pair to have another stacked system so, I'll try to be calm as collecting too many speakers can become a neurosis of which I'm displaying tendencies of having already. Listening is the prime adjective for me as it should be for us all. The enjoyment of music is more important than collecting speakers and not actually using them is anti-productive. As most tell me when they see my already over indulged collection: "What are you going to do with all of those speakers?" "You can only listen to one pair at a time". So, in closing I better follow my own advice and return to the love of music, not hoarding wooden boxes. I have enough and will remain quite happy with what I already own. Though, lately, I must confess, I've gotten into collecting guitars, not really expensive ones, just a few that sound good to my ears, have good playability and look good to my eyes. Forgive me, I'm upset by this whole matter that's become an issue for me.

So they will not wobble or crawl along the floor and aids in moving them.

Hi ar_pro, My determination of more ‘bass’ was also confirmed by a couple of knowledgable and notable members on this site a number of years back so, I’m not simply talking through my hat as some do. Nor do I speak from behind the ‘key-board-shield’ as many do across the internet. In fact when I first realized there was more bass response, I was quite impressed myself as I still am today, many years later. Mind you it isn't a worlds apart difference but, it sounds slightly bigger and with more capacity. So yes ar_pro in terms of more bass my opinion is based on using a single pair of LST’s like I did in 1990, later adding a second set on top. I never did install a third set of LST’s on top of my double set as “AR surround” once jokingly suggested I do. Though I could as I have three matching PL-700 Series II amplifiers. However, the third amp is presently powering my set of AR-9’s which I hardly use. I’m simply too enamored with the double LST’s. If you could only hear the ‘system’, you’d know why.