frankmarsi

"ammiocuggino" would do it "by ear" then he would surely say they sound outstanding." I too do it by ear, I do not have tools to measure FR. I’ve set up my speakers in a position that most in the know would agree with; against the ‘front-wall’ facing into the listening area of 26 by 12.5 feet. As I stated in a post here over 10 years ago, when I first carried these heavy transducers into the new living room, I went against years of learned true-isms of that knowledge on a lark and placed the LSTs 1/3 away from the front wall and into the room. The sound? it sucked, period. They did not sound anything like AR-LST’s. It was a waste of time and also meant I had to move these heavy weights another time with their dedicated stands. I so lovingly moved them to their correct position, against the front wall! There’s no, ifs, or buts they sounded their best that way, period. These days, I see AR-LST’s on ‘y__t_be’ with folks listening to them mid-room, or even 2/3 into the room and the sound is anemic and severely lacking in the great bass reproduction these are capable of. It seems more then ever mis-information and misguidedness is almost taking over the world. Regarding the ‘transformer’ “AR” decided upon using was a good decision and the correct one in terms of what AR had decided for a mass market of consumer purchases and a generalization for ease of use. And when I saw a transformer used in the 10pie, I knew AR was into something great. In my use of the LST’s I find myself setting the transformer’s switch setting to the number ‘2’ or flat or neutral setting, which is the standard setting without any attenuation. This setting I deemed best and probably because of using huge wattage going into each speaker certainly answers the bass strength needs. Also, using AR’s for over 50 years as my sole choice of speakers, I’ve never wanted to go to that silly place some others might enjoy unknowingly as a fake exaggerated bass sound, the web is flooded with those types. I learned all those years ago that AR provides accurate bass and to spoil that aspect of their sound quality is something only a novice would do. And as a bass guitar player in the late ’60s into the early’70s, rhythm guitar player before that 1964 to 1967 in multiple rock-bands I certainly was attune to such matters. Also, in all of my audio-life, I aways pursued realistic and a natural amount of quality-bass and that in of itself is what drew my to AR speakers initially. Back in the mid - late ’60s to the ‘knowing’, AR bass was the one to pursue. So, in closing I suggest to look at my posts and the 2 videos, I have room filling sounding bass that is inescapable as natural and realistic sounding bass. So, “giovanni56” that’s why I in my listening room I set the transformers at the #2 setting as I found setting #3-5 too heavy sounding. As I mentioned, it’s achieved with high wattage because typically the bass frequencies demand it and in the flat #2 setting the bass is full bodied while remaining accurate. Pace a tutti !!! FM 151

Congratulations and all the best on a well done restoration. Consider using in line fuses also. FM 997

Oh, so you want another good story? In 2006 I was able to acquirer two empty AR-3a cabinets in great cosmetic condition for $89.00 While in 2005 I bought two excellent condition AR-3a’s for under $500. In 2009 I found in a local garbage pile, two EPI 100V’s for the taking. As I indicated in above paragraph I bought a set of AR-9’s for $750. in 2014. Then in 1988 as if it was a miracle on one sunny day I acquired five AR-LST’s out of which I was able to make four as the extra cabinet was badly beat-up. That afforded me four extra midranges along with four tweeters and a woofer and X-over. And though the woofer was badly damaged, I kept it anyway as even in the late '80s, my affection for these speakers and the knowledge of how rare and costly they are was still alive and sharp. I attribute my good luck in these instances because, I was patient and waited literally decades for just the right speakers to come along. I don’t doubt my intense wishing and hoping helped. Not to mention my eagle-eyed surveillance of neighborhood areas and residential garbage piles of trash. I understood that some folks just don't know what they have and were willing to toss things. I had since an early age been on the prowl. One man's trash is another man's treasure as the saying goes. I’m grateful that in except for the AR-9’s I was able to transport all speakers by myself with-out bodily harm. I say this because when you do it all the moving of these unwieldy boxes on your own, going through doorways was especially difficult when I on numerous occasions relocated the AR-LST’s in and out of a couple of apartments and even more different locations with my original AR-3a’s, I'm glad I'm in good shape. To me for a moment, each relocation was carried out as if I was moving a sacred item as I place much value on my AR’s. That’s a bit exaggerated I admit but, when I think about all the intense (almost every time), and concentrated listening/learning sessions I took part in you’d understand. I’ve been a critical listener from the onset since I decided to enjoy music as an adolescent and through-out my life. In doing so it enabled me to appreciate varied and different types of music even more. For me, music can be a soul expanding experience. FM

If they were with-in 100 miles of my location I'd be there in a heart-beat. Working domes or not as I feel they're an excellent platform to restore or modify. Couple that to the unbelievable four AR 12" woofers, these speakers are very attractive to me. Even if I chose to modify them, keeping those woofers and adding whatever fit the dome holes with an upgraded other maker mids and tweeters these cabinets have unlimited potential. I sometimes read reviews of current top dollar vertical formant hi-end speakers many of which have low side mounted woofers (which I believe the AR-9's made popular), there's obvious similarities. I believe the AR double twelve inch woofers are hard to beat and close to if not better than anything out there. That's my opinion but, it would also take a face to face qualified comparison to be certain. P.S. In their 'Fall-2024' speaker directory TAS magazine has a one full page with a couple of paragraphs praising the AR-3, AR3a speakers. They also high-lite the Advent later vinyl-clad speaker. I find it very gratifying how a top publication such as it is has appreciation for what all of us do here. How could they not, AR spawned many copiers of their great designs that to this day remain sort after. FM

If anyone in the Chicago area is looking to get a pair of AR-9 speakers at a good price check out this link: https://www.ebay.com/itm/166839742044?itmmeta=01J2EWAJNYN26XHQ0VCXTK38T2&hash=item26d86c6e5c:g:GqgAAOSwR7pmeZs~&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA8DSGfF%2BOv%2BsYdQeN%2BfhyO8%2BsPgM3zXIMIzlP8f4ciujyF3w%2F0aQfp%2BcCSkYfGLPPL5DrYaQz%2FdFgCM0ckuiK1aZAVFb5caeVPXE%2BI8pcVfOBS8Xh5rc6YRtrnVy0HCiwJaPmVIi%2F%2BgG8EMCqkq3YhBvA8Aogxax9LKiVbNIJNVoyzzcChnocXhJ4tgLHr5%2FM7CIUTI%2B8WmTab4zz2kWpUsgHfCpLrgEq10hDKK%2Bv5pOS0Sda5kdC8TpvJkjFxMiY%2FBNVPTGHTkv6UR4Rk2ttY9FQpSgGLoxSMq7Gw4k7UhuI92xwb5qYcwZw%2FbJ%2FwfSNKw%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR4irqtyTZA In 2014 I found a set in good.excellent condition about 45 minutes from me with a 'BIN, I jumped out of my seat and became hyper-thrilled. I made arrangements with a relative to help me and bring his pickup truck with him. Gathered-u my 'moving-blankets, dolly and hand-truck. They were listed on the bay also for only $950. and more than hard to resist. The following day I was hooking them up and very excited until.... after a minute I realized the tweeters were not working and immediately emailed the seller. I told the seller about the issue and that each tweet would cost in and around $100. Luckily for me, he was solely interested in getting rid of these room dominating boxes (as he put it) and gladly refunded me the $200. for the replacement tweeters. I cannot claim anything about these speakers now being offered on eBay, whether or not they perform properly but, the seller claims they do in his ad. If I were to buy theses, I'd go back and forth with the seller and ask any and all questions before purchasing them as I do with most on line purchases. Good luck to the happy new owner. Mine ended up costing me $750. plus the two tweeters which I had on hand. After the transaction was done I proceeded to re-foam all of the bass and the two lower-midrange drivers, which of course I expected to do anyway. After all the re-foaming was complete, I hooked up two Phase Linear PL-400 amps in bi-amp configuration. With-in a few weeks I experimented with a singular PL-700II and found it more to my liking. I like the AR-9 very much and feel akin to them since I've been an AR fanboy for the past 53 years of ownership but, I'm forever partial to my double mounted set of AR-LST's as my main system and that fact has been ironclad since 1989. Nonetheless, since the AR-9 first appeared what in 1978 or so and even though I was married to my original pair of AR-3a's at the time, I felt I had to have the full TOTL AR complement of speakers from the 'Golden-Era'. I'm glad I made the correct decisions years ago. I had no idea that by 1989 I'd be the happy owner of four AR-LST's or by 2014 own AR-9. Of course throughout the years my hope was to own the big three from AR. So, what happens after my collection has been operating for five decades now, I just keep on listening though I do take breaks so as to keep the thrill alive. I can speak comfortably these days but, back in the 1970's, '80s when these things were new and competitive, I couldn't get enough of them. Now, being settled and relaxed about the issue of ownership of the collection, I'm content and look no further. And except for being a subscriber of the two major hi-end magazines that's only done to keep abreast with any new components that I'll more than likely never purchase except for phono cartridges. FM

Two other possibilities could be the voice is out of alignment or, the tinsel leads may be pulled too tight or short or kinked. Or cabinet is lacking the proper amount of interior stuffing. And lastly an air leak of the cabinet's suspension seal. Measurement, trial and error both in listening and physical inspection will turn up the answer for certain. Although age and use could be the cause however, other than what has been mentioned, the AR woofer is a rather hardy driver. Whatever the reason nor however strong the AR driver is, it has not stopped me from stocking spare 12 inch woofers. In 1978 I blew-out a woofer for the first time and the feeling inside my gut of being abandoned and helpless knowing these woofers are not stocked or pulled from a shelve for purchase from any store except being purchased directly from AR was very unsettling. Worse yet, these days there's no more AR Corp. so, used purchases is the only way to go and in all likelihood the direction one takes. Ultimately, the directive is to get the speaker up and running whatever it takes. Good condition used drivers or total driver rebuild is our only form of insurance in keeping these older speakers alive. After years of ownership, I can admit, owners are very limited in their options. But, if you are dedicated as I have been all these decades, it should be a labor of love eternal. FM 68

Amazing.

To echo what others say, receivers don’t do doubling of two sets of speakers well. Despite wishful thinking, their circuitry is not heavy-duty enough to handle such loads nor are their power supplies. When one uses the speaker control to run another set it's still the same transistor/tubes that are powering all the speakers and that's asking a lot from any component. Low volumes for short periods perhaps but, not for sustained realistic levels of volume. A singular amplifier for one set of speakers is the way to go about it in terms of sound quality and safety to one’s equipment. The link below to the set-up I put together as it was a dream for many years come true for me has driven that point home. Even with huge amounts of power at 700WPC I maintain 4.5 inch fans at all times while in operation. This is not only my opinion but also of countless others who have such systems. High amplifier wattage is essential even at low volumes whenever a musical peak arises which can arrive by surprise. I’ve had the experience of such a surprise and lost tweeters due to such an occurrence. * Decent outboard computer speakers are recommended. * https://community.classicspeakerpages.net/topic/10649-do-ar-speakers-really-sound-that-good-more-new-video/ * FM 1

As an easy to understand comparison that quality cables can make would be to compare a CRT TV to a modern day 4K TV. If one cannot discern the differences I speak of hopefully, with a valid learning experience doing so at some point they will. Apparently, we have very different opinions of High Fidelity, I can see that in your fotos. FM

“Straight is straight. Source decides how good the end product wiĺl sound, in between are many, many variables. I find that if one takes cables into that last equation, one is not listening to music but forever overanalysing sound. This is perpetual. I do not go there.” When in and around 1978 “Disc-Washer” came out with their new interconnects I pondered their claims of better quality listening results. My system at that time consisted of two AR-3a’s, a Phase Linear PL-4000 and PL-400. By that time I was using Micro-Statics as tweeters as my then 7 years experience with AR’s tweeter’s inabilities were forgotten as a bad memory. I still have the metal plates I cut to block off the tweeters cabinet hole. I realized these cables were available locally at a store on Union Square West at 14th. St. NYC That store was very old and was popular for years before my time, called “Packard Electronics’ . These new cables promised better bass, better highs, their name; “Golden-Ends”. I, like many at the time simply used the cheap-junk cables that usually came with every new component one could purchase. I was just starting to make decent money and took the chance of buying a couple of sets. My inputs were a Pioneer CT-900 cassette, Harmon- Kardon T-403 FM tuner and a Tannoy/Micro-Seiki TM55 turntable with Shure Type III cartridge. To be honest there wasn’t a huge change in the sound though things did seem a bit focused, more open as it were. When in the late eighties I bought into that Monster-Cable schtick and did my whole system with their 400 Series cables about $40./meter. A definite change in sound but also slightly muted overall and un-involving. In 2012 I went up in cost with “Straight-Wires’ mid level “Symphony II’s” about $100-$150, one to 1 & 1/2meters. My system opened up immediately and with-in 2-3 weeks they were well broken-in and, my ears that had gleefully grown fond of the more apparent and realistic highs along with a more rounded and full-bodied bass, something I read about achieving in practically every magazine/article at the time. And no, they didn't color the output sound, they merely allowed it to come through. I found myself finally admitting of how much bargain-basement cables hold back on sound. It was like getting out of a choke-hold. It wasn’t long before I went out bought more and installed these new better cables on every source component in my system. The result was finally I was listening to crystalline highs, and more authoritative bass while the mids came forward full-bodied instead of seeming half-baked as before. In the future I intend to make further improvements with costlier cables though, I'm more than satisfied with my system now. I maintain there might always be something better out there as that's the way of the world. Those in denial of that fact are easy to spot, ask to see their system or speak of valid experience not parroted words they may have read on some forum. So when someone says to me that cables don’t make a difference it indicates I’m doing the correct thing and no, no need to over-analyze anything except to enjoy the musical piece I’m listening to as it takes me on a musical excursion and become closer to the music. FM

" what is however absolutely crucial, is the synergy with what is upstream. I am NEVER referring to cables. I dont go there." Is there a reason you mention cables? A listening room also contributes to a system's "synergy" with a stereo system. I'm glad you mention "upstream" as I have a number of times but never receive a pro or nay comment in return. FM

@ Andre_db66, the reply is not clear to me but, perhaps this post is going astray? At this late date of AR classic speakers if you gave me a JBL L100 tweeter and assured me it'll sound just like an AR tweeter and wouldn't sound too hot or beamy as I recall those tweeters I'd be happy. I'd know they could handle the power I feed my system and they'd last. My sole affection for AR tweeters is that they were accurate with the additional wonderful wide spread of their output. Since my first year of using AR-3a's, with-in the first six months, I burnt out my first AR tweeter . They simply are not made to handle large amounts of wattage or clipping. Early on by 1972 I was using 60 WPC and even then they couldn't handle higher volumes. Although 60WPC couldn't handle AR-3a speaker loads if one prefers approaching higher and more realistic volumes anyway. Well, that issue was solved by using outboard tweeters that could handle higher volumes and that latitude led me to feeding my 3a's even more power to the tune of 400WPC. I've been in that camp ever since. After it all made sense to my young mind back then, I never looked back to the option of keeping my speakers original as to me it was like beating a dead horse. It was a sad realization for me. Presently, I'm holding in reserve 16 AR-9 tweeters because I fear going back to 1972 and continuing proving the point that large volumes are not part and parcel of AR's original design parameters. One can't expect a little car's engine to propel it as quickly as a larger more powerful engine could. Although these days with the use of computer technology car manufacturers are getting as much power out of a small block engine whereas 40-50 years ago one could only enjoy the use of a big-block big horse power engine. Though AR speakers can't be compared to car engines, they're generally held back and still maintain their 70 year technology unlike the auto industry. So, there we must remain unless one modifies their speakers to handle high wattage and for many here that's out of the question. Whereas my choice was to elevate my use of AR speakers by using tweeters that can handle it. I don't feel I'm defeating the AR goal of accuracy as the audio band most tweeters typically operate at make it difficult to pin-point. Some tweeters are designed for different uses, my home use keeps me at a certain level of just that, home use. My amplifiers can easily entirely destroy my speakers but, I don't go to those limits. If I were working in the large scale auditorium or stadium venue, I'd be installing tweeters designed to handle that sort of use. Many years ago, the horn designed for such use was able to do the job albeit and inescapably with some beaming and harshness thrown in too boot. I've used smaller horns for a short while 50 years ago but, found them uncomfortable to listen to, that's my opinion. Domes as AR upheld do a better job at least in the home application. I've seen certain domes that can handle large amounts of wattage, I'm just not certain of their sound quality so, for myself I keep it simple and stay away. Additionally, horns were designed for very far-field use, I for the life of me don't understand some folks using big horns for the upper frequencies in their homes as they must be fatiguing with long-term use but, that's another story. So, I feel this thread has lasted as long as it can as it already has drifted far along since it started. We're going in circles as it is. FM @ Andre_db66, I've always felt a picture is worth a thousand words so, could you show a foto of your system and how it's arranged?

Unless each speaker set is positioned in a room with the recommended methods universally adhered to, it will not be a fair platform for judging any speaker. If poor quality program material and input sources are not of recommended preferences there again will not be a fair platform for judging any speaker. With over 35 years of AR-LST ownership (3 pairs), I maintain that there’s only one best room placement that is recommended as optimum by AR Corp. That position is directly against the room’s front wall at about 27 inches high. It's imperative that not in any setting it be placed mid-room or 3/4 out from the front wall. As these speakers typically absorb more power than many other speakers, above average wattage is mandatory to enjoy their limits as typically, they just sound better the louder they are if correctly powered and positioned. Input sources should also be of enough quality that a fair evaluation can be made. When these requisites are followed, the listener is that much closer to the ‘real’ musical event. P.S. Regarding this post I started about the current separately available domes. About 15 or so years ago I posted here asking the same question about the available at that time tweeter domes. Most of them would not fit any AR tweeter in diameter and the post quickly faded away. I also brought up the question of rubber surrounds for woofers even though I knew the AR woofers operate at a certain compliance to achieve their excellent bass and rubber surrounds would rob them of that potential. It's become obvious 'mods' to the "Classic" AR speakers are were and are limited. In my opinion the only apparent modification is using outboard auxiliary tweeters or tweeters that fit the inclosure hole or using rebuilt units but, there too power handling won’t be much higher than the originals. Although AR speakers were manufactured during a period when 10 to 35 WPC was the norm, only their mids and woofers are able to sustain the usage of higher power ratings and that’s only the larger models. P.S. II, and to think I was seeing and living this while I was listening to my AR-3a's way back in 1971. The following year brought a SS amp the ST-120 Dyna 60WPC and a AR-Xa turntable + Shure M55 cart. So, can I have an Amen, if not, a Hey Man will do......... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g4zXepHASM FM 1.2

ma che dice, Io sape

Roy, are you stating these little domes are appropriate and usable, cause right now, it’s still unclear. At the asking price of these domes, I’m almost certain many here would venture into experimentation rather quickly. Blown tweeter veterans surely have one or two inoperable units sitting around collecting dust and would likely take the plunge to experiment as the cost won’t hold many back from doing so. The other question which has still not been answered is their sound-quality. Is their sound and output comparable to the AR tweeters or maybe other brands? Another question that concerns me is power-handling ability as that alone for me would be a determining factor to plunge into this or wait and watch to see which way the wind is blowing. I realize if these tweeters are a good option, it may not please those who rebuild as an enterprising venture but, how many are actually doing that? I’m aware of only a couple who are brave enough to go to that extent of voice-coil winding, etc. With the the thin dome offered, experimentation with varied coatings as I mentioned earlier is a possible route to consider also. Suspensions can be worked out also as experimentation indicates, the same with impedance matching. Then there’s the possibility that I’m completely incorrect about this whole situation and that this post will fade into obscurity. However, if there’s a glimmer of hope many will be happy. So, as Klaatu said to Patricia Neil and the world: “the decision rests with you”……….Klaatu, barada nikto" FM