frankmarsi

"bfastr" Let's hope some will learn from your good example. I've been doing this for decades and I learned early on the basic rules must be adhered to for maximum quality of sound. Yet, some believe they know better than those who've been down this road before and that they can rewrite the basic fundamentals and principles of high fidelity set-up and listening. They're so wrong. What's the expression? "Those who don't learn from history, are condemned to relive the worse aspects of it". Happy listening bfastr, I've got to run along and do some pleasurable work that's actually part of my listening regiment. This week I received approximately 15 vinyl disks that I want to ultrasonically clean. These are some of the best condition used disks I've bought on the bay to date. The selling claim was that they've never been played and they certainly appear as such. Thank goodness there are still honest people in this world. Though, a good cleaning will be the ultimate proof. My way of doing things is to always clean a record before it goes any where near my turntables. Whether they're new or used, it doesn't matter. It makes for better listening and brings one closer to the music in every way. Anyone who says differently is a nincompoop plain and simple. Or perhaps they simply don't fully understand the basics. FM

That's all such good old "Americana" from a time gone by. Everything was for all intents new and wonderful. For the most part, virtues as trustworthiness, decency, and honor were still a common thread. The American population in the early 1950's was half of what it is today.

Wow! I was never aware of those. Though they do have that early '60s brass colored feet/leg sort of look, they seem barely suited for the task. Then again, there's a new trend of placing bookshelf speakers on floors by some folks here so, that photo may do some good as inspiration.

Hi Tom Tyson, I stated the AR speakers were sitting on top of the square box-room, AKA AR demo-room on opposite corners of the box or room. I don't recall them being on stands, although since that was in 1974 so, I do not recall correctly if they were or not. The times I passed by, the speaker's audible level was barely distinguishable from the din. The sound as I recall in no way would've or could've filled that cavernous terminal. My regret was not actually walking into the demo-room because I was usually in a rush as per life's pace in NYC. Sadly, one day when I did have time, the room was gone. However, going out of the west-side doors of the terminal led one directly to West 45th street and there were a couple of Hi-Fi stores in which one could peruse. Walking further west led to the musical instrument store district. Sadly, Manhattan to me as a born there and working there over three quarters of my life has drastically changed. Most, if not all, particular 'districts' such as the flower district which was about 5 square blocks has been reduced to about 2 streets only. The hardware and commercial kitchen district has been reduced to maybe only two blocks if that. Forget Canal Street which held out for decades as another hardware and electrical-parts district which has been reduced to car-stereos and the sale of expired rolls of masking tape. Manufacturing has all but disappeared from that boro and typically all of the countless 'mom & pop' stores of almost every genre are gone. There was a time when every corner you turned would've led to another sort of 'district' with a whole other character and ambience but sadly,, no more. Having been born there and like I said worked the entirety of my adult life there, it has lost all of its attraction for me. It's very sad because NYC was almost in a way of speaking an amusement park of life and in of itself an education by merely walking thru the streets and neighborhoods. One used to be able to find almost any object, any item, any machine, any sort of clothing that was ever made available to the consumer. And although progress is inevitable, I'm saddened and put-off by the changes that have occurred to such an historical place. Now, for veterans of that hell hole like myself have retired and relocated as far away as ideally possible. It has become any amusement park attraction of a different nature for tourists and millennials and others who only have a Hollywood's film visual perception of it. And the folks who partook in building it are mostly all dead by now. My father had worked from 1927 to 1929 as a 'timber-man' in construction for the further extension of subway lines to uptown "Harlem" on 125th Street and Lenox Ave. station till the 'Depression' hit and was forced to find menial work. It's just not what it use to be any longer, and to a born and breed native as myself, I find it uncomfortable and undesirable Luckily, many of the 100+ year old buildings still exist so, if so inclined, a person who enjoys history can still see a number of notable sites. The days of me being a teenager in 1963 to 1968 and going there to see the music-district stores because I was becoming an instrument player, or to stroll comfortably through many of the interesting areas are all but gone. Mostly, the whole place has become so homogenized and gentrified that it has lost all of its original character. In my mind, the death-knell began in the early to mid 1980's. By the early 1990's it was obvious 'Ole NYC' had changed and not for the better. There was a movie called: "Escape from New York ", made in 1980 which I fear may become a reality in the distant future. But hey , that's just one man's opinion after living there for 64 years. I'm sure for an out-of-towner it may still hold a certain allure if for nothing else, the buildings are and will be overwhelming impressive for an out of towner. For me, once I watched that second terrorist plane hit the second tower from the 1800 foot distance from which I was standing, it was sort of the last nail in the coffin. When I felt the ground shake from the south tower collapsing, I felt it was the end of the world. In many ways I still miss the old NYC from my heyday of the 1970's and '80s but, I refuse even to visit. FM

Excellent post here fellas and thanks very much. This is feeling like the old CSP. Thank goodness. And seventy1, you've given hope for the future to users of the XXX29 tweeter. FM

Michele, you haven't mentioned anything about the condition of the woofers. Might they need a re-foaming job? I'm one of the lucky and the few here that own LST's. In terms of room placement, required handling power and such, they require some different conditions than your regular speaker box. The 'AR-LST' is not a common speaker and as such special considerations must be adhered to. If not properly observed this could add to your situation of lessened bass response. FM

3-4-18 Straight from the horse's mouth. Thank you DavidR, now I am certain. But why I didn't I catch that in the manual? Small matter though. I only have PL-400's and three PL-700Series II so, even if I tried I can't escape high-power. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.* * John Dalberg-Acton, 8th Baronet P.S. In the foto above of my AR-9 system #2 I'm using two PL-400 amplifiers of identical model with various other vintage components was then in early 2014, it's since been altered. Nonetheless, this is almost uncanny as today one of the last three or so PL fellas who worked at the company when it was up and running pre-sell-out, called me out of the clear blue. I had been trying to reach him regarding working on my amps, though I knew he was relocating. I had actually almost given up on this guy. This will hinge on what he'll charge for each rebuild of course. But, one thing for certain, I am having the power cut-off relay installed in each one. Over the years, I have found the smaller PL-400 is a sweeter sounding little monster as compared to it's bigger sibling, it just doesn't have the large balls as it's bigger sibling. I also discussed with him that because of the reticent nature and sound response of AR's I'd like to solely continue using PL amps as they offer a sense of exuberance and slam as does my choice of MC phono cartridges in order to compensate for the AR speakers' reticent nature. This isn't happenstance, it's how I planned my system to sound since '74 when I first coupled AR and PL in my listening life. I seek excitement and realism, not 1950's or '60s home speaker common sound quality which is fuddy-duddy in its sound quality and is well entrenched in sounding dated, muffled and canned and because it just doesn't move me as a system should be sounding realistic. Having to strain and saying to yourself "Uh, I think it sounds good" is not for me. Either it replicates the real thing or it's not. Been there, done that in the beginning, many, many moons ago. That fact is what propelled me to always keep my system growing. Onwards and upwards, no lateral movements for me chucko. If I had JBL's I'd probably be using laid-back sounding amps to quell and compensate for their nature. It's all about system-matching and system-synergy and I feel the road I've been on regarding all of this stuff has been the high road. Between my choice of interconnects, speaker cables, choice of MC cartridges, tonearms, ultra-sonic cleaning of vinyl disks, proper handling, et-all, has led me to have a system that is very revealing and probably one of the few vintage systems with as much detail and high resolution that anyone could speak of. It may not be as resolving as a current mega dollar system is but, it'll go toe to toe with most systems out there just not the super-duper silly money and much costlier stuff. Am I proud of what I've put together after all of these years in this insane hobby? You can bet your last dollar I am. Uh-oh, I went astray again, I'm such a blabber-er. You must understand, I'm very satisfied with what I've put together. DavidR, thanks again for posting that information. I may have to look for another PL-700 and try bi-amping again with my AR-9's? Personally, I don't think AR-9's can handle it at higher volumes using two such high power amps with-out losing a tweeter or more. FM

@larrybody, do those products darken the original finish in anyway? My AR-9's are a lighter shade of wood compared to a walnut. My goal is to keep them light toned and not even attempt to approach the walnut shade. I had refreshed the cabinets upon purchase with Pledge whatever spray and I really saturated them heavily but, that kept the same tone though it faded in a couple of weeks and they're starting to look a little dry once again. FM

Good for you DavidR, you've been desiring those for a while. Now I can go ahead with my good feelings about keeping my own AR-9's and still come to you for spare parts. I did feel sort of guilty as you had asked about mine a couple of times. Now, you have your own and no body can touch you.

Please, AR surround you of all people? " squeamish"? Where's you car made? Or that TV you're watching right now? Or, for that matter your flip-flops beside your bed, your small appliances, your AC filter, your socks and sneakers. If you all fail me now, I'm afraid this most definitely will 'separate the wheat from the chaff'. If nothing happens here I will turn in my medals, my stripes and badges as I don't need any stink'in badges anymore for I will hang my head in shame, shame for all of the men here who speak with such authority and wisdom on this site to not take a chance for a once in a lifetime dream come true. May I be excused, as I need to wake-up early so I can head out early to drive to the frozen tundra known as Saint Paul, Minnesota where these are being shipped from. I warn you, I have enough to buy cases of these wholesale and sell them to all of you, one at a time and solely at my discretion. And, if I feel any grudges or ill feelings coming from any of you, I may not offer any warrantees. And to you two. deserters, you two turn-coats, Kent and AR surround. You guys are in north-western New Jersey which is a whole lot closer to Minnesota than where I'm located. Please, I'm pleading with you, I'm begging you, we've all wished for this for hundreds of years and now you are fishing for excuses. In sadness and defeat, I truly believe, I'm afraid this will 'separate the wheat from the chaff'. P.S. I wasn't joking or lying, I actually do have that many spare tweeters in reserve. You see, I was in the active military 48 years ago, now, I'm a just a reservist. FM

My, how tight is tight genek? Can't any of you behooved members get up the scratch? Please don't tell me this is why we all own 40 year old speakers is because we can't afford anything new? Hog-wash! I refuse to settle for this unenthusiastic show of fear of the unknown. Answer the question, now who will be the first man to show his chest? Who will be given the credit of such a wonderful experience? True, if everyone does install these new fanggle gadgets, there may not be a need for this site any longer except for all of the 'cabinet-huggers', the 'pot-scrubbers' or the non-cognoscenti with their boasts of how the AR-3 being better than the AR-3a's as we'll all be happy listeners with no time for banter. I bet before tomorrow afternoon, there will be at least 10 members here telling us of their proud purchases. P.S. speaking about tight, JKent should I be letting out that Santa suit any? FM

Why you will, won't you JKent? Besides, you're here often enough, you can tell us all of your results day by day. Won't you? Please say you will. If for nothing else, then do it for God and country. My word, this is a dream come true and rather historic for us all. Think of it, it's just in time for Christmas joy and cheer for all of us. And JKent, if you're still sporting a white beard, you could be Santa, I'll even donate my Santa suit from my last gig. I'll even wash it first before I pass it on to you. I'm a size 34 pants, think it'll fit you? Hurry, somebody call Roy C. he must be a part of this joy and happiness immediately because he deserves to know. And while you're at it some one contact chris1this1 too. Sadly, I may not be able to squander any more money because 10 years ago when the word on the street was the ABTech tweeters, I purchased 22 of those. When the word on the street was the HiVi tweeters, why I purchased 21 of those too. And in the last 18 months, I've purchased 18 AR-9 used tweeters in preparation for installing in my AR-LST's and AR-9. You might say, I'm all tweetered-out. Or is that tweedle dee and tweedle dum? Nonetheless members, haul the wagons into a circle and be prepared to celebrate like never before, or like it's 1999. And to think they're "Power Rating: 75 Watts / 150 Watts Max" which is a whole lot more handling ability than those original shitty little AR tweeters were. FM

Has a manufacturer succeeded in producing a replacement, clone or exact copy of the infamous AR tweeter? You be the judge, as far be it from me to exaggerate when it comes to AR speakers....... http://www.ebay.com/itm/AR-Acoustic-Research-Replacement-Tweeter-for-AR2a-AR3-LST-Speakers-MT-4121-4-/152720222777?hash=item238ed5aa39:g:k~kAAOSwc8lZzEo4

Oh mystic guru and glorious crystal ball gazer, life is unforgiving! A finely tuned system won't forgive anything, nor will it hold back the beautiful truth about anything. If I'm not mistaken wasn't it AR that used the advertising words of: "Truth In Listening"? P.S. If worse was to come to worse, I have since I first spotted the "Legacy" line of speakers as an alternative speakers to the four LST's I presently listen to. Nonetheless,I'm at complete peace with the current set-up. Allow me to get back to listening to some great music that I have spinning on the turntable rite now. FM

Thanks DavidR for the exposure of these alternatives. I myself have looked at these for a while and I appreciate your seemingly forward thinking. Personally, I could never accept lesser speakers with smaller woofers than I've enjoyed with my speakers.

Everything you need or want to know is encapsulated with-in this site and you won't have to search any longer as you're here now and so you'll probably end up staying. Everything about AR speakers has been discussed here so many times over and over you are bound to be satisfied quickly. Simply search through the older posts and the like and you will find your answer and so much more information that obviously you need to have to enjoy these speakers. P.S. before you make any moves do as I have suggested and read on, read on as it may be that your dilemma will not last for long. FM

How did I miss this, this level of desperate insanity*? As good ole Arnie said: I'll be back. Right now it's 97 degrees and 'heat-factor' of 103 and I've got some "Ella"on. *Wait a minute, this type of fire was in another read. What's going on here?

Adams, just a quick note regarding what goes on with the AR-LSTs. It uses a six tap transformer which will only equally adjust the woofer and the tweeters together. The mid-range speakers remain constant and aren't affected and not varied at all. I hope this info may be of some help.

Comb filtering can be altered/corrected by using 'traps'. In my travels I felt my LSTs were affected by many reflections 'pressurizing' the room so, I used two large foam traps that to my ears substantially cleaned-up what I felt needed to be corrected. One trap was placed in each corner and to my ears the result was pleasing and certainly a solution. I might add that a parametric-equalizer would be a beneficial component. Aadams your equalizer appears to be what the same inexpensive one I purchased from R.S. in 1983. For the money it was acceptable to me however, presently it's not being used. When I installed the parametric equalizer I finally realized how much more it did to assist in getting the sound I was looking for whereas the 'graphic-equalizer' didn't add as much flexibility and I come from the 1970's school of thought that any equalizer was taboo and relegated my ears to enjoy the purity of AR's voicing. Ten years ago I purchased a TOTL mint 'Rotel' graphic and it's a beautiful piece but after using the parametrics I don't see any need for it although, in a flight of fantasy, I might in the future combined with the graphic-equalizer. Pardon this awful foto as it was cropped from a video I made while listening but, it shows what I'm speaking about.

Hi Aadams, I guess the only true opinion I could have would be if I actually heard your system to make my own determinations first hand. I'm presently struggling with the idea of stacking another set of LSTs on top of my set of four. A year ago I purchased another amp to match what I already have driving my four speakers but, lifting the additional set of speakers over six feet to place them on top of the existing set that sits on two foot stands is causing the delay. Thirty or 40 years ago I would've not hesitated but, these days doubt has set in. Other than that, I question if such a set-up is actually worth the attempt. My set-up sounds very big as it is, do I really want more? Oh, please I'm a hog for big-sound though, I must temper my fantasies with reason. On another note, I'm a dedicated fan of the AR mid-range speaker as much I am of the AR-3a 12" woofer causing me to wonder if the sound quality you're speaking of with your stacking dissimilar brand speakers is of good quality. In any event I think that you're having fun doing what you're doing so, ultimately it's appreciated. FM

I appreciate the effort and with all respects but, I don't buy it! Reminds me of when I was a kid haunting the streets of "Flatbush, Brooklyn" and "Staten Island" in the years 1957 to 1967 always looking for speakers from TV's and record players in the trash. In fact 7 years ago, I found a pair of water stained EPI V100's. I was always hoping and scheming to find something to cobble together to sound even remotely like the stuff I saw in magazines and newspapers. My only concern was to find a speaker that would be the biggest and best than I ever found before.. Although your creation may distantly resemble a Wilson TOTL monster-speaker, I doubt it'll ever come close to it. Oh, and the AR-LST comparison; I doubt your monster will ever come close to dual LST's driven by dual high-power amplifiers! In parting, again I feel that your efforts are a near noble attempt, especially in this day and age but, I still don't buy it. And, I'm not even an expert, I'm just an individual that's been playing with speakers and amps for over fifty+ years. FM

2-19-17 When I purchased my AR-9's about two years ago, the tweeters were burnt. I found this out after I had already re-foamed all of the speakers. I was fortunate as I contacted the seller and we agreed upon a $200. refund and this was done two weeks after the sale. This was done on the auction-site and I almost could tell in his dialog that he may have been aware of the tweeters being burnt but, he quickly made the refund just the same. Price I paid was $700. minus the two hundred so, overall a great deal. They're in excellent condition cosmetically, only waiting for a 're-cap'. I have many HV and ABTech spares so in essence, I was satisfied in the end. I tried 'bi-amping' them with two Phase Linear PL400's, but presently I'm using a single Phase Linear PL700 Series II. I tend to prefer the single bigger amplifier's control over them. How do I like them? Personally, I prefer my LST's as I've gotten use to them in the past 20+ years of listening to an almost non-direct speaker's output radiation of sound. I find the AR-9's still portray the AR sound, and bigger as the LST's do compared to lesser models, not louder, simply, bigger. I find the AR-9's can produce more potential volume units as they absorb wattage easily but don't absorb as much as the LST's. That is what was build into them by design, or so I've read because AR made AR-9's more 'amp-friendly'. Good luck and rest assured, they're probably AR's last top quality speaker, hands down and worth doing whatever's necessary to bring them around. They're in another class compared to previous AR models, no doubting that as I feel they have a more 'up-dated' sound, whatever that means to most of the world. Late afternoon today, I ran into a guy at B&N record dept. who claims to have custom built amps, a custom cd player and big 'Martin-Logans'. He spoke of huge Aragon amps, the last and biggest they made and expensive AC cords. I thought whooped-dee-freaking-doo. We became talkative, dropping names, etc. and we planned on hearing each other's systems. Though, it was clear that he, a CD guy and that I was 'Vinyl-guy'. He was clearly at least 10 years younger than I and I felt I shouldn't have excused his lack of not knowing certain 'vintage' stuff, because he seemed to draw a facial blank when I mentioned some of my components name's and especially their ages. He spoke of going to 'his-guy' and his 'dealer' to do his 'mods' and repairs. I also made it clear that I do my own 'mods', 'set-ups' and repairs and have so since at least 1967. Correct, 1967 and before that with my car's radios and before that with father's radios the had from the '30s and '40s that I played with as a pubescent kid before that! I almost sheepishly warned him that my system is total and completely 'vintage' except for my phono cartridges which considered 'high-end' and new. His refrain was; "don't worry", and that he claimed he understood where I was coming from. Again, whooped-dee-freaking-doo! Maybe I conceded and humbled too quickly, then again this could turn into the 'Battle of the Systems", old and new? Sorry to drop and butt-in on this post. Although, I do predict, he'll flip-out when he sees the AR-9's compared to his ML's. Not to mention my little 'LST' fest I might overwhelm him with. Either way, I plan to hear his system first and then we'll enjoy mine. FM

2-9-16 Back in 2014, when I first hooked up my newly re-foamed AR-9s, I had plenty (6) PL400s to try the ‘bi-amp’ configuration. Having never heard AR-9s in my home before, I was very excited that I could actually ‘bi-amp’, something I had read about often but never tried before. I didn’t get the pleasure I was seeking because one of the aging amps failed in a few days, then another failed, then another. Consequently, I have given up until I get those old amps rebuilt, which will probably happen later this year. But, I did a few days of listening. Obvious to me, I did not receive the effect I was expecting while the amp was running just before it gave out. What I did notice first off was that the speakers were not properly set up in the room as the speakers were sitting one third in the room when they should have been against the front wall for best bass output and balance. As it was, I found, and I could be entirely incorrect here but, the AR-9s seemed to be focused on the mid-range while lacking in the bass. At the time I felt due to improper placement . But to the point here, I felt there was an off-balance in the speakers output while using identical amps. Was it the amps at fault, the need for new capacitors in the speakers? I was feeling, that perhaps if I had a lower power amp for the mids and tweeters, it may have been the better way to go? I didn’t have any smaller amps besides a Dyna ST-35 so, I never got the chance to try it that way. It’s been sitting ever since as shown in the foto. As with the LSTs, I felt the PL400s ran out of steam when attempting realistic sound levels trying to power all of those drivers. At some point later this year I will make a better attempt and report back. fm