Where to find 10" Bass Drivers for AR9LS

[metalmark]

Hi Guys,
I'm new here, long time AK member and that's how i got here.
I have a pair of AR9LS that i bought of a guy that played them with the 10" Bass drivers foam surrounds where perished..
Now i have 2 dead 10" Bass drivers...
Question is, What other AR Models used these 10" Bass drivers?
as want to find a donor pair from another pair or AR's ..to fix my delema
Thanks In Advance
Cheers!
MetalHead Mark

[nefertem]

Hi Mark i live close to Boston my friend had a pair for sale but his woofers were the same as yours you might just have to find a close replacement because i dont think AR sold many of that model compaired to the Original 9s or other models

[JKent]

Welcome Mark

You might try contacting Bill LeGall of Millersound to see if he can repair your damaged drivers. If anyone can, he can. Other members may be able to advise you on which other speakers used that driver so be patient. Also, I will be picking up a cache of AR speaker parts next week and will offer them for sale here. One of our members passed away and I'm helping his wife sell off some of the accumulated "stuff."

-Kent

[alkermes]

I see metalmark is in Oz, not likely to be a lot of AR9LS drivers down under.  Hope you get it sorted, the CSP members are on the case.

I was not 100% sure though, did you mean the previous owner played the speakers after the foam was gone and now they don't work, or is it more simply that the foam is gone?

[JKent]

2 hours ago, alkermes said:

I see metalmark is in Oz

ooops. Sorry, I missed that. That WILL make it more challenging.

[metalmark]

Hi,
and thanks for the replies..
yes i am way dowm under in the southwest corner of Australia..
Yes the previous guy played them with the foam surrounds perrished...
making the voice coils rub till they died..
So I need them to get recoiled (something I can't do)
and refoamed (something I can do) ..
Was hoping that I could find a donor pair of AR (insert Model name here)
that I can find and get my AR9LS back up and runnng..
Cheers from OZ...

[frankmarsi]

The big auction site may be the only source for you, I don't understand why folks haven't recommended this from the start.

I have purchased hundreds of items and many that comprise my system that are functioning as I expected-excellent.

It takes a trained eye and familiarity with what you are seeking along with accurate communication with the 'seller' to assure oneself

that you are getting something in good condition and is the correct part. Caution is necessary as the there are 'crack-pots' all over the world.

FM

[Stimpy]

I did look at eBay.au for AR woofers, but found nothing.  Though, I guess you could search other eBay sites, and hope replacements could be shipped for cheap.  Otherwise, I'd look for woofers, with a similar impedance, just to at least get the speakers up and running.  While not optimal, it's no fun not playing 9LS speakers either!  In the meantime, while searching for replacements, maybe someone could rebuild the originals too?

[Stimpy]

What's the impedance of the 9LS 10" woofers?  There are a couple of 10" AR92 woofers on the U.S. eBay.  The ad mentions worldwide shipping.  Could they work?

[frankmarsi]

I've purchased expensive 'High-End' cartridges, each more than a few thousand dollars from Europe, tonearms for similar costs from Japan, and have been very satisfied.

Granted, there are times with certain purchases when it sometimes felt like a crap-shoot, and at times worry would set in but come-on, why the mushy and sheltering attitudes here?  Foam surround sets and voice-coil sets are available these days. I realize that in this country we live in a 'service economy' but, doesn't anyone do their own repairs anymore? I realize that cars have been designed so no one can really do their own repairs these days but, we're talking 4 screws and a screwdriver here. It's not brain surgery.

In 1989  not a single source was available for foam surrounds. I located only one fellow in S.Carolina who offered the joined kind, I certainly didn't have any sources for tweeters until I spoke to Mark Levinson and he properly advised me to call AR directly because his were $90. and directly from AR's they were $40. The tweeters were identical.

These are old speakers, what could a used AR 10 woofer for it cost, $50. or so?

But, to advise using an incorrect woofer or midrange from another manufacturer is surely not the way to go. The AR woofer and mids are cabinet specific and more importantly "AR" sound-quality specific. Though tweeter substitutions can be more flexible. Changing to something else from another manufacturer is not in the AR cook book.  AR woofers are different in their suspensions compared to an alien speaker and should never be substituted with another brand.

[AR surround]

Mark,

You can try Larry at vintage-ar.  The last time I spoke to him, he had AR OEM 10" woofers available.   His ebay store is:

http://stores.ebay.com/VINTAGE-AR-PARTS-AND-SERVICE?_rdc=1

[michiganpat]

since it's essentially used as a subwoofer, you may be able to look at the chamber volume, and try find a 10" driver with T-S parameters and the same impedance as the original to work until you can find original drivers or get yours fixed.  with the downward firing and slotted output chamber, I think the calculations for a 4th order bandpass box would be the most applicable.

I don't know if the 10" down firing woofer is the same as the main driver on a 92LS, in which case you could probably substitute any 10" woofer from a newer 2ax all the way up to the TSW series in a pinch....

[RoyC]

The LS 10 inch down firing drivers I've measured have all been 4 ohms. The 2ax woofer and its cousins are 8 ohm drivers. Although there probably is one,  I'm not aware of another AR model with this woofer. The cabinet hole dimensions are the same.

AR Surround: OEM AR woofers have not been available for a long time. Replacements are "similar", and fit the cabinet holes.

Roy

[Pete B]

Is the 10" sealed off from the 12" or do they share a chamber?

Anyone have a schematic for the crossover?

[Stimpy]

This is the 9LSi schematic.  It shows parallel wiring of the woofers.  And from memory, I believe the 2 woofers share the same volume, since you have to remove the 12" woofer first, when accessing the 10" woofer, in order to repair surrounds.  Plus, with parallel wiring, I would have 'guessed' that both woofers were 8 Ohm?  Maybe not.

 

 

[ra.ra]

Stimpy's post shows the "improved" schematic. The schematic of the original 9LS differs in a few areas, but also has woofers wired in parallel within the same chamber. The only driver with its own separate chamber is the lower midrange. The full AR drawing has additional dimensional info.

 

[Pete B]

Thanks for all the info.  I find it strange having a 10" and 12" wired in parallel and 

sharing the chamber.  I suppose that if the T&S parameters are right it can be made

to work well.  

It would be good to get the T&S parameters if at all possible.

I'm pretty sure that Bill at Miller Sound can get voice coils so he should be able to 

rebuild the woofers.  I understand that his prices are reasonable.

Also, doesn't make sense to have the 4 ohm 12" in parallel with a 4 ohm 10" - what was

the rated impedance of this system?

Edit:  I see now that you are in Australia, try to find out who might be able to rebuild them 

there and if they take one apart and measure the voice coil dimensions perhaps Bill would

find a replacement and spider to send you.  Are they open circuit now?

[michiganpat]

6 hours ago, RoyC said:

The LS 10 inch down firing drivers I've measured have all been 4 ohms. The 2ax woofer and its cousins are 8 ohm drivers. Although there probably is one,  I'm not aware of another AR model with this woofer. The cabinet hole dimensions are the same.

AR Surround: OEM AR woofers have not been available for a long time. Replacements are "similar", and fit the cabinet holes.

Roy

their DC resistance is 4 ohm? typically when I've measured advertised "8 ohm impedance" drivers, DC resistance is in the 5-7ohm range.....haven't measured many 4 ohm drivers, but IIRC aren't "4 ohm impedance" AR 12" woofers typically ~2.5 ohm in DC resistance?

wow, that's a different duck with the 10 and 12 sharing the same chamber.....and such a large chamber.  maybe 4th order bandpass isn't appropriate, as typically the 2 chambers are similar in size....

if I had to swag, you'd be looking for something with low FS, moderate to high Qts, and moderate VAS....maybe something like these:

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-10-woofers/scanspeak-discovery-26w/8534g-10-aluminum-cone-woofer-8-ohm/

IIRC if you get a DVC woofer, you can theoretically shape the Q by hooking up one voice coil, and then either leaving the other open, shorted, or with a resistor between the non-driven voice coil's leads....

 

[ra.ra]

9 hours ago, RoyC said:

Although there probably is one,  I'm not aware of another AR model with this woofer.

Roy, I was curious about this, too, and while I found some online discussion that the 9LS used the same 10" woofer found in the AR-14 and AR-48, I am pretty sure that statement is incorrect - - those models use the XXX040 woofer. At least one other model that used the 033 woofer, I believe, is the AR-92. 

I just wanted to comment on the interesting style of this cabinet construction. Not only is that bottom void chamber for the down-facing 10" woofer rather unique (it was lined with foam, yes?), but the "look" of a front box sliding inside a slightly larger rear box was a very conscious visual decision that definitely had cost implications. And while the 9LS had the black front with red text, I think the 9LSi (improved) presented a veneered front face without the graphics.

 

 

[metalmark]

Thanks Guys,
you all know alot about these old girls.
Looks like i am going to chat with the guys at vintage-ar. and see if i can get some parts to get them going again..
the AR9LSi is a much better look... as the black baffle and printed graphics is not as nice as the timber veneer..
i will keep you posted..
now i got to get my AR11 out of storage and see what problems they have... LOL
Cheers from Down under!

[Stimpy]

I found this in a search, from member Robert_S:

"The AR-925 used essentially the same drivers as the AR-92, but the crossover did not include the (-3 / -6 / 0 dB) level controls for the mid and high range. The cabinet was similar in form factor to the AR-94.

I had a pair for a while, and very much enjoyed their sound. Recently, I sourced and repaired a second pair for a friend which now see frequent use in a photographic studio. They've met with apt praise in that location.

Worth buying? If the aesthetic and sound quality fit with the environment and requirement, and such things matter to you (or for spares). They worked surprisingly well in that particular studio-kitchen setting (despite the non-optimum placement), fairly inconspicuous with their brown tops and sleeves against a side brick wall. (Ideally—say, wall mounted AR-LST would have been my preferrence, funds allowing. I digress.)

Note, of the four units I've refoamed, one had the later Tonegen woofer (1-2100330B 863TNB), the other three had the AR 200033-0 woofer. All had round magnets, with the surround foam attached to the back the cone.

Robert_S"

So, it seems that the AR 200033-0 woofer, used in the 9LS, was also used in the AR92 and AR925.  Plus, the Tonegen woofer, 1-2100330B 863TNB, might work as well.  As such, the AR92 woofers, that I linked earlier in the thread, could work for the OP. 

 

[Stimpy]

More possibilities from member Jim:

"I can help you with part numbers but the rest would be best left up to some of the others.

The part number for the AR 90 woofer is 1200031-0

the part number for the AR 92 is 1210033-2 same as the (9ls ,30b,28bx,28bxi)

But some like my early (9LS have the 200033-0)

Hope that helps some. this is from a 1992 parts list

JIm"

Adding up,  more woofers (and sources) that could work:  200033-0, 1210033-2, and 1-2100330B 863TNB.

 

[Stimpy]

Well, Simply Speakers sells this woofer, with the claim that it'll work in the 9LS(i).  But, they say it'll work for both the 90's and 92's too.  More of a generic one-size-fits-all replacement, I suppose?

[ra.ra]

57 minutes ago, Stimpy said:

As such, the AR92 woofers, that I linked earlier in the thread, could work for the OP.

Apologies for overlooking this earlier comment, but I'd agree that you are correct with this statement, and Robert_S is always on top of these details. The AR-925 is identical to the AR-92, but revised for the Euro market, and does not include the MF and HF switches. Similarly, the AR-915 (Euro) and AR-91 (U.S.). I'd say that any variety of the 033 woofer is probably suitable here.

[RoyC]

32 minutes ago, ra.ra said:

Apologies for overlooking this earlier comment, but I'd agree that you are correct with this statement, and Robert_S is always on top of these details. The AR-925 is identical to the AR-92, but revised for the Euro market, and does not include the MF and HF switches. Similarly, the AR-915 (Euro) and AR-91 (U.S.). I'd say that any variety of the 033 woofer is probably suitable here.

Agreed, ra.ra...In fact, the differences between most of the AR 10 inch (and 8 inch) paper cone woofers are not dramatic, and should be even less so if used in a down firing position. Any slight differences have to do with extension into the midrange frequencies.

Stimpy:  That Simply Speakers woofer is no longer available, and Simply Speakers has none to sell. AB Tech was selling "oem-like" replacements to sellers like SS and Vintage AR for a long time until going out of business. These China sourced drivers varied in response between batches, and some were better than others.

To be more specific regarding my earlier post, I re-foamed 4 original AR-9LS 10 inch down firing woofers about a year ago. Dcr measured around 3.5 ohms for each of them. (The AR 8 ohm 10" variants usually measure around 6 ohms dcr.)

Roy