Stimpy Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, RoyC said: To be more specific regarding my earlier post, I re-foamed 4 original AR-9LS 10 inch down firing woofers about a year ago. Dcr measured around 3.5 ohms for each of them. (The AR 8 ohm 10" variants usually measure around 6 ohms dcr.) Roy Thanks Roy. Also, I find it amazing that AR had these 2 low impedance woofers wired in parallel! And without the AR9's crossover impedance circuit. The 9LS speakers must be a heck of a load to drive? It makes be glad that I only have AR90's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 46 minutes ago, RoyC said: .....and should be even less so if used in a down firing position. Wow, what a great point, how did we omit that crucial part of this discussion? On axis?..... not applicable. Off axis?....not really applicable either. It seems to me that the sound emitted from this 10" driver rumbles around in a tight padded chamber before it leaks out near the floor line to somehow fill in the spectrum with its assigned frequencies. This is by no means a suggestion that this driver is of marginal importance - - in fact, it is vital - - but it appears to perform more like a typical subwoofer than any other front-facing LF driver more normally seen in AR speakers up to this date of manufacture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 3 hours ago, metalmark said: Looks like i am going to chat with the guys at vintage-ar. and see if i can get some parts to get them going again.. Mark, Vintage-AR is a good resource but even he won't be able to provide an original AR9LS 10" driver. IMHO you'd be better off using almost any AR 10" driver. Another thought: These cheap "close-out" woofers ($16 USD) may work: https://www.parts-express.com/tc-1024-10-ribbed-paper-cone-woofer-with-foam-surround-4-ohm--299-2180 -Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 Down firing woofers are tricky due to the fact that the cone sags and obviously the amount depends on the mass of the cone and compliance of the suspension. If they were smart they would have offset the voice coil to compensate for the shift. Also, the T&S parameters have to be carefully chosen to work "properly" with the 12". A random 10" that fits is not a good choice. If your woofers are open circuit and you take one apart it would be good to measure the cone and voice coil on a scale, and all the dimensions of the voice coil. If you are able to measure cone displacement, add mass (coins work) and measure the movement of the cone in free air to determine the spring constant before you take it apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 14 minutes ago, JKent said: Mark, Vintage-AR is a good resource but even he won't be able to provide an original AR9LS 10" driver. IMHO you'd be better off using almost any AR 10" driver. Another thought: These cheap "close-out" woofers ($16 USD) may work: https://www.parts-express.com/tc-1024-10-ribbed-paper-cone-woofer-with-foam-surround-4-ohm--299-2180 -Kent Kent, VAR has in fact recently sent out the 8 ohm version of this woofer as an AR replacement after I found it to work fairly well in a pair of 2ax's (with a change to a larger inductor). The cone is lighter and the suspension is stiffer than the typical AR woofer, so perhaps it has more of the attributes suggested by Pete. I suppose if AR had been "smart" about this arrangement they would have used a woofer with a cloth surround in this location. On the other hand, the space it fires into is always full of rotten foam as well. Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 Consider that you want the 12" and 10" to reach max excursion at the same applied input power, which requires the correct parameters and impedance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 15 minutes ago, Pete B said: Consider that you want the 12" and 10" to reach max excursion at the same applied input power, which requires the correct parameters and impedance. Hi Pete, I wonder if AR actually had that all worked out. I also wonder how long these down-firing woofers were operating "normally" as the foam surrounds gradually weakened and decomposed. The LS was an odd model for AR, especially for the era. Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michiganpat Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 https://www.midwestspeakerrepair.com/mw-audio-mw-5010-10-inch-woofer based on what you know of AR 10 inchers, how does this driver compare, Roy? I'm guessing Midwest has this made by MISCO. IIRC the old Eclipse 10" Meniscus audio used to sell (also made by MISCO in minneapolis) models very well in a 2ax sized box.... Here's a link to the specs on MISCO's website http://www.miscospeakers.com/speakers/OC10W-8D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 Are the inductors 17 Ga air core? Would not be surprised if the total inductor DCR was 1.5 ohms or more. Then 3||4 + 1.5 = 3.2 ohms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 5 hours ago, michiganpat said: https://www.midwestspeakerrepair.com/mw-audio-mw-5010-10-inch-woofer based on what you know of AR 10 inchers, how does this driver compare, Roy? I'm guessing Midwest has this made by MISCO. IIRC the old Eclipse 10" Meniscus audio used to sell (also made by MISCO in minneapolis) models very well in a 2ax sized box.... Here's a link to the specs on MISCO's website http://www.miscospeakers.com/speakers/OC10W-8D Hey Pat, your links show two different woofers. The woofer in the Midwest link has a much larger magnet (and is significantly more sensitive), larger voice coil, and requires a larger cut out than than the AR woofer(s). Enlarging the LS cabinet hole would not be easy, given its location. At $90+/- each I wouldn't take a chance on it. The woofer in Kent's link is much closer to the typical AR 10 inch woofer. Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 4 hours ago, Pete B said: Are the inductors 17 Ga air core? Would not be surprised if the total inductor DCR was 1.5 ohms or more. Then 3||4 + 1.5 = 3.2 ohms By the early 80's I believe AR was using 18ga air core inductors. Certainly nothing heavier than 17ga. Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 Too bad they don't sell this as 4 or 8 ohm - have not tried one so no idea of the quality - just use the parts that you need, keep your cone since it has the correct mass: http://reconingspeakers.com/product/ar-10-1-5-vc-aftermarket-recone-kit/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 This might work, but as I said the T&S parameters are important to get right: https://www.parts-express.com/grs-10sw-4-10-poly-cone-subwoofer-4-ohm--292-482 Don't know if the dimensions are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 2 hours ago, Pete B said: This might work, but as I said the T&S parameters are important to get right: https://www.parts-express.com/grs-10sw-4-10-poly-cone-subwoofer-4-ohm--292-482 Don't know if the dimensions are right. The dimensions look good, Pete. The price is right for experimentation. Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michiganpat Posted September 18, 2017 Report Share Posted September 18, 2017 On 9/16/2017 at 12:30 PM, RoyC said: Hey Pat, your links show two different woofers. The woofer in the Midwest link has a much larger magnet (and is significantly more sensitive), larger voice coil, and requires a larger cut out than than the AR woofer(s). Enlarging the LS cabinet hole would not be easy, given its location. At $90+/- each I wouldn't take a chance on it. The woofer in Kent's link is much closer to the typical AR 10 inch woofer. Roy yeah, I know they're different...the 2nd one from MISCO's website is what Meniscus used to sell as the 10" "eclipse" woofer.... guess I didn't pay close enough attention to the physical dimensions of the first one.... I have some Eminence 10" subwoofers that probably would be a good fit, as they model very nicely in a 2ax or AR3 sized cabinet.....shipping to Australia probably would not be cheap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michiganpat Posted September 18, 2017 Report Share Posted September 18, 2017 wonder how this would work.... http://www.humanspeakers.com/diy/parts/031.htm or is the basket 1/8" too large? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlspeak Posted September 18, 2017 Report Share Posted September 18, 2017 Hue hand builds all of his woofers. I retrofitted one of his 8 inch models into a cabinet that had a similar, slightly over-size issue. I used a Dremel tool with a cylinder abrasive tool to hand grind the rabbet out to fit the new woofer. It just takes patience. I can't speak for the 10 inch working well in the AR though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmark Posted March 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 Hi Guys, Metal mark here in Perth.. Thought i better update the going on with my ar9ls .. there is a guy selling a beat up pair of ar92 speakers foam surrounds are shot.. but says they are working.. so from what i have read the 10" bass driver from the AR92 is the same unit as what is used in a ar9ls ? Cheers! Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fedeleluigi Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 5 hours ago, metalmark said: so from what i have read the 10" bass driver from the AR92 is the same unit as what is used in a ar9ls ? As you can see here (http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library/acoustic_research/special_sections/additional_ar_documents/ar_parts_list_price_sheet_n/ar_parts_list_price_sheet_n_3.html) the AR 200033 woofer and later the Tonegen 1210033-0 woofer (used from about 1985 and later on) was used in AR 92 (and 925), 9LS and 9LSI, 30b, 28bx, 28bxi and AR Sub Woofer. Hope this can help you to find the correct woofers for your 9LS. Luigi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR55 Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 In addition to the AR-92, I believe that the following speakers have the same 4 ohm, 10" woofers (200033/210033) as the 9Ls: AR-30b, AR-28bx & AR-28bxi, so you may want to expand your search to include those models. I have occasionally seen AR-92's parted out on eBay. The other speakers not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmark Posted March 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 Thanks guys, will go get them ar92 that are local and use the 10" bass drivers from them. will update (with pics) once i go through the refoam process etc.. cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stimpy Posted March 12, 2018 Report Share Posted March 12, 2018 Don't be too hard on the donor AR92s, as they are a very good speaker also. Maybe once the 10's are reformed, fix up one 9LS, and compare it to a refoamed 92. I'd be curious as to how they compare, in the mids and highs? Not much chance for the 92s to compare with the 9LS, in bass response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmark Posted March 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2018 Thanks Stimpy, I picked up the AR92 donors ... and are actually in good condition.. apart from foam surrounds and the spongey stuff around the tweeters (toasted) yes i will have to do a comparison.. my AR list is getting Big. (I think i have a Problem) AR2ax, AR3a, AR9, AR91, AR11, AR92, AR9LS .. (and a kerb find AR28) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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