DavidDru Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 What am I not seeing here beyond that crazy high price they sold for? http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-Acoustic-Research-AR-3-SPEAKERS/282611068645?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlspeak Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 You are not seeing the list of collectors that were lined up to buy them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidDru Posted August 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlspeak Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Why do people collect anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR surround Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 This one is a "bargain." Another pair sold on ebay on August 11 for almost $3100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stimpy Posted August 30, 2017 Report Share Posted August 30, 2017 Another pair of AR3's for 'only' $4999.99...??? I wouldn't think these will sell, since there are no pictures of the speaker fronts, with the grills removed. But, crazy things happen. AR3's on eBay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidDru Posted August 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 Was there anything particularly different about this pair that makes them more collectible than others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankmarsi Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 I wouldn't pay these amounts for AR-3's even if any one here were giving me the money to buy them. This is absurd without any doubts. I was there in the beginning of the real hi-fi days and have always been a proponent of sound reproduction being as good as possible within reasonable constraints, which caused me to always stretch my dollars to at least offer me some degree of 'real' sounding music for my mind and soul's journeys. I've been seeing the market increase all along as I'm always surfing and I found it amusing at first but, now it's at a point of ridiculous. This 'thing with 3's reminds me of my early auditioning days back in the late sixties and early seventies. Toe to toe the 3a's always beat out the 3's hands down for me in 1972 just before I finally decided to get a set of 3a's. I sought out every piece of literature and test reports I could find from practically every source that was available to the common man, in this case me. When I found the lowest price of $196. each, I took them home and struggled to hear cymbals and other high frequency tones. I had assumed this was the way it was supposed to be but, I wasn't completely satisfied. I hungered for more related knowledge, it came in the form of amplification principles and I learned back then that for an AR speaker to approach more realism of sound, it would require higher power. Bingo, Bob Carver comes out with super-power amplifiers, the most power ever offered to the public at the time. That was after the first two years of ownership then, with-in months I also learned of "Micro-Acoustic's" auxiliary tweeter array purchased them and finally my transducers were complete. The 3's were always more muted than the 3a's, besides, even AR touted that the 3a's were the best speakers they knew how to build. Afterward they come out with the LST because they improved their concept of producing their 'best speaker we know how to make' stance. Then the AR-9 comes out and in terms of the amount of high frequency information blows all of their earlier speakers out of the house in power handling. I'm sorry but if one favors the 3's or anyother early AR speaker without improving and enhancing their speaker's high frequencies beyond adhering to the silly 'vintage thing' you're listening to one boring and sonically dead stereo system, period. Wake-up and admit that fact or, go back to sleep because you've missed the boat and haven't progressed. If we were talking the LST's then I could see tops 3 grand at best but, they would have to be completely and correctly refurbished and that's including new and better resolving tweeters- that could handle strong program material. None of this low dull, sonically dead listening sessions for me, I need some degree of realism. I don't play or think the vintage sound 'thing' is great just now because I'm newly discovering it, heck, I've been using AR's most of my adult life which I purchased over 45 years ago. I've worked up the ladder to better listening, AR's are not 'new' to me. And though I may be married to my LST's, I've been known to fool around too. Because of certain other enhancements that feed my speakers, I have reached new heights that I've always strived for all these years. Only recently, has my system completely and totally satisfied me like never before and it's primarily because of what my AR's are being feed in terms of inputs and the better quality of those inputs. Here, see this link, yes, it gets worse, and take note of his meter readings, a joke. Look at this craziness: http://www.ebay.com/itm/AR-model-1-vintage-acoustic-research-PAIR-12-in-woofers-inv-jblaltec123456789-/192293474722?hash=item2cc59591a2:g:7LIAAOSwWLFZoz74 P.S. the auction site just now 3 days after admits the price was incorrect, we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nefertem Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 Hi Frank i used to work for Appogee Acoustics for two years in 1990 so i heard there reference system and i will agree with you theres a limit on any speakers i would consider a big improvment over my modest system ps they looked down at the AR3 speakers but i dont see there speakers surving in popularity like the vintage AR speakers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankmarsi Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 Hi, I don't recall if it was the "Stage" Apogees or the next bigger one up in their line at a Hi-Fi presentation/show I attended in NYC in 1990. They were driven by a Mark Levinson amplifier whose model number escapes me also. Well, it was one of the best speakers I've heard so far, big in their sound, tight, fast and inspiring. I don't understand why they went out of business, maybe it was their high cost, maybe it was simply the current times. I look for the Apogees in my travels but, they rarely show up. At an attractive price, I'd get them but, like I said, they must've been costly to repair then if at all possible today almost 30 years later and there probably aren't any parts either. Sad, they had an excellent sound quality. My LST speakers didn't last long in production ('72 to '76), their high cost, difficult to position in most rooms, cumbersome in cabinet design and because of the sheer number of drivers, I guess some felt it was a dog to repair (it is), and further feared because of their 90LB.weight. Not to mention the necessity of proper stands. By the low-mid to late seventies, AR was doing everything they could to increase the high-frequency response of their tweeters, like 'ferro-fluid', the AR-11 tweeter, etc. Prior to that AR offered their little auxiliary cabinet which housed a mid and a tweeter. Obviously, AR was admitting that their portrayal of high-frequencies left much to be desired and I agreed then as I do now. I'm feed up with the way the 3's are being thought of as the greatest speakers in the world. You know, maybe the 3a's in their time were but, now in the present, many things have changed as to what is considered accurate and true to musical sound reproduction. Many here have never used AR's back in the hay-day, too bad, they missed a lot. To drool over them today is foolish unless modifications have been made, certainly more and better tweeters. It merely admits that many were not enjoying AR's when they had their 1/3 market share back in the mid-sixties and these current fans are simply the, 'johnny-come-lately' type of folks. I understand because I read the current magazines in paper format and some on the web, that the cost of really good quality equipment is astronomical and actually absurd but at least upgrade these old beasts to sound better than they did 50 years ago. I've always felt AR's dome mid-range and their 12 inch 'classic' woofers are certainly excellent but, their high range speakers except for their excellent angle of dispersion are the saddest tweeters around prior to the AR11. In 1972 with my newly purchased AR-3a's and AR XA turntable, Dynaco tubed preamplifier and tubed amp I thought I had the greatest thing that ever blossomed in that era. And, if it was the only thing I had today, I might secretly feel that same way inside but, I wouldn't act like they're so great, because they're not the be-all speaker in stock form especially these days. Back then, it was all about things getting better and better with each new development and improved piece or equipment. Amplifiers became much more powerful, and because of this, inefficient speakers of the time stepped up a notch and became more revealing due to more watts. I, like other vintage speaker owners are enamored with a certain type of sound, I get that, but, you can't just sit there and listen to a system that sounds like it did 50 years ago, high fidelity has moved on as I and many back then hoped it would. Better quality input sources to me are 'key' to better sound quality once the speakers are also brought up to somewhat more contemporary status. I've experienced many things since, but the world of high fidelity has continually changed also. In my opinion, listening to 45 to 50+ year old speakers that haven't been modified in the high frequency region along with low-power and shitty input sources is akin to going to an assisted living facility looking for young hot chics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phxjohn Posted August 31, 2017 Report Share Posted August 31, 2017 I guess I am okay. With, an Ortofon Quintet Blue, NAD C272 power amp, and Vintage AR restored 3a's with the HiVi Q1R tweeters, cymbal strikes are explosive. Nothing dull about my pair ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidDru Posted September 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2017 23 hours ago, frankmarsi said: Hi, I don't recall if it was the "Stage" Apogees or the next bigger one up in their line at a Hi-Fi presentation/show I attended in NYC in 1990. They were driven by a Mark Levinson amplifier whose model number escapes me also. Well, it was one of the best speakers I've heard so far, I won't compare it to anything else on this site as it was terrific sounding. I don't understand why they went out, maybe it was their high cost, maybe it was simply the current times. I look for the Apogees in my travels but, they never show up. At an attractive price, I'd get them but, like I said, they must've been costly to repair then if at all possible today almost 30 years later there probably not any parts either. Sad, they had an excellent sound quality. My LST speakers didn't last long either ('72 to '76), their high cost, difficult to position in most rooms, cumbersome in cabinet design and because of the sheer number of drivers, I guess some felt it was a dog to repair (it is), and further feared because of their weight. Not to mention the necessity of proper stands. By the late seventies, AR was doing everything they could to increase the high-frequency response of their tweeters, like 'ferro-fluid', the AR-11 tweeter, etc. Obviously, AR was admitting that their portrayal of high-frequencies left much to be desired. I'm feed up with the way the 3's are being thought of as the greatest speakers in the world. You know, maybe the 3a's in their time were but, now in the present, many things have changed as to what is considered accurate and true to musical sound reproduction. Many here have never used AR's back in the hay-day, too bad, they missed a lot. To revel over them today is foolish unless modifications have been made, certainly more and better tweeters. It merely admits that many were not enjoying AR's when they had their 1/3 market share back in the mid-sixties and these current fans are simply the, 'johnny-come-lately' type of folks. I understand because I read the current magazines in paper format and some on the web, that the cost of really good quality equipment is astronomical and actually absurd but at least upgrade these old beasts to sound better than they did 50 years ago. I've always felt AR's dome mid-range and their 12 inch 'classic' woofers are certainly excellent but, their high range speakers except for their excellent angle of dispersion are the saddest tweeters around prior to the AR11. In 1972 with my newly purchased AR-3a's and AR XA turntable, Dynaco tubed preamplifier and tubed amp I thought I had the greatest thing that ever blossomed in that era. And, if it was the only thing I had today, I might secretly feel that same way inside but, I wouldn't act like they're so great, because they're not the be-all speaker in stock form especially these days. Back then, it was all about things getting better and better with each new development and improved piece or equipment. Amplifiers became much more powerful, and because of this, inefficient speakers of the time stepped up a notch and became more revealing due to more watts. I, like other vintage speaker owners are enamored with a certain type of sound, I get that, but, you can't just sit there and listen to a system that sounds like it did 50 years ago, high fidelity has moved on as I and many back then hoped it would. Better quality input sources to me are 'key' to better sound quality once the speakers are also brought up to somewhat more contemporary status. I've experienced many things since, but the world of high fidelity has continually changed also. In my opinion, listening to 45 to 50+ year old speakers that haven't been modified in the high frequency region along with low-power and shitty input sources is akin to going to an assisted living facility looking for young hot chics. Frank, I actually have a pair of Apogee. Many of the key parts are still available with most being upgrades through a company called Apogee Acoustics. They are down under in Australia and the owner is Graeme Keet (Graz is what most know him by). I purchased replacement ribbons for mine about 2 years ago. Well worth the investment. Apogee Acoustics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankmarsi Posted September 1, 2017 Report Share Posted September 1, 2017 On 8/31/2017 at 10:45 PM, DavidDru said: Frank, I actually have a pair of Apogee. Many of the key parts are still available with most being upgrades through a company called Apogee Acoustics. They are down under in Australia and the owner is Graeme Keet (Graz is what most know him by). I purchased replacement ribbons for mine about 2 years ago. Well worth the investment. Apogee Acoustics Thanks DavidDru, you've just given me a reason to ponder future possibilities of new systems. Which ones do you have? It's not that my AR-LST's are getting boring, no, far from it but, those Apogees were surely most attractive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stimpy Posted September 1, 2017 Report Share Posted September 1, 2017 Graz builds some very well received replacement ribbons for Apogee speakers. Plus, a few years back, Graz even engineered and built a replacement EMIM diaphragm, for Infinity speakers. Owners that upgraded, felt the new diaphragm was far superior to the original. But, there was some griping about the cost of the replacement parts. Some felt it too high, to allow for a reasonable cost expenditure, to upgrade something like an IRS-1A/B, that use multiple EMIM's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonnar Posted September 1, 2017 Report Share Posted September 1, 2017 The reason for AR 3's high prices is probably because it's one of the few speakers that sounds like real music , no spectacular artifacts . Its tweeter is better than the 3a' s one , linear , sparkling and shiny, open high frequencies vs. the AR 3a roll off , a slightly deeper and faster bass with a more linear mid-bass . I drive my four AR 3 with a Crown Macro Tech 2402 ( 2007 ) and a QSC 280 ( 2010 ) , modern class AB amps stable on every load and I have the best sound ever heard in 43 years of hi-fi . Best regards , Adriano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted September 1, 2017 Report Share Posted September 1, 2017 I don't get the rock throwing either Sonnar but opinions are just meaningless when compared to results. People....the AR3 is valued highly in parts of Asia and Europe...and we should be dancing and high fiving...not throwing rocks because you value your opinion. This is a site dedicated to vintage and classic audio if I remember correctly. Put the rocks away.....it is tiring...and contributes nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonnar Posted September 1, 2017 Report Share Posted September 1, 2017 AR 3 was an innovative, revolutionary speaker , the very first speaker of the modern era . Its sound isn' t dull or obsolete , its mid and high range is directly comparable with the best british speakers like Spendor or Harbeth or ProAc , while AR 3's bass has no competitors . Obviously , IMHO . Cheers , Adriano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar_pro Posted September 1, 2017 Report Share Posted September 1, 2017 "and we should be dancing and high fiving. " True, that. I celebrate the AR-3's new valuation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR surround Posted September 1, 2017 Report Share Posted September 1, 2017 3 hours ago, Sonnar said: The reason for AR 3's high prices is probably because it's one of the few speakers that sounds like real music , no spectacular artifacts . Its tweeter is better than the 3a' s one , linear , sparkling and shiny, open high frequencies vs. the AR 3a roll off , a slightly deeper and faster bass with a more linear mid-bass . I drive my four AR 3 with a Crown Macro Tech 2402 ( 2007 ) and a QSC 280 ( 2010 ) , modern class AB amps stable on every load and I have the best sound ever heard in 43 years of hi-fi . Best regards , Adriano Having had AR5's, AR3a's and AR7's, I've always felt that the Classic AR's sounded superior with acoustic and classical music...and they probably still do. They did not sound so great with rock music which by definition is made of spectacular artifacts. But I am curious as to why AR would deliver the AR3a with a tweeter that is inferior to the that in the AR3? Anyway, I'm glad that all of you AR3 owners love your babies. Hang onto them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan461 Posted September 1, 2017 Report Share Posted September 1, 2017 I owned the AR3 & AR3a simultaneously for quite some time. Eventually sold the AR3 to free up some space. I never felt the AR3a was superior or inferior to the AR3. Just different. But that's me. I enjoy both deep dish pizza, thin crust or Sicilian. I totally agree with AR Surround. AR is best for Acoustic and classical music. And to all AR lovers and owners (including myself), I'm sorry, but I have heard better speakers. Without a doubt. Can't afford a lot of them but that's my problem not the manufacturers. When I bought my AR3s & AR3As, they were cheap. But if you can get $5,000+ for a set of AR3s, more power to ya. So let's just enjoy the gems we own and love and get the most out of them. “Comparison is the thief of joy.” — Theodore Roosevelt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonnar Posted September 1, 2017 Report Share Posted September 1, 2017 Surely there are some better sounding speakers , but what do You mean for better sounding ? An Electro Voice QRX 153/75 has an explosive , " live " dynamic , very close to real music ; an electrostatic speaker has marvelous mid-highs , but no solid bass and no dynamic ; very few speakers have the tonal coherence over the wide range as AR vintage speakers, that brings into your room a reasonably scaled down reproduction of the original orchestra . Of course , I 'm referring to classical and acoustical instruments . AR 3's tweeter it's not better than 3a's one : 3a has a wider dispersion but also a lower sensitivity and a roll off in the 5 Khz/20Khz frequencies , while AR 3's tweeter has an absolutely linear response in axis until 20 Khz , probably it has higher sensitivity : but ask Tom Tyson to have a better explanation. I have also AR 3a , that are my second favourite speakers , and a vintage Altec/JBL horn system that I use to listen old jazz recordings and rock music , but it' s a different story. Cheers , Adriano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phxjohn Posted September 2, 2017 Report Share Posted September 2, 2017 Now there is a pair on 3's on Ebay for $4,999.99. I think it is absurd as the cabinets are quite rough. Age is no excuse. My 3a cabinets are perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonnar Posted September 2, 2017 Report Share Posted September 2, 2017 I agree , 4999 $ it 's absurd. But vintagist and collectors are very particular people , they spend a lot of money to buy old , obsolete , unreliable and very bad sounding SS amps , while today we have the chance of modern design , super reliable , extremely powerful amps stable on every load , great sounding amps, at very affordable prices . Adriano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR surround Posted September 2, 2017 Report Share Posted September 2, 2017 2 hours ago, Sonnar said: I agree , 4999 $ it 's absurd. But vintagist and collectors are very particular people , they spend a lot of money to buy old , obsolete , unreliable and very bad sounding SS amps , while today we have the chance of modern design , super reliable , extremely powerful amps stable on every load , great sounding amps, at very affordable prices . Adriano Also some people still prefer the sound of tube amps and have the patience to wait 20 minutes for them to warm up and re-bias them every month. To each his own. Right now, the best AR bang-for-the-buck appears to be the AR9 and AR9LSi...that is if you don't have to pay shipping, still have a strong back and friend to help, and a wife who won't throw you and the big 9's out of the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phxjohn Posted September 2, 2017 Report Share Posted September 2, 2017 Ebay sold prices have been much below $4,999.99 for AR 3's. I took exception to that price(listing....I doubt that the seller will get it) because the cabinets are trashed. I can understand paying a high price if you really want something. I will comment more on this overpaying scenario in about a week. I don't doubt that some people prefer AR 9's and AR9LSi, but my AR 3a's are something that I had wanted since I was a teenager. I am happy to have them now and I do not feel the need for anything 'better'. I will have to buy a pair of high efficiency speakers for when I buy a Dennis Had SE vacuum tube amplifier. I subscribe to no one methodology as being the 'best' for any component. I prefer to enjoy the differences in sound between components rather than attempt to determine which is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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