Picked up some more AR speakers

[Stimpy]

On 7/20/2018 at 8:35 AM, DavidR said:

The 9's will be ALL NPE caps except for Vishay 1837 bypass caps on the tweeter and UMR npe's

I've decided to use film in the 90's. Clarity CSA on the tweeter and UMR.

No love for the LMR?  There's a series cap on those too.  So, throw a Vishay in there as well.

I'm looking forward to your AR90-ClarityCap impressions (since I live vicariously through others).  I still need to investigate why the Clarity's didn't show-me-the-love, on my AR58S speakers?  Could the 8.0uF mylar that I also used, have sucked the life out of the upper mids?

[Stimpy]

6 hours ago, harry398 said:

Im waiting as well.

Focusing on what arsurround said, umr cap.     The 9's are truely the best i have, but the 3 way has its strong points as well.      You will love the ar9, if you have the room for it.

 

Do you own a 3a?    For comparison sake?

Off topic. 

Harry, your AR90 cabinets, on eBay, are making me crazy!  I want them, but have no way to get them!  Crap.

On topic.

The AR UMR domes are a great driver.  Well worth a little recap love, and good front end electronics.

 

 

[harry398]

38 minutes ago, Stimpy said:

Off topic. 

Harry, your AR90 cabinets, on eBay, are making me crazy!  I want them, but have no way to get them!  Crap.

On topic.

The AR UMR domes are a great driver.  Well worth a little recap love, and good front end electronics.

 

 

Dont get crazy, get mobile.

New jersey aint Far.

 

 

[harry398]

3 hours ago, DavidR said:

I'm DONE with Carver amps.

I have a Limited Edition Studio Reference amp by Emotiva; the SA250. Actually, I have two.

 

Why done with carver?

[DavidR]

1 hour ago, Stimpy said:

No love for the LMR?  There's a series caps on those too.  So, throw a Vishay in there as well.

I have a Jantzen CrossCap with a Cornell-Dublier 940C for bypass (much higher voltage rating). I've had it for a while; before the Clarity CSA's came out.

[DavidR]

1 hour ago, harry398 said:

Why done with carver?

I went thru several different carver amps, including modified ones. My wife said why are you always buying old amps, try something new. I did and never looked back.

[Mez]

I am new to this forum but not in rebuilding/repairing vintage speakers.  A few months back, I replaced the crossovers and foam on a set of 4 Large Advent Speakers and stacked them after discovering that was a popular thing to do.  While that set up does sound good, I felt they were still lacking.

A few weeks back, I found a pair of AR-9 for sale on Craigslist in Houston. All the drivers looks fine and had obviously been re-foamed.  There was damage to the veneer approximately 3 inches around the very bottom from what believe is dog urine.  One of the previous owners had removed the damaged veneer area then painted it black.  I will repair that in the not too distant future but the rest of the cabinet appeared to be undamaged, so I feel lucky in that regard.

I got them home and when I played them for the 1st time, they sounded harsh and very bright. Very disappointed.  Then I thought perhaps it was where I placed them 3 ft out in the room. I did the research and AR states they need to be placed no more than 3" from the wall.  While that helped bring the low frequencies back, I noticed there was still something missing.  The drivers all worked fine, but it seemed to lack the clarity and crisp imaging I had expected.

So I pulled the woofer on the right speaker and concluded the crossovers were untouched original.  So I ordered all new caps (except for the very large 2500uf cap for the 12" crossover) and replaced the caps on the upper range crossover on only the right speaker last night.  I played them for a limited time, and from what I could tell there was an improvement in sharpness and clarity.  I plan to replace the upper drivers caps on the left speaker tonight.

So my question is this:  What sound improvement should I notice once all the caps are replaced?  I am using the NPE type from Parts Express.

[Mez]

By the way, I am driving them with a Conrad-Johnson Sonographe SA-400 amp and SA26 preamp.  rated at 400 watts/channel at 4 ohms.  Damn good amp and pre-amp in my opinion.

[Stimpy]

36 minutes ago, Mez said:

By the way, I am driving them with a Conrad-Johnson Sonographe SA-400 amp and SA26 preamp.  rated at 400 watts/channel at 4 ohms.  Damn good amp and pre-amp in my opinion.

I have a Sonographe SG-3 turntable.  It's very good, for a modest table.  It made me lust after your SA26 and SA-400 gear.  That's a nice combo. 

Oh, congratulations on the AR9s too.  Awesome speakers.  I hope you sort them out?

As to the recap, when redoing my AR90 crossovers, I tested a recapped crossover against a stock crossover.  The differences were very pronounced.  Cleaner, clearer, smoother with better presence.  They're not finished yet, since I'm refurbing the cabinets too.  But I hope I hear increased resolution in the lower mids and bass as well.  I used Mundorf polys for the recap.

 

[Mez]

I have a B&O 3000 turntable. 

For the CD player, I am using the Sony CDP-X707ES which is a beast that I will never part with.

[DavidR]

1 hour ago, Mez said:

So my question is this:  What sound improvement should I notice once all the caps are replaced?  I am using the NPE type from Parts Express. 

Everything should improve. I would have used Mundorf ECaps on the tweeters and mid circuits and Bennic elsewhere but have been told the P.E. caps are good.

[harry398]

I use Dayton npe exclusively anymore Mez.    They offer the smoothest sound with excellent clarity and the price is very low

 

Ive tried others, in poly, and none are as good.

Erse caps ,the yellow ones were the worst.  Horrible to my ears.

 

Good luck with your ar9.   I love mine

[harry398]

22 hours ago, DavidR said:

I went thru several different carver amps, including modified ones. My wife said why are you always buying old amps, try something new. I did and never looked back.

Yea, i hear ya.

I went through a few that my brother, the Carver expert got me.     1.0, not for me, 1.5 was ok, 500 was pretty, but the 4.0 is superior.   Tfm 42 is my favorite. Big balls and smoooth sound.

I own 2 kenwood m2a amps, and they sound great,and cheap.    1 draw back ...well 2......heat and power consumption.....carver kicks its ass on that.   Tfm 42 made over 550 watts @4 ohms on my brothers test set up.   Thats a straight load, not peak ability.   The part i like.....its smooooth not forward in mids and great bass.

The kenwood makes 340@ 4ohms.   Not bad.   Great sound too.

Never tried emotiva.   Enjoy!!!!!     

[DavidR]

4 hours ago, harry398 said:

 1.0, not for me, 1.5 was ok, 500 was pretty, but the 4.0 is superior.   Tfm 42 is my favorite. Big balls and smoooth sound.

I had two M1.0t modified to 450 wpc. Hated the brittle sound of the 1.5. The 500T was modified BUT didn't like 4 ohm speakers too well and made my Bose 901_II sound muddy in the lower mids where it should shine. The 1.0t's were OK but one had a transistor let go - 70vdc to the speaker. I was going to try the TFM series but that's when my wife made her famous comment. I'm very happy with my Emotiva amps.

[harry398]

1 minute ago, DavidR said:

I had two M1.0t modified to 450 wpc. Hated the brittle sound of the 1.5. The 500T was modified BUT didn't like 4 ohm speakers too well and made my Bose 901_II sound muddy in the lower mids where it should shine. The 1.0t's were OK but one had a transistor let go - 70vdc to the speaker. I was going to try the TFM series but that's when my wife made her famous comment. I'm very happy with my Emotiva amps.

Got ya.     

[DavidR]

I have finally started the rebuild of the AR9's I picked up along with the 10Pi speakers. I had three non AR speakers that I wanted to get out of the way first. With some sage advice from Glenn (GD70) I tackled the worst cabinet first. The guy I bought them from must have used them outdoors on damp ground as they have damaged/swollen mdf (especially one). I found what appeared to be a dried up earthworm inside by the bottom xover board.

I first lifted the bottom xover board and coated the entire bottom and sides up to the woofers with z-poxy resin and then the bottom and bottom plate. Now I'm applying, bit by bit, epoxy based wood filler to damaged mdf shallow areas. Lots of work.  Glenn was right about the resin being very difficult to sand. I hate sanding.

I have clamps ready once I'm at the point to apply resin to the bottom/sides in hopes of bringing in the warp-age some.

 

[harry398]

Nice progress.     

 

You will enjoy the fruits of your labor. 

 

[JKent]

2 hours ago, DavidR said:

With some sage advice from Glenn (GD70) I tackled the worst cabinet first. The guy I bought them from must have used them outdoors on damp ground as they have damaged/swollen mdf

Glenn is the man for that! Wish I had consulted him before tackling the similarly swollen cab on one of my EMI speakers. The thing is to dig out the swollen and crumbly wood bits before filling with epoxy. I tried to just squeeze the panels together with brute force and it did not go well. Keep us posted!

[DavidR]

Yes, Glenn can work magic. I'll try my best. The damage doesn't show that much being on the bottom. The only veneer I have is from a Bose 901_II cabinet. It's too dark and the grain is slightly different so I just might fill with wood filler and sand smooth and then paint that part black. I'll be happy just getting the cabs sealed and looking decent. I'm actually looking for another pair that has plastic frames for the grille material and in much better shape.

[ar_pro]

Great photos, David - it's always nice to see a work in progress!

Are you going to retain the orientation of the grille pegs, or flip them around?

 

[DavidR]

5 minutes ago, ar_pro said:

Are you going to retain the orientation of the grille pegs, or flip them around?

Leave them be.

It will make the sanding more difficult, but ................

[ar_pro]

 I always preferred the socket portion of the peg assembly for the speaker, and the male portion for the grille panels - it seemed to have a sleeker appearance with the front grille removed.

Parts Express made - probably still makes - exact replacements that fit very well with a little glue for permanence.

I've seen them both ways in the literature, so I guess either method would be authentic. 

[Pete B]

12 hours ago, DavidR said:

Yes, Glenn can work magic. I'll try my best. The damage doesn't show that much being on the bottom. The only veneer I have is from a Bose 901_II cabinet. It's too dark and the grain is slightly different so I just might fill with wood filler and sand smooth and then paint that part black. I'll be happy just getting the cabs sealed and looking decent. I'm actually looking for another pair that has plastic frames for the grille material and in much better shape.

I have even used a 1/16" or bigger as needed drill to remove some material in the area that 

is swollen.  First set up a furniture clamp and try to compress it, then estimate how much you

need to compress it and use that size bit, clamp again and redo it until it is square.  Release 

the clamp and inject glue into the holes and clamp again overnight.

I should start on my 9s one of these day or years.

[DavidR]

Thanks for the tip Pete.

I have some pony clamps and they work well. I also use probes/picks that do a good job removing debris.

[wallacelaren]

Excellent find DavidR! I am new to site.  please direct me to the proper thread with this question if I am posting this on wrong discussion. I was given speakers, from the late 70s. Already used the miracle Howards on the walnut vaneer. are they AR tweeters? what are they. they're custom I think given the looks of the magic marker inscription!