Rat44 Posted April 12, 2021 Report Share Posted April 12, 2021 Just moved into a new home and my AR 9's wont work due to lack of proper spacing for the side firing woofers. I have loved the sound of these since I've owned them. Was thinking of moving to the 9 LSI since the sound should be similar . Are there any other speakers I might look for that would come close ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aadams Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 I have been reading your posts wondering what could be the problem because the only AR12 inch that is easier to set up than an AR9 is a 9lsi, which will be hard to come by for an even swap and parts are dearer. Have you read the AR9 manual section on room placement? Ideally you need 3ft on either side of the outside woofers but extreme asymmetrical arrangements can be accommodated. The only real constraint is placement against a short rear wall. And speaker separation can be as close as needed for a minimum listening distance of 3ft. Adams ' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rat44 Posted April 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 I am only able to have about 1 foot on the sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR surround Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 3 hours ago, Rat44 said: I am only able to have about 1 foot on the sides. How do they sound placed like that? I have about 1 ft on the side of the left speaker and 2 ft on the side of the right speaker. I have them towed in a bit and about 5 ft from the rear walls. I'm very happy with the results. I know that you are talking about placement distance to the side walls, but Julian Hirsch's review of the AR9's, states that they could not get the speakers to less than a foot or so from the back wall, but that placement had no harmful affects on the sound. I suspect that more people have made compromises regarding the placement of these speakers than those who have them set up exactly as recommended. If it bothers you that much, another solution may be to install a rather sophisticated equalizer. You can get one of these 31 band units, $220 at Amazon: https://artproaudio.com/product/eq355-dual-31-band-eq/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidR Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 can you 'kitty-corner' them some people say 'kaddy-corner' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stimpy Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 The AR90 manual showed response graphs from different room positions. While not always optimal, none of the graphs looked horrid. Before I gave up on AR9s, I'd have to try every possible spot first. Plus, nothing new, in an affordable range, is going to compete with the 9s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar_pro Posted April 13, 2021 Report Share Posted April 13, 2021 Assuming the issue is bass-related, but can you better describe the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rat44 Posted April 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2021 Lack of bass is very noticeable. Its still there but sounds kinda 'lacking' is the only way I can describe it. I have an old Pioneer SG 9800 12 band graphic equalizer. Or would that be the wrong way to go about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR surround Posted April 14, 2021 Report Share Posted April 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Rat44 said: Lack of bass is very noticeable. Its still there but sounds kinda 'lacking' is the only way I can describe it. I have an old Pioneer SG 9800 12 band graphic equalizer. Or would that be the wrong way to go about it? Can you try to place the speakers asymmetrically in your room? Or change your listening position such that it is asymmetrical to the speakers? That is AR's recommendation for when one is experiencing loss/cancellation of bass frequencies...Perhaps you are sitting in a null. Look at page 12 of the AR90 manual: http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library/acoustic_research/ar-9_series_1978-1981/ar-9_series_manuals/ar-90_manual/ar-90_manual_pg12.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rat44 Posted April 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2021 Perhaps moving them farther from the walls will help but that moves them a little closer together. I may have to adjust the furniture to accommodate a different listening position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genek Posted April 14, 2021 Report Share Posted April 14, 2021 What are your room dimensions, and are you putting the speakers against a long or short wall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar_pro Posted April 14, 2021 Report Share Posted April 14, 2021 Any chance that you could sketch a room layout with dimensions, furnishings & your listening spot? As other guys have noted, the AR-9 can be adapted to less-than-perfect circumstances, so maybe there's still a chance that you can get them to work. Also - have you double-checked your connections for polarity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rat44 Posted April 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2021 The room is 13 1/2 ft by 14 ft. Speakers are on the short wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aadams Posted April 16, 2021 Report Share Posted April 16, 2021 12 hours ago, Rat44 said: The room is 13 1/2 ft by 14 ft. Speakers are on the short wall. You have plenty of room unless something else has priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR surround Posted April 16, 2021 Report Share Posted April 16, 2021 12 hours ago, Rat44 said: The room is 13 1/2 ft by 14 ft. Speakers are on the short wall. 11 minutes ago, Aadams said: You have plenty of room unless something else has priority. I agree. I currently have mine with a 12 ft wide short wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidR Posted April 16, 2021 Report Share Posted April 16, 2021 Don't know if you can open this powerpoint but shows caddy-corner set-up LvngRm - Stereo.pptx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR surround Posted April 16, 2021 Report Share Posted April 16, 2021 1 hour ago, DavidR said: Don't know if you can open this powerpoint but shows caddy-corner set-up LvngRm - Stereo.pptx 43.67 kB · 3 downloads And if you look at these paged of the AR90 manual, they state that a catercorner placement as recommended by DavidR is an acceptable alternative. I am quoting the AR90 manual because the earlier AR9 manual does not seem to address this type of placement. (BTW, catercorner=catty corner=caddy corner = kitty corner.) http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library/acoustic_research/ar-9_series_1978-1981/ar-9_series_manuals/ar-90_manual/ar-90_manual_pg11.html http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library/acoustic_research/ar-9_series_1978-1981/ar-9_series_manuals/ar-90_manual/ar-90_manual_pg12.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry398 Posted April 16, 2021 Report Share Posted April 16, 2021 On 4/13/2021 at 8:19 PM, Rat44 said: Lack of bass is very noticeable. Its still there but sounds kinda 'lacking' is the only way I can describe it. I have an old Pioneer SG 9800 12 band graphic equalizer. Or would that be the wrong way to go about it? lack of Bass. 1 ft on either side.....thats not aweful. 1 check and make sure your polarity is correct. 2. dont be afraid to add 1 to 2 db to lower 3 slides on eq. 3 placement is important, but I find it hard to believe you have a huge lack of bass..if everything else is correct. as for the AR9LSI....the forward firing woofer and downfiring 10 are hard to beat in terms of ease of placement. The ar9LS is easy to find and less $ do number 1 and 2 first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rat44 Posted April 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2021 Thanks for the tips. Looks like I have some moving to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidR Posted April 17, 2021 Report Share Posted April 17, 2021 I think there is some wording in the AR9 manual. I'll take a look and get back to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtophr Posted November 19, 2021 Report Share Posted November 19, 2021 I know this is an older thread, but I’m curious if a final solution was reached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dna Posted December 18, 2021 Report Share Posted December 18, 2021 On 4/16/2021 at 8:23 AM, AR surround said: And if you look at these paged of the AR90 manual, they state that a catercorner placement as recommended by DavidR is an acceptable alternative. I am quoting the AR90 manual because the earlier AR9 manual does not seem to address this type of placement. (BTW, catercorner=catty corner=caddy corner = kitty corner.) http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library/acoustic_research/ar-9_series_1978-1981/ar-9_series_manuals/ar-90_manual/ar-90_manual_pg11.html http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library/acoustic_research/ar-9_series_1978-1981/ar-9_series_manuals/ar-90_manual/ar-90_manual_pg12.html Or we could say "diagonally spaced"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry398 Posted April 16, 2022 Report Share Posted April 16, 2022 So....did you figure out the problem??? AR9s make plenty of lows...but it very important to position them in the room properly. They also benefit from a touch of eq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjmsam Posted April 16, 2022 Report Share Posted April 16, 2022 On 4/13/2021 at 8:19 PM, Rat44 said: Lack of bass is very noticeable. Its still there but sounds kinda 'lacking' is the only way I can describe it. I have an old Pioneer SG 9800 12 band graphic equalizer. Or would that be the wrong way to go about it? Sometimes a room will not work well regardless of speaker or placement. For the MLP, equalization (preferably more granular than 12 bands, such as a PEQ or Audyssey, Dirac, MiniDSP, etc.) may help attenuate peaks but cannot eliminate nulls as those frequencies cancel regardless of amplitude. Using something like REW to simulate and measure the room would be most revealing (I am happy to help if you live nearby - can't tell from your profile). Guessing is expensive; I certainly would not divest from the AR9 before confirming that an alternative sounds better! On 4/14/2021 at 2:05 AM, ar_pro said: Any chance that you could sketch a room layout with dimensions, furnishings & your listening spot? On 4/15/2021 at 8:09 PM, Rat44 said: The room is 13 1/2 ft by 14 ft. Speakers are on the short wall. Other important aspects include height, construction, and any acoustic treatment to relieve bass pressure, which can be overwhelming. Example: In my home theater (much larger than your room and treated, though far from perfect), my AR9 sound a bit better than my AR90. In my game room (slightly larger than your room with little treatment), my AR90 sound a bit better than my AR9. In my living room (about the size of my home theater with no treatment) where WAF is more important, my AR-3a sound better in some parts of the room than in others. Anecdote: I drove to Long Island to buy my AR9 from the original owner about 15 years ago. I auditioned them in the untreated living room of his tiny cape-style house and was disappointed by the lack of bass. They had been recapped, all four woofers had significant extension, and he had "audiophile equipment" (fancy turntable, glowing tube amp, "articulate" (i.e.- overly bright) replacement speakers, etc.), so I figured the room was highly modal. Upon returning home, I placed them against the wall, connected them to my GFA-585, and was rewarded with terrific sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thezone999 Posted October 30, 2023 Report Share Posted October 30, 2023 I have had my AR9's for 43 years. I have had them in a variety of configurations in apartments, Mobile homes and houses. 4-12" subs and you don't have enough bass? That is just not possible. The bass rattles the window in all cases. If you have a lack of bass it's most likely you don't have enough power to drive them. That is assuming you have them connected properly. These things are very power hungry. If you don't have at least 250 RMS Watts per channel you are wasting your time. I run a Hafler 500 with mine. And into 4 ohms (which the AR9's are) it pushes 400WPC RMS. And yes there is plenty of bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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