Aadams

Are they still stacked? Have you tried other configurations?

IMO that 6.5 is perfect with your subwoofer.

I was sitting at the keyboard when you posted this. Have been wondering if you had done this before and rejected it. Did you acquire additional Infinity boxes for this or reconfigure some satellite speakers. Are they 6" or 5" mids?

PM sent.

Your tweeter with the missing dome can be rebuilt. A HiVi pair is a well established alternative with differences that many listeners will neither notice nor care about. The "purist" preference for tweeters is rebuilt and there is a difference especially if you are a critical listener of music recorded in live venues or large spaces. Use this search , AS 103 Lakecat site:classicspeakerpages.net Lakecat is here frequently and has multiple restored pairs of 103s. Download the AR3 3a restoration if you haven't already done so. Adams

Giorgio If all you want to do is blend this pair of speakers you can remove the 2 series jumper, choose a capacitor for the 1ms and use a graphic equalizer to reduce the output in around the 1kz range and get very close to what you want. IMO. Adams

Sounds like your file sizes are way too large. Save your images as a smaller size or use the windows snipping tool to make a large copy of the area you want to focus on and then cut and paste. You can also do a screen capture if using Apple. Proven tweeter choices are rebuilt from a couple of sources or HiVi. There are no un-refurbished original 3a tweeters that operate correctly no matter what the seller tells you. You should post pictures and no doubt you will get help. Adams

In the 48B and58B the woofer crossed over @ 400hz. The AR5 crosses at just over 600hz and has a jumper like your 2. You are updating the 2 to the performance of a a 48B if you crossover in that range.

moved

Giorgio The AR1W has a capacitor that limits the woofer to around 600hz and below. I believe an AR5 schematic may have the info you need. Just a guess.

I like this. Is the AR1ms the mid and tweeter for a 58b and 48b?

The AR5a is no more. The AR58s subwoofer has been replaced by an unjumpered AR3a making the new system an AR-51W. In the subwoofer role, there was no perceivable qualitative difference so the combos were chosen based on wood grain. The 58s is now mated to another 3a to become an AR-358, to be operational after a tweeter rebuild. This one will be used to compare the sound to an AR9. This is NOT about winners and losers but differences.

And also "What Roy Allison is referring to is the boundary dip that is caused by a reflected, out-of-phase low-frequency wave from the woofer cone that bounces off the floor or wall and returns and partially cancels the front wave, causing a dip in the response at certain frequencies in the upper bass. By placing the woofer(s) close to the floor-wall boundary, and crossing over below that frequency, the dip can be avoided. The AR9 was also designed with this in mind, of course, with the two woofers close to the floor on each side (instead of in front up high). This has come to be called the "Allison Effect." There is still debate on the efficacy of trying to remove the dip (do recording studios compensate in recordings for a dip they may or may not get from their studio monitors?), as it may cause some "softness" in certain frequencies, but in general that dip is there and can be avoided. It is possible that you are losing some intelligibility around the frequency of the boundary dip. If you re-mount your AR-3a speakers flush with a wall or bookcase, you can avoid this problem. " The question of clarity was not the main topic of this thread but I have been bothered ever since about having been obstinate and even worse ? potentially incorrect in my perceptions. I publicly acknowledge tysontom is exactly correct. The clarity issue regarding the 3a is resolved, at least in my house. Aadams

Yes, but yours aren't ugly.

This is a good idea. I have been trying to imagine a DIY way to make minimalist housings for individual drivers.

This is a comparison of a refurbished AR3a vs AR5. It is a mod and tweak topic because both speaker systems are bi-amped with a common bass system provided by an AR58 crossed over at 200hz. Except for impedance both systems have identical dome mids and are crossed over from mid to woofer at around 500hz for the 3a and 600hz for the AR5. The AR5 has original Compulytics while the AR3a has all new NPEs in place of the original ICC wax caps. Both speaker models have rebuilt Chris tweeters. All speakers still have potentiometers, For this comparison: Tweeter and mid controls were set very close to identical. Electronics and sources were identical Both systems were sitting adjacent at a listening distance that varied between 5 and 7 feet and volume matched within 2 seconds after the switch. There were two listeners. You ask, “What is he up to now?” Answer: To find out if an AR3a can be made to mimic the sound of an AR5 on human voices. Result: Short version: An AR3a can sound virtually identical to an AR5 in rendering human voice, which is contrary to many opinions expressed over many years on the CSP. You can Google it. Long version: I was among those who thought the 3a was weak at presenting human voice. My impressions were gained through direct comparisons between my totally original 3as and AR9s when playing pop/rock vocals that are difficult to understand. (Examples below). Additionally, the 3a seemed to always have a “dark” quality that made voices of Gordon Lightfoot, for example, and Allison Kraus a bit husky and veiled. The only person on the CSP, to my knowledge, who insisted the 3a was as good as the AR5 at voice was Tom Tyson @tysontom but even he specified the special conditions where he knew this was true or otherwise there could be problems from reflections or interference. Edit: I finally found the quote: What I have discovered at my house is the AR3a is easily the match of an AR5 in vocal rendition if you do these things 1.Remove bass peaks below 200hz. Not easy to do with a 3a unless you mount it flush in a wall or book case. The last octave of bass must be flat or rolled off as perceived at the listening position. This is not a problem with the 5 because it does not naturally yield much of the last octave unless forced. If you place either speaker in a position to emphasize the lowest frequencies using room gain you will likely make compromises that interfere with the perception of voice, but the effect can be much worse with a 12 inch woofer. My solution was to make both systems use the same bass sub-system which I have already optimized for this listening area. The 3a woofer as a LMR is rolled off 24db octave below 200hz. 2. Tweeters aren’t required to render a clear voice but once the bass is worked out voices will sound dull without tweeters that work well. For either of these systems that means rebuilt or HiVi. Even if they pass the paper roll tube test, I promise you, your UNrefurbished, 50 year old, ¾” AR domes are defective. 3. Asking a speaker to render Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, Sarah Vaughn etc. is not a challenge. The mixes were set up to make the voice the prominent feature. A real challenge is to play some of the following and understand the vocals. - Elton John “Goodbye Yellow Brick Road” - Elton John “Saturday Night is Alright for Fighting” - The Who “Won’t Get Fooled Again” - Dave Matthews - “What Would You Say” - Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band “Born to Run” - Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band “Rosalita” - Gordon Lightfoot “The Summer Side of Life” -Van Morrison – “Astral Weeks” -Cowboy Junkies- "New Dawn Coming" All these songs have lyrics that are clearly understandable on well sorted systems. You don’t have to like the music but if you can’t hear the words in these songs on your speakers you are missing a lot of musical detail in the recordings you do like. In my comparison the 3a easily matched the AR5 in both timbre and clarity of vocals. By-products of doing this comparison: Imaging Bass interferes with imaging. Remove the bass as a problem and imaging blooms. The 3a and the 5 were conceived in the days before imaging was a feature but don’t believe it if someone tells you they can’t image. Adams

Those mids look fine. Just my two cents but, if they are working and there are no perceivable leaks I wouldn't mess with them. Leave well enough alone. Finding working mids is more difficult than tweeters. Adams

DON'T drill into the wood. You can drill out or make slots at the edge of the HIVi plate to use the original screws or use three of he HIVI plate holes offset and equidistant between the original holes and secure with small wood screws. Study the pictures on the previous page where both methods are used. You may need some caulk sealant. Don't bugger up the original mounting holes and don't subtract any wood because you may need all of it later.

I have been waiting for news on your project. The bass should be identical when placed at the same spot within the room. If the 5 sounds better then the 2ax may have a problem. The midrange is as good as anything AR ever made and should be close to unbearably bright at critical listening distances when set to full increase. Adams

Ligs Thanks, It is a journey with no definitive answer. Adams

I couldn’t leave well enough alone. As I listened to this new speaker arrangement I kept running across occasional rock and pop vocal recordings that had an annoying peak in the sub 125hz range. I had been all over the gain controls and was convinced this was purely a question of positioning within this room. I finally moved one woofer about 2ft along the wall and reversed it to face the opposite corner which reduced the low bass peak but it sounded too lean. In desperation I decided to return to flat settings on the equalizers and recalibrate everything by pulling out the headphones and refreshing my memory of how this music sounds with zero room reflections. In the process I relearned what flat bass sounds like and this; that most of the pop and rock vocal music that I listen to does not have very deep or prominent bass. When set properly the bass almost never blurs the vocals nor is it so loud that the vocals are overwhelmed. In the end, all I needed was even milder equalizer adjustments to get very close to the headphone sound. I know this is subjective. If you like bass slam, listen to power chords and shredding guitars then you won’t be interested in what follows but, if you really want to hear all the words that are being sung, especially in classic rock and pop, then put on your headphones to adjust your system and get an easy improvement in both imaging and clarity. You need merely decent headphones and these songs. The original “Astral Weeks” by Van Morrison. This is almost all acoustic with subtle textures easily obscured by mid bass peaks. Morrison's vocals can be very difficult to understand on speakers but are completely intelligible on headphones. Original “Won’t get fooled again” by The Who. You can hear every word on headphones. The bass line is surprisingly not prominent on headphones but, through 12” ARs, it is easy to have heavy mid bass that blurs the vocals “Paradise by the dashboard lights”. Every lyric word as well as the baseball base stealing metaphor can be heard clearly through headphones. It is easy for the mid bass to obscure the male vocals in this one and blur the female voice. Other tough ones are "Born to Run" with the E Street Band and "What would you say" by The Dave Matthews Band. The change was so stark on some very familiar songs that I wasn’t sure I still had the low bass that I want when it exists in the recording. To reassure myself, I played some classical recordings that I know have low bass and all is well. If you can get your system to play these songs clearly then everything else will sound good. Your perception of bass may change.

This post is about the AR1w but first I want to say something about the AR9. The only AR9 I have ever heard is the original vertical. The feature that always strikes me when listening is the bass output, but I don’t mean the depth or prominence. If the speakers are installed within the very liberal guidelines suggested by AR you are rewarded with automatic, practically flat bass to 200hz. The beauty of flat bass is, voices seem to float above the low frequencies with zero coloration introduced by bass peaks. I mention this because I now realize that any AR12 inch that employs a single front facing woofer is subject to coloration in the voice band because the woofer performance is almost always compromised in order to keep all the upper band drivers facing the listener. This may not be true in a lab but given the usual limitations of home listening spaces it is a general fact. In the case of the AR3a the best position to achieve optimal and practically flat bass performance is to mount them flush in a wall or book case. I can’t do this at my house. Thankfully, Roy Allison left a body of research that points to other ways of achieving practically flat bass response by using modern electronics and the AR1w. I was recently reminded by one of our forum experts that inside every AR3a is an AR1w. I purchased a long idle pair, restored them to life, disconnected the jumper and began testing them as alternatives to the AR58s as a passive subwoofer. I have included images, below, of the left and right channels. Using the 58s as stands places the 3a woofers 45” above the floor, almost equidistant between ceiling and floor. I originally had them installed with baffles against the wall, but the room gain caused an annoying peak in the 50hz range when playing some pop music with three note bass lines. The solution was what you see in photos and is a solution which I rejected when using the 58s woofers in the same position directly one foot lower on the wall. Room boundaries cause crazy phenomena with bass. The 3as have been turned to correspond with the fig 7 below of the Roy Allison paper. What I am experiencing now is almost like the voices floating over the bass that I hear with the AR9. What I thought were clear vocals before are even clearer now. The long term plan is for either the 58s for 3as to move to another room but while they are here I will have the tweeters rebuilt in these 3as, then biamp them alongside the AR5s with the 58s as bass units. The intent is to determine if the voice performance of the 3a can be made to mimic the AR5 by splitting the high woofer octaves from the low octaves.

Crumpets There is still more info on the HiVi mod. You might want to copy this search text hivi tweeter inductor site: classicspeakerpages.net and paste it into google. You'll get all the CSP threads that discuss the topic. Adams

Here is another thread from 2016 with images, diagrams and discussion. It looks like the series 6uf cap is advised for the AR5.

Look at the thread, there are photos of how it should be wired. This example has opposite polarity........ the yellow and black are crossed. There are other examples. I don't know if the series cap is required but the coil is necessary. Will try to find more images.