Aadams

I'll try this. The soldering will be done by someone else but I can handle the 2x4 part. I shouldn't be surprised. There's always a 2x4 and duct tape lurking in the background.

Thanks. I have read about some adventures doing what you describe. Desoldering the binding posts attachment in situ is apparently a real pain and requires technique . If I were more experienced with more than basic tools perhaps I would try pulling the pc board but the odds are heavily in favor of my shipping the boards for repair, so I am looking for the best way get the masonite board out whole and reusable if possible. Adams

There are no threads that I can find on removal of this style crossover seen below. These are images of an AR98ls crossover. It looks to me like installing the Lsi components on this board will require the removal of the entire masonite panel. Does anyone here have suggestions for a "best practice" or perhaps "techniques to avoid" in removing the masonite panel and PC board without damage? The picture of the board on the right is an example exactly like the ones in my cabinets. Adams

So how did this go. What systems were there? Adams

Have you read this thread? This is part of Carl's great legacy to us. About halfway down the first page is his opinion on old Sprague Compulytics. It seems odd to me that all of your Compulytics of same value measure out out of tolerance by same amount, in light of Carl's recommendation and experience with these specific old caps. I would not have touched them but truthfully I think at this point you could go new or old NPE and never hear the difference. It is not worth the effort to experiment as there will be no big payoff either way unless one of the Spragues is truly off. You might replace the tweeter caps with new as a compromise. For Pot replacements look at this thread at the bottom of the first page.

Good point can't believe I forgot that. Here is an image from the interior of an AR5 like yours

I was a pot holdout for years for the sake of originality. My recommendation would be to replace all of the pots with Lpads. The LPads are trouble free and give finer control. The current thinking is the resistor should be on the mid range LPad but only on the tweeter LPad if the tweeter has been rebuilt. There are some good looking and well reviewed after market pots available that some members here have used. This relates to the above question and is why the current advice is to NOT use a resistor if your tweeter has NOT been rebuilt. Your tweeter may look perfect and operate but the chance is 99% that it is no where close to original performance. Not using the resistor allows the moribund tweeter output to be boosted somewhat. If it breaks you get it repaired and then put resistors on the circuit. I have my tweeter lpads with resistors turned up full (bypassed) on all my rebuilt tweeters. It won't kill them. You can do more harm with a tone control IMO. This is a ticking bomb. MY two cents: I replace original with original which means I use NPE s in these old speakers. And it is not about the money. I want to remain original. Wait for responses from others. I can be eccentric. Adams

If everything is working properly the AR3 and AR5 should sound similar but the better sound will be a subjective choice. On many recordings the AR5 will have an edge in low mid range clarity. I agree with DavidR. Recent discussions on AR3 restorations have included the need for tweeter and mid range refurbishment. If your AR5 has an original tweeter it too needs rebuilding to perform correctly, assuming it has not already been done or you could install the HiVi mod. Aadams

Does anyone here have a pair of 98LS crossovers or a pair of AR98LSi crossovers for sale? If 98LS boards, I prefer the masonite version but the PC board version might be acceptable. Adams

This Roy Allison paper was passed to me when I had a similar question. A 3a woofer was used to produce the data. In your situation fig 2 curves A and B tell you a lot. http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library/allison/other/technical_articles_by_roy_f/technical_articles_by_roy_f_18.html#previous-photo

They look genuine and ready play from what you show. If you want more info you will need more photos. Adams

Speaker Works in Eugene Oregon has a good reputation and a comparatively substantial web presence.

This is the most recent comprehensive discussion of the 3a 3/4" tweeter topic. Page 2

Very nice examples. Just beautiful.

Metal Toggle Switch for Shelf/ Floor.

You are fortunate. My 98s have the caps mounted on a PC board and facing the back side. Nothing can be seen of the caps. Only the backside of the green board is visible along with what appears to be hot melt glue over flow. The board is somehow soldered to the binding post screws and I cannot see how to extract it, in pieces or in total, without risking damage to, or destruction of, some difficult to repair items. Good work. I will continue watching. Adams

Nice images. Will you be removing the crossover? If so please take photos of how it is done. Aadams

After many hours of listening and some careful adjustment of the mid- range lpads, the 3a top of the AR31w configuration absolutely equals the AR9 in ambience, clarity and timbre. They are also equal in imaging if the 3a is angled inward and the listening position is close enough so directly radiated sound predominates. In my system the limit for imaging on the 3a is about 4ft before the image dissolves and the reflected sound from ceiling, floors and walls begins to take over. The 3a, all the domed AR classics, require a lot fiddling to get the right balance for imaging but the reward is smooth, expansive sound that doesn’t make your hearing constantly search for the center of the image. Very easy to listen to. Only the AR domed classics (maybe the ADDs) and the LSi models will produce this far field effect in a such short listening distance. The AR9 holds its image to at least 10 feet after which both speaker systems sound identical. The listening room is 13 x 29 with each pair of speakers set 5 feet apart along the short wall. Speakers are positioned, 9/31 9/31 so the woofer pairs are not equidistant from corner intersections. This asymmetrical arrangement, mentioned on the back label of every AR3a and in the AR9 manual, helps smooth the bass of both the 9 and 1w woofer so they are perceptibly identical on almost all recordings. It seems like a waste of a 3a to stack it as a woofer but the advantage of using identical speakers in this arrangement is the convenience of identical sensitivity when using identical amplifiers; there is zero effort in setting the correct gain to account for different speaker sensitivity. Conclusion: While stacking 3as, 58s, etc in this way yields excellent results I can’t say it is an inexpensive alternative to creating an AR9 equivalent. It depends on your starting point and appetite for an AR9 level of sound. IMO, at minimum, you should use identical amps and you will need a crossover capability and this assumes you have 2 pairs of 12 inch ARs. Having no more combinations to examine I will end with a cursory ranking of the AR speakers tested in this configuration against the AR9. The AR9 - reigns supreme because, given enough space, it will do everything any of the other systems will do, out of the box ,with little effort by the user. The 581w - It sounds like an AR9 and in the far field sounds like a 3a with zero effort except minor equalization The 31w – Can image like an AR9 if used as a near field monitor and creates an exquisite direct/reflected sound at the point where the image dissolves. The big qualifier is, none of this is true without a lot of setup effort and speaker system tune up. But the payoff is great and that is why mine are now installed permanently next to the AR9s. Nihil Ultra Adams

Hello Roy Consider me corrected. I thought the rings were called skivers because the early ones look like skived leather . Adams

I can't recall Parts Express ever being cited in these forums as the source for the correct surrounds for AR12". If you remove the skiver you are creating more problems for yourself. If your woofer has a usable skiver use it and don't try to make one. You can't purchase replacement skivers. If it doesn't have a skiver check the model number because the latest generation woofers didn't use a skiver. If originality is important or you plan to resell you should keep and refurbish those machine screws or purchase new ones. Flat heads are flat wrong especially if your are thinking about wood screws. There were at least 2 generations of 10Pi. I think the later ones may have had acoustic foam on the tweeter. My advice for these would be if the tweeters and mids are working don't mess with them. If you want the best advice here you will be asked to send images after you extract the woofers. Adams

There are others here with more expertise but being summer the CSP is less active so I will pitch in for now. Tweeters and mids appear identical and are probably original. Cabinets are nice. The woofers are different models. The woofer below is the later one but I cannot see if it has a skiver ring (looks like leather) or not. You will need to remove them to find out which model. If those are original grill covers they couldn't have spent much time in the sun because they are not rotten. The surround replacement job on the woofers is not quality work. Specifically, they are incorrect surrounds and have been spliced which, aside from looking sloppy, is just wrong considering the correct surrounds are easily acquired. If they were not shimmed when they were spliced and refoamed they could also be misaligned. You might ask for specific advice on the best way to apply a new surround to correct a recently cured surround because it is not easy to remove that glue without damaging the cone edge. Download the AR3 restoration guide. The appendix has pictures, dates and identifiers for all of the AR drivers used in this model. Aadams

If you were near me I would gladly take them off your hands and use as passive sub woofers. A suggestion, If you are willing to sell and ship as parts, the refoamed woofers alone can be sold with little effort for around $100 a piece if you supply photos to verify condition.

Ligs Yes, it works. As you know, the phenomenon has been known for decades and some expensive full range speakers such the AR9 take advantage of it. It can also be done with powered sub woofers and satellites. What I have found is an 8 ½ or 9 octave three way such as the 12" AR three ways do not achieve equal clarity over the same range as a similar quality system with a low bass crossover in which the woofer carries very little of the human voice. As a standalone system to compete with modern home speakers, which are mostly 7 to 8 octave two ways, I would say a properly functioning AR5, 12, or 92 set out away from boundaries, 30” off the floor, would be easily comparable and cause much less of a fuss than the 3 way 12”. If the last octave of bass is requirement then of course the AR 12” is a bargain but you sacrifice accuracy in most situations because 12” ARs are almost always placed to achieve bass, subject to WAF constraints, at the expense of other desirable qualities, at least IMO, because that is what I always tried to do. Everything about bass smoothness and the need to decouple the woofer performance from the rest of the speaker system is mentioned directly and indirectly in Allison’s paper on room boundary effects.

Ligs You asking this question has led to a big shake up in my speaker world. The quick answer is I no longer prefer the 5 to the 58s but for a reason that was unexpected. Once I realized how similar the 58s and 9 could sound, I decided to make the 58s a permanent top and take it out of woofer service. When it came to readjusting the attenuators on the classic models, the lpads and pots on the 3as were able to meet the increased output levels required to fit into the new setup but the AR5 pots are too weak and unreliable near the upper limit so I took them out of service until I get time to install Lpads and resistors. The 3as are now stacked as an AR31w configuration permanently next to the 9s and the 58s is the top for the woofers in the 98 cabinets. If you hadn’t challenged me the potential of the 58s would not have been revealed. and this improvement would not have happened. Thanks

Agree. Being in NZ the likely tweeter scenarios will not include a resistor on the Lpad. Adams