Anybody ever run 3's and 3a's simultaneously?

[samberger0357]

Being the proud owner of a set of 3's and 3a's, and a McIntosh 4100 receiver which evidently(according to it's manual, and a couple of owners who have done just that without any issues) allows for the running of up to 3 pairs of 4 ohm speakers I'm wondering if I should give it a try. Has anyone here done that, and if so how have the results been?

[owlsplace]

I don't have any problems doing that with the Adcom 555II ... more speakers, more sound, more room interaction, etc.

Try it

One caveat: my speakers are fused.

Roger

[samberger0357]

My speakers arent but the 4100 has protection, and again the manul says its ok.

Do you stack them or are they side to side? And you're running both 3 and 3a?

[Sonnar]

Does 4100 have output transformers? If so, no problems ( maybe ). If it doesn' t have, it' s very dangerous for amp health . AR 3 and 3a are 2.7 ohms in the rich midbass region . In parallel , it's an apocalyptic 1.35 ohm .             Adriano

[samberger0357]

I don't believe the 4100 has output transformers, yet they are specific in their manual that you can run up to 3 pairs of speakers simultaneously through it. It, along with some other Mac receivers, was designed to drive as little as 2 ohm. On another forum, there's a few folks who have run 2 and 3 pairs of speakers through the 4100 without any issue at all. I just have started the experiment and I'm hardly pushing 10 watts output according to the LED power meter and it's plenty loud. The 4100 does utilize Power Guard and other circuits which disconnect the speakers if there's DC on the output. I feel fairly secure that there shouldn't be a problem with the amp.

[DavidDru]

Only in the form of the AR9! (see what I did there - 4 woofers = 4 3's)

[owlsplace]

3 hours ago, samberger0357 said:

I don't believe the 4100 has output transformers, yet they are specific in their manual that you can run up to 3 pairs of speakers simultaneously through it. It, along with some other Mac receivers, was designed to drive as little as 2 ohm. On another forum, there's a few folks who have run 2 and 3 pairs of speakers through the 4100 without any issue at all. I just have started the experiment and I'm hardly pushing 10 watts output according to the LED power meter and it's plenty loud. The 4100 does utilize Power Guard and other circuits which disconnect the speakers if there's DC on the output. I feel fairly secure that there shouldn't be a problem with the amp.

I think you may have to position them on their sides with the woofer towards the outside judging from ar_pros previous post to get the most out of this combination.

Roger

[samberger0357]

12 minutes ago, owlsplace said:

I think you may have to position them on their sides with the woofer towards the outside judging from ar_pros previous post to get the most out of this combination.

Roger

I think I got it right. Certainly looks better. At some point might experiment adding a second amp with pre,  but sounds quite good going through the 4100. 

[ar_pro]

Very impressive! That photo brings back memories, Sam.

I think the sound of the stacked AR-3a's was special; in retrospect, my move to the AR-9 was probably biased in favor of "something new", and not so much due to any shortcoming of the stacked 3a's.

If you're going to keep your system like this, you might want to consider a pair of dedicated metal stands - those vintage wooden AR stands are making me nervous.

[samberger0357]

Thank you sir! They sound awesome. Been playing the Miles Davis Newport collection and man does it sound like I'm sitting in the middle of Festival Field again(wnt to several NJF's growing up on the East Coast way back when) all over again. 

I looked on the bay for those stands after reading your post, but nothing. I'll keep my eyes open, but these replica wooden stands are pretty sturdy and don't seem to be having any issues with the 100 pounds plus of these speakers. 

I'm so happy have been able to find a solution in using both of these incredible speakers. I hate having a pair of them collecting dust while I'm using the second pair, and rotating them in and out frankly is a bit too  much weight lifting for me at this juncture in my life. 

[briodo]

2 hours ago, samberger0357 said:

I think I got it right. Certainly looks better. At some point might experiment adding a second amp with pre,  but sounds quite good going through the 4100. 

What a wonderful picture.  There is something about the walnut finish and lovely linen fabric that I find builds anticipation for the sound.  

AR9's have a unique and endearing sound, but the classics bring me back to how early hifi shaped the music we listen to today.

AR3's at a family friends house in the early 70's opened a whole new world for me.

Thanks for sharing 

[samberger0357]

I agree about how beautiful these speakers are.  

It's so funny how fate works sometimes. I would've never bought the 3a's if I wasn't going through some frustrating times with the 3's repair wise. But a good deal appeared locally, I met a good guy in the process, and then 3 days after getting the 3a's, the 3's are finally repaired correctly and sounding fantastic. And a nice Mac that was made to utilize this type of arrangement. 

Funny how the world works sometimes. 

 

Here's another picture after moving them back closer to the wall and a bit further apart.  Elvis is digging the arrangement. 

 

 

[samberger0357]

 Would be better to do a stack of 3a's, and a stack of 3's, or keep them mixed up like this. My gut tells me to leave them mixed, as both speakers provide slightly different presentations, bass response, etc. 

Thoughts/opinions welcome. 

[lARrybody]

What a wonderful setup. I am currently restoring my second set of AR3a's. They will be stacked horizontally like yours. I am trying to think of appropriate stands that will bring them closer to my listening level. I have two Adcom GFA 555II power amps, but plan on using one pre amp. I guess I should get some two way splitters (Y cable)  for the outputs.  I think that is the way it should be done.

[ar_pro]

When I had my stacked 3a's, I used two pairs of the steel stands that had been designed to hold the AR-11 placed side-by-side.

These are hard to come by, and you'd need four of them.

I've recommended custom stands from A&M Fabrication before; their work is even better than the original AR stands, and they will build to your specification:

http://www.aandmcustomsteelspeakerstands.com/#

[samberger0357]

So you didn't put speakers on top of each other? Interesting. I don't think I could accommodate a pair of speakers going horizontally side by side. Don't have the space. 

I like the look of the wooden AR stands and they seem fine. I can't detect any stress. They're built very sturdy, and since they're from vintage-ar they're new, not 50 years old. The top speaker ends up being about 3 feet up,  pretty much ear level, give or take.  For my situation it works. 

[owlsplace]

Not that I need to jump in here but the impression I got was the same as your last photo only using two stands under each stack.

[samberger0357]

1 minute ago, owlsplace said:

Not that I need to jump in here but the impression I got was the same as your last photo only using two stands under each stack.

I'm sorry I'm not clear what you mean. I am using a stand for each stack. My take on what ar_pro was suggesting was to use a stand for each speaker, and then line them up horizontally. I could be off base here and if so would appreciate clarification. 

[owlsplace]

1 minute ago, samberger0357 said:

I'm sorry I'm not clear what you mean. I am using a stand for each stack. My take on what ar_pro was suggesting was to use a stand for each speaker, and then line them up horizontally. I could be off base here and if so would appreciate clarification. 

Probably should have just let ar_pro reply but I think he had them stacked the way you do in your photo except he used two metal stands under each stack so the stands were side-by-side and the speakers were laying on their sides in a vertical stack.

[samberger0357]

9 minutes ago, owlsplace said:

Probably should have just let ar_pro reply but I think he had them stacked the way you do in your photo except he used two metal stands under each stack so the stands were side-by-side and the speakers were laying on their sides in a vertical stack.

Ah got it! That makes sense. Duh! Thanks for clarifying. 

 

I'll have to look into it. 

[ar_pro]

Roger nailed it - my speakers were stacked just like yours, and each stack was supported by a side-by-side pair of the AR steel stands.

If I was running the same set-up now, I'd just have a single large stand built for the purpose; there weren't as many options back in ancient times.

 

 

[samberger0357]

21 minutes ago, ar_pro said:

Roger nailed it - my speakers were stacked just like yours, and each stack was supported by a side-by-side pair of the AR steel stands.

If I was running the same set-up now, I'd just have a single large stand built for the purpose; there weren't as many options back in ancient times.

 

 

Thanks. I've sent an email to A&M and we'll see what they say. 

[DavidDru]

12 hours ago, larrybody said:

What a wonderful setup. I am currently restoring my second set of AR3a's. They will be stacked horizontally like yours. I am trying to think of appropriate stands that will bring them closer to my listening level. I have two Adcom GFA 555II power amps, but plan on using one pre amp. I guess I should get some two way splitters (Y cable)  for the outputs.  I think that is the way it should be done.

If your pre has 2 outputs, you are set.  Otherwise yes, use a splitter.

[lARrybody]

I have two pre-amps currently, both Adcom's.  One is a GFP-555 which has a set of outputs labeled LAB and a set labeled NORMAL.  The LAB outputs are direct coupled and the NORMAL outputs are capacitance coupled.   The other is a GFP 555II which also has outputs labeled BYPASS and MAIN which are basically the same as the LAB and NORMAL on the GFP-555.  Both my amps will accept the higher bandwidth that the LAB and BYPASS outputs offer.  This gives me a chance to experiment around with different connections.  Eventually I will find something more upscale, but this is a start into separates for me. 

I need to get cracking on these 3a's. New grills are complete. Woofers are re-foamed.  Crossovers next and then sanding and refinishing the cabs. I have stacked both KLH and AR 5's, New Large Advents, 2ax's and a few others. Stacked 3a's has been on my bucket list for a while now. Need to get er done.

[DavidDru]

Yes, I did similarly with the Adcom GFP-565 I had (until sold to JKent). ALong with 2 GFA5500 amps.  Worked great in a biamp set-up for sure.  it's handy having a preamp with at least 2 outputs.