fury161 Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 Greeting, all. I've been pouring over your pages and I'm stunned by the knowledge amassed in one place. The reason I am here is that I recently came into a pair of 70's AR-17's for a very nice price. After some inspection, I found that the woofers had at some point been removed and replaced with a pair of Radio Shack aftermarkets. (This was apparently somewhat common practice. ) These things are beauties and I'd really like to bring them back to their original glory with original parts. The problem is, the 17's seem to be a bit of a sleeper model, and finding info about the woofer part number is often conflicting - at best. I've refinished the boxes and the replacement caps should be here soon, it's just ... those damn woofers. Here's what I've figured out: The ideal replacement would be the 200001. 200037 would also be acceptable. But what about 210037 or 200027? There are a few of those at a decent price on the ebay but ... I'd really like these to be as close as possible to original and can wait for a bit for the right part to turn up. I've spent hours reading up on these and I'm still a bit flummoxed. Any ideas or advice, please? These are the lovely, ladies, if anyone is interested... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 Welcome fury! Those 17s do seem to be a bit of a sleeper. I had never heard of them, but they ARE beauties! Apparently an updated 4x (?) Those 210037s would be tempting but let's wait for a member with more knowledge aof the 8" AR woofers to chime in.I imagine you found info on the ADD series in our library, here: http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library/acoustic_research/add_series_1975-1978/ Be sure to post pictures of your work. Pictures about 100KB work well. -Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fury161 Posted January 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 From what I've picked up, the 17's are very similar to the 18's but with a bigger box and a bit better bass response. Allegedly, the drivers are the same between the two. But, many other posts on here imply that the model numbers differ between era's on what are essentially the same driver. I so confused! ha ha A few more (smaller) pictures of the cabinet refinish and tweeter: Halfway Looking Pretty Tweeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankmarsi Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 Get these, ready to use? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Acoustic-Research-AR17-Speakers-Pair/323575013128?hash=item4b5692df08:g:go0AAOSwZKJcAFd8:rk:7:pf:0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fury161 Posted January 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 1 minute ago, frankmarsi said: Get these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Acoustic-Research-AR17-Speakers-Pair/323575013128?hash=item4b5692df08:g:go0AAOSwZKJcAFd8:rk:7:pf:0 See, that's interesting because the design of those are different from mine. While it's tempting to buy those and keep the woofers, I'm not wired that way (pun intended). If I did that, I'd then have another set of speakers to restore and they're already starting to pile up around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, frankmarsi said: Get these: What the heck ARE those? They have UGLY cabinets that do not look like fury's beauties. The tweets look right. No "AR" anywhere on the cabinets except the one grille badge. IF they have original woofers and IF the refoam was done right..... maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 OK, fury's post appeared while I was typing. Here's a thought: ask the seller if he would be willing to remove a woofer to check the part number, then (if it's right) send you just the woofers & tweeters, for a lower shipping cost. Then you'd have a spare set of tweets to either keep for an emergency or re-sell. BUT.... look at all that negative feedback! And the shipping cost seems high ($100 to NJ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fury161 Posted January 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, JKent said: OK, fury's post appeared while I was typing. Here's a thought: ask the seller if he would be willing to remove a woofer to check the part number, then (if it's right) send you just the woofers & tweeters, for a lower shipping cost. Then you'd have a spare set of tweets to either keep for an emergency or re-sell. That might work... I'm actually kind of amazed that he has 11 watchers at $179! I was originally planning to fix these up and flip them but I've kind of fallen in love with them now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, fury161 said: I was originally planning to fix these up and flip them but I've kind of fallen in love with them now... Ah! The danger of AR speakers!And now that I look closer, the paper domes on both tweeters appear to be torn. I'd pass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR55 Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 The ADD AR-17 came with 20001 8" woofer. AR also used this woofer for the ADD series AR-15, AR-16 & AR-18. It was also used in the earlier AR-7 and later in the AR-25 & AR-94. The 200037 8" woofer is a later model used in 8 ohm speakers. AR even tested this woofer in a AR-17 cabinet (see attached), so it should be a good substitution for the 20001. I believe that the 210037 model was the same spec as the 200037, but made by an outside vendor. I am not familiar with the 200027 model. 8-inch Woofer Spec-100037.TIF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fury161 Posted January 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 That is great information, thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nefertem Posted January 4, 2019 Report Share Posted January 4, 2019 The ones in the 93s had squared magnets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidR Posted January 4, 2019 Report Share Posted January 4, 2019 I have a pair of p/n 210045. These 8" drivers were used in models AR9LS, AR98, AR94 and others from that series. Refoamed and good DCR on the voice coils. I'm unable to get pictures to load. PM me if interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted January 4, 2019 Report Share Posted January 4, 2019 20 hours ago, frankmarsi said: Get these, ready to use? That ebay listing shows some interesting speakers, but certainly not a common pair - - - I suspect we are looking at a European model which may have been marketed as AR-17. Three things suggest Euro to me: the speckled rear paint; the squarish (not circular) rear cut-out for switch and terminals; and the font and style of ID badge. Further, those speakers are vinyl wrapped whereas OP fury161 has beautiful walnut veneer cabinets. Also, the fixed lower front panel is completely missing and subsequent grilles have been fabricated to extend over the entire front surface. Despite the damaged domes, the tweeters are original and accurate. Those woofers are AR drivers, too, but it's difficult to confirm the part number from frontal images only. 21 hours ago, fury161 said: The ideal replacement would be the 200001. 200037 would also be acceptable. But what about 210037 or 200027? Yes, the 001 woofer is the preferred driver, but be advised that this part number had more than one "look" to it. When this driver was used in the "classic" series (AR-6, AR-7, and I'll even include AR-MST), it appeared with only a single flat dust cap. When this same part number was used in later series of speaker models (AR-18, AR-17....etc.), it retained the flat dust cap, but it was completely concealed under a second domed "cosmetic" dust cap. Despite a few minor visual differences, the 200037 woofer appears nearly identical to the later 200001 woofer, and I think it has been established here that it is a suitable replacement driver. The 210037 driver was manufactured to identical performance standards, and it became the "factory replacement" unit. It was also use in AR's Rock Partner product. In comparison to the original 200037, the replacement 210037 has a different basket and a round magnet - - - it was manufactured by Tonegen and can be ID'd by the "TN" in its labeling nomenclature. Offhand, I am unfamiliar with the applications of the 200027 woofer - - can you tell us what you know about this driver? One other AR driver that might be a suitable replacement is 8-inch woofer p/n 200050. It is used in the AR-28B model, and is the only difference between it and the smaller AR-18B, which uses the 037 woofer. The driver is constructed a bit differently from the 001 and 037 woofers, but my thought is that if this part was an improvement as the model 18B was enlarged to the 28B, there might be a similar result if this driver was used in the AR-17, which is simply a larger volume AR-18. If you need drawings or pics of any of these woofers, please let me know. To the OP: your AR-17's are in very good shape, and with proper restoration, could become a wonderful and collectible pair of classic loudspeakers. Aside from cabinet size and finish, they share fully identical components with the AR-18, and remain a marketing curiosity between the AR-18 and AR-15 - - - hence, their rarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted January 4, 2019 Report Share Posted January 4, 2019 ra.ra. has again shown himself to be an expert on AR 8" speakers! Looking at the speakers Frank linked to, I did note the vinyl cabs but missed the evidence that the lower panel had been there at one time. Given ra.ra.'s info I would be inclined to buy the 210037s from this ebay seller: https://www.ebay.com/str/macb1984-15/Vintage-Electronics/_i.html?_sacat=183077&_sop=16&rt=nc He has 2 available and has a feedback score of 2012, with 100% positive. Probably would combine shipping. btw, I have nothing to do with this seller--just offering advice. You'll have to re-foam the woofers but we can give advice on that if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidR Posted January 4, 2019 Report Share Posted January 4, 2019 20 hours ago, nefertem said: The ones in the 93s had squared magnets Those might be actual AR drivers and not Tonegen. I'd go with those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fury161 Posted January 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2019 ra.ra, that is EXACTLY the information I needed! THat clears up the decision a whole lot more. I cannot thank you enough for that! JKent, I actually have those in my watchlist along with these: I'll check and see if the seller will combine shipping though, that would be a nice cost savings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fury161 Posted January 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2019 Well, he did combine so I have two new woofers on the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupidhead Posted January 5, 2019 Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 nice team effort! looking forward to updates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted January 5, 2019 Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 1 hour ago, fury161 said: Well, he did combine so I have two new woofers on the way! Whoa, Nelly.... this thread's movin' too fast for me - - - I thought I had looked at all the hyperlinks, but now I'm confused about exactly which woofers the OP has purchased for replacements. Please clarify. 2 hours ago, fury161 said: ...along with these.... In that auction, those are the Tonegen 037 replacement drivers. They are very good small woofers and should work just fine - - - only comment I'll add is that they've been re-foamed somewhat improperly. For some reason they have the foam inner lip placed under the cone and it should sit on top of the cone - - - I doubt that it affects performance very much, but it does look unsightly. Probably not necessary at this point, but just to post further info for posterity and to complete a thought, attached are some pics of the drivers discussed. First pic shows woofer backsides of (from L to R): part numbers 001, 037, 050. Next three pics show frontsides of same woofers in same order. 001 woofer (flat cap) originated in an AR-7 and was used in AR-MST restoration - - the cone was traumatically damaged in transit but was sufficiently repaired with delicate surgery. Next is 037 woofer from AR-18B with heavy-texture paper cone and rubbery domed dust cap, and same basket and magnet as 001. Third driver shown is 050 woofer from AR-28B - - - this woofer has smooth paper cone (with spliced seam), permeable dust cap, and inner lip of foam under the cone. Basket/spider configuration is different from the others, as shown in final pic (037 on left; 050 on right). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted January 5, 2019 Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 8 hours ago, JKent said: ra.ra. has again shown himself to be an expert on AR 8" speakers! Kent, your comment is much appreciated, but as one who has been in this forum far longer than me and who has been instrumental in setting the proper tone for helpfulness, you already know that any knowledge I've developed has largely been acquired from (in descending order): 1) those members who came before me; 2) the excellent documents in the CSP Library; and 3) my modest mongrel collection of small AR two-way speaker models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fury161 Posted January 5, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 Oof. Sorry. I get going quick sometimes and neglect to explain to others where my head is at, it appears I did it again. I will clarify. I went with these. This seller was very accommodating and agreed to warrant them as being fully operational, and to combine shipping. The seller for the other link I provided, while being more expensive was offering them on a as-is, no returns basis (and was a bit of a jerk...). Further, I went with ones that needed the refoam because I have read repeatedly here that using the wrong foam will dampen the speaker and decrease performance. I elected to do the job myself so I can ensure the correct parts are used in the process. The savings on these should more than cover the cost of the refoam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted January 5, 2019 Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 Don't know if you need any help with the re-foam but just in case... This is a good source http://www.speakerworks.com/Default.asp Many members have recommended ebay seller looneytune2001 https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_ssn=looneytune2001&LH_PrefLoc=2&_from=R40&_trksid=p2499338.m570.l1313.TR9.TRC0.A0.H0.XAR+8".TRS1&_nkw=AR+8"&_sacat=0 I strongly recommend the white, water-based glue over the solvent-based. Much more forgiving. And cut those dust caps off, vacuum the gap, shim and install new dust caps. More advice if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted January 5, 2019 Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 1 hour ago, fury161 said: I went with these. Yep, those Tonegen 037 woofers should work out just fine. I think I've posted this before, but this image shows an identical pair of woofers which were used as factory service replacements for some AR-7's - - - you can see how they were originally factory labeled as 037 drivers, but eventually shipped out with stickers calling them 001 drivers. Congrats, good luck, keep us posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lARrybody Posted January 5, 2019 Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 I have compared the 037 Tonegen woofers (round magnet) with original 037 woofers (square magnet), identically refoamed and installed in identical AR25 speakers and I cannot here a bit of difference. So I agree the two different versions are interchangeable. The 200001 woofers are hard to find. The best way is grab them in a set of old speakers, but then the catch 22, you end up with another set speakers to restore. Here is a set of original 037 woofers from some AR18B speakers. I refoamed them with filled fillet boston type surrounds, got rid of the poly dust cap and replace with some flat dust caps cut form a egg carton, covered with mesh dust caps (55-57mm) and painted cones with diluted rit dye. They now look like the 200001 woofer on the left except for the eight mounting holes as compared to four, but you only use four anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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