eBay - damaged AR9's - $150 - NY

[SHOKDU]

I don't know if this guy has all the drivers as well, but this water damage wouldn't really scare me off. I guess it just depends how bad the cabs are. If he has all the drivers and the cabs are repairable, this could be a good project for somebody!

http://bit.ly/WLbcw8

[JKent]

“Just the empty towers with crossovers intact”

Undoubtedly a Hurricane Sandy victim. Just the xo's and badly damaged cabinets. Local pickup only.

I'll pass.

Kent

[Tom H.]

Hmm. They from Amityville NY. They look like a "horror" project to me. That's too bad, they looked to be in good shape before the flood.

[stan461]

I feel so bad. This is obviously a flood victim.

And yet, you have to wonder where the drivers are.

Never there or parted-out already.

[SHOKDU]

Ok, so no drivers with the cabinets. Bummer.

Id offer the guy $25-50 for them if I was close. The pictures are post flood I believe, and the cabs don't look beyond repair. It would all depend on the shape of the MDF behind the veneer. I'd fix the cabs, throw AB tech replacements in it, and whatever other drivers I could find on ebay, and just live with em.

[Pete B]

I think they are calling me to do the full mod with modern drivers that I outlined many years ago

- I've found much less expensive drivers that I like for the application:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=1189&hl=fora

I don't know what is going on with the forum but the posts in that thread are out of order, with

all of the negativity to start the thread, LOL! The problem is that the drivers are becoming more

and more difficult to find and who knows, perhaps one could do better with modern drivers.

The first thing I'd do is reduce the center to center spacing of the UMD and tweeter.

I'd really like to know how bad the water damage is because I don't need another basket case

project.

[michiganpat]

I think they are calling me to do the full mod with modern drivers that I outlined many years ago

- I've found much less expensive drivers that I like for the application:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=1189&hl=fora

I don't know what is going on with the forum but the posts in that thread are out of order, with

all of the negativity to start the thread, LOL! The problem is that the drivers are becoming more

and more difficult to find and who knows, perhaps one could do better with modern drivers.

The first thing I'd do is reduce the center to center spacing of the UMD and tweeter.

I'd really like to know how bad the water damage is because I don't need another basket case

project.

would be fun to see or at least do the mental gymnastics...

some thoughts as far as current driver selection....

for the LMR is you wanted to stick with an 8", how about a pro driver? something like this eminence:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=290-404

http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/290-404s.pdf

suggested cab, .177 ft^3, heavy fill, F3 is 146hz

http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/more-info/290-404-eminence-beta-8a-more-info.pdf

of course, you could get away with a smaller driver, something in the 6.5" range...for the price, this would make a great LMR

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=299-030

with tweeter technology, it kinda sorta makes the dome mid unneccessary, just find a tweeter that you can cross low, in the 2khz range, like any number of seas, vifas, morels, or the dayton reference line.

finding a 12" woofer that would play nice in a sealed cabinet these days would be the hard part....would be nice to go to 8ohm nominal woofers and keep minimum impedance above 4 ohm to make it more amp friendly, but then inductors for the 12"ers would get awefully expensive...

[Pete B]

I've had my eye on that Eminence 8" but mainly for high efficiency designs.

Not sure if it would work well in the AR-9 certainly not drop in.

Do we have the T&S parameters for the driver originally used in the AR-9?

There are a lot of possiblities for the LMR.

Sure you could eliminate the UMR but in the spirit of keeping it 4-way I would

keep it.

[ligs]

I believe AR 90 uses the same 8" LMR as AR 9. The parameters of this LMR, according to Carl http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=2132

are:

8"

Fs 38 hz
Re 5.75 ohms
Qts .47
Qes .7
Qms 1.3
Le .42 mH

I wonder if Carl measured the TS parameters of other more widely available AR 8" drivers such as AR 18 woofer with parts number ending in 037.

The magnetic structure and the size of the VC of the AR 9, 90 LMR and AR 18 woofer look about the same except a larger dust cover is used in the LMR.

[Pete B]

Thanks, wish we had a Vas measurement or even better cone mass. Cone and

VC mass measured on a scale would be fine also. 8" woofer directly wired input

impedance in system would also help. Even Fc measured in system.

Here are the drivers used as mentioned in another thread:

8" Mid
AR-9 = 200027
AR-90 = 200027

Upper Mid
AR-9 = 200028
AR-90 = 200028

Tweeter
AR-9 = 200029-1
AR-90 = 200029
AR-92 = 200029-1

Is the tweeter very different from an AR-11 tweeter?

My measurements of the AR-11 200011-1 tweeter, just to be clear this is not

the AR-9 tweeter:

Fs = 2427 Hz
Re = 3.55
Qe = 2.76
Qm = 1.57
Qt = 1.00

From, again posts are out of order for some reason:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=1381

Those 9s are really tempting since I like BIG speakers!

[ligs]

200027 is also used in AR 94 (along with 200001).

After I sold my AR9's I built a pair of 3.5 ft3 sealed subs using NHT 1259's for the low bass. This NHT 1259 12"woofer has 13 mm linear travel(one way) and 507 cm2 piston area. On the paper one NHT 1259 will have the same linear displacement as two AR 12" woofers. NHT 1259 was used in NHT's flagship model Model 3.3. http://www.kenkantor.com/press_clippings/NHT1259_FAQ.pdf

According to this Stereophile review, the 3.3s' low-end performance was a marvel.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/nht-33-loudspeaker-norton-page-2

So, instead of using two AR 12 woofers how about using just one NHT 1259 woofer in each AR 9 cabinet, with the necessary crossover modification?

[Pete B]

I have a pair of 1259s on each side in my main rig that I bought from the initial buy when they

were made available outside of NHT. Were you on the Bass list years ago?

My choice would be to use a pair, but they are no longer available or did they bring them back?

Madisound was having them made for a while after NHT stopped.

[ligs]

Yes I was on the BASS list and bought my NHT 1259s through the group discount:)

Members of the BASS list were civil and generous and I remember them fondly!

[RoyC]

Is the tweeter very different from an AR-11 tweeter?

Pete,

The AR-9 tweeter is recessed in the faceplate, and the AR-11 tweeter is not. Otherwise they are same.

Roy

[Pete B]

Thanks Roy, I didn't notice that about the AR-9 tweeter, is it just the thickness

of the face plate, or more of a lens?

Do you think the 11 tweeter would sound right without mods?

[RoyC]

Thanks Roy, I didn't notice that about the AR-9 tweeter, is it just the thickness

of the face plate, or more of a lens?

Do you think the 11 tweeter would sound right without mods?

It is just the thickness of the faceplate. I bet it would work acceptably in the 9.

For that matter, the only difference between the AR-9 style mid and the later back-wired AR-3a/AR-11 mid is the removal of the metal grille and fiberglass, and the addition of a plastic ring. The protruding ring around the dome is simply glued to the original faceplate. It appears that AR changed the faceplates of the AR-11 style tweeter and mid to make the response somewhat more directional for the AR-9 series. Electrically they all measure about the same.

Roy

[Pete B]

Thanks again Roy.

Is there an easy way to get the grille off of the older mid, heat or ? Really doesn't

seem to be a solution since I'd need the lens. I suppose someone might have some

from blown AR-9 UMDs.

I read of people picking up AR-9's for $300 or $400 and these with no drivers and water damage

then do not look like any sort of bargain. I never seem to come across those $300-400 deals!

[RoyC]

Thanks again Roy.

Is there an easy way to get the grille off of the older mid, heat or ? Really doesn't

seem to be a solution since I'd need the lens. I suppose someone might have some

from blown AR-9 UMDs.

I read of people picking up AR-9's for $300 or $400 and these with no drivers and water damage

then do not look like any sort of bargain. I never seem to come across those $300-400 deals!

Hey Pete, I have at least one plastic lens/ring you can have, and I believe I can get another one from Larry ("Vintage AR"). We've recently converted a number of AR-9 series mids for use in the 3a by removing rings and installing the metal grille/fiberglass pad combo from dead 3a mids. The metal grille pops off easily if you slide something under it. (Btw, the only practical difference between the 9 series mids with silver and black colored plastic rings, or the AR-11 style mids with silver and black metal grilles, is the color.)

Those $150 beasts are not worth the trouble, imo.

As an aside, I was able to listen to AR-9's, AR 10pi's, and NHT 3.3's side by side awhile back with a few other forum members. The NHT's with a single 1259 woofer per cabinet were the favorite by all in attendance. The 10pi's were a distant 3rd. The 9's were a close second.

Roy

[Pete B]

Thanks very much for the tips and the offer Roy, let me see if I even get these.

Hard to believe that my last thread on the subject was in 2005, before you know

it, it will have been a decade ago.

[Pete B]

Yes I was on the BASS list and bought my NHT 1259s through the group discount:)

Members of the BASS list were civil and generous and I remember them fondly!

I don't remember your ligs name from the Bass List, mind if I ask what

online name you used there?

[ligs]

Hi Pete,

I probably used my email address at BP where I retired years ago.

My recollection of group buying NHT 1259 was through A&S Speakers. Correct?

[Pete B]

Hi Pete,

I probably used my email address at BP where I retired years ago.

My recollection of group buying NHT 1259 was through A&S Speakers. Correct?

I used my email address at LSI logic. Yes it was from A&S speakers as I recall also.

[fast_eddie_72]

Thanks again Roy.

Is there an easy way to get the grille off of the older mid, heat or ? Really doesn't

seem to be a solution since I'd need the lens. I suppose someone might have some

from blown AR-9 UMDs.

I read of people picking up AR-9's for $300 or $400 and these with no drivers and water damage

then do not look like any sort of bargain. I never seem to come across those $300-400 deals!

Mine are rough, and both tweeters were blown, but I did get them on craigslist for $400. I honestly would have preferred to find a pair for a couple hundred more that were in better condition, even if they were in similar need of tweeters. But I'd been looking for a very long time when they finally popped up. I figured it would be about the only chance I'd have to get a pair.

Another, very nice looking pair did turn up just a couple of months ago, but the seller was asking quite a bit, even for nice AR9s. At least in my opinion. So I'm glad I got what I got. Now I just wish I had a room that suited them better, but we can't have everything, can we?

I'd love to see someone save those, but it would be a full on charity case. Buying all the drivers to get them going would cost a quite a bit, and then you'd still have a very ugly pair of AR9s. Really a shame.