My second pair of 3a's better than my first

[Shacky]

Just finished my second pair of AR 3a's. These were an eBay purchase many years ago. Had trouble with a woofer and recently came across two very nice woofers at Audio Karma which Carl refoamed and completed my project.

I used Dayton 5% on mid with 0.047 PIO Russian Military bypas cap for $#!%%'s and giggles, Dayton 1% plus same bypass on tweeter, left original Sprague in place for woofers, replace pots with Ohmites, incorporated updated binding posts which may also have leant to better sound by insuring better contacts internally and externally, and added some FG to bring weight up to sepc.

I am truly amazed that these sound even better than my first which I felt were already exceptional. I'm driving them with a Sansui 9090DB - a match made in heaven.

This project could not have been possible without the strong help from Roy, Johnieo, Carl, JKent, Gene, Soundminded and others here at CSP's. I think you all from the bottom of my heart. I'm now closer to Audio Nirvana than ever in my life!!!

Cosmetic resto of cabs to continue when weather improves - and in Rochester that may take some time ; )

[Shacky]

BTW - only had red hook up wire on hand so any qireing I changed is in red. When adding the new binding posts I made sure the wire endings including inductor coil wires are clean as a whistle. I'm actually thinking this may have contributed to better sound as I realized how cruddy the old connectors and screw posts were.

In this picture I had incorrectly attached the Woofer coil wire to negative post and have corrected this.

I used cap ends from T-12 Flourescent Light Covers available at HD to cover the Ohmite pots on one speaker and fabricated shrink wrap on the other. I like the T-12 end caps best. I had already attached the shrink wrap to the first one I worked on and they were well in place so I decided to leave them.

[Shacky]

Here's how they look with their clothes on:

[genek]

Shacky, did you end up doing anything with the finish, or is it still just sanded?

[Shacky]

Still just sanded. Think I'll need to stain them or I have a lot more sanding to do. What stain do you recommend?

[genek]

Good question. For the past couple of years I've been doing everything with a combination stain/oil finish by Minwax called Woodsheen, but it appears that they've discontinued the oil-based product and now only offer a water-based version, which I haven't tried yet.

[JKent]

Still just sanded. Think I'll need to stain them or I have a lot more sanding to do. What stain do you recommend?

I like Howard's Restore-a-finish. It comes in walnut and other colors. You can use it over your sanded surfaces if there are still bits of the original finish and this will even everything out. Then use Watco Danish Oil.

A question about your Russian PiO caps: You used them with Dayton 6uF and 50uF. I don't really understand the bypass concept but I understand that some people find them smoother, especially in guitar amps. So... why not use oil caps? You can get them in the 6uF and 50uF values. They are a little bulky but would fit in a big AR3a box. Would oil caps like this (pic) work or am I missing something?

Kent

[Shacky]

I like Howards but someone told me not to use if I sanded finish. As you can see in picture there are bits of the finish left. And why use Watco's Dansih Oil over the Howards?

I'll bet those big oil caps would be nice. Where are they available?

I used the bypass caps mainly because I had them. Bought them for a JBL project a few years ago and ended up buying a box of them for cheap on eBay. I don't fully understand the concept either other than in general it is supposed to reduce hysteresis or allow higher freq to more easily pass through. I've read where it can make mediocre caps sound more like boutique caps. Then again I've heard charges that it can add distortion.

I was happy with the results on my JBL and a pair pf EPI M202 I used them on. I hadn't used them on an AR project till now. I'm not sure how much it has to do with the great sound I'm getting from this pair of 3a's but I may go back in my other and add the bypass caps as well as new binding posts which I'm thinking are having more positive effect than bypass caps. Or it just could be this set of drivers is in better shape.

I'm simply amazed at the midrange sound I'm getting. Crystal clear and silky smooth. A ton of inner detail coming through - so much that some recordings are letting me hear things I hadn't before.

I'm definitely going to have to go back into my other pair to try to bring them up to this level. To me it seems it's all in the midrange driver performance. Maybe my other pair isn't getting the best contact - I did not change anything on the internal wiring connections. After installing new binding post on this pair it made me realize how "cruddy" those old connectors and screw posts are. At the very least I should have cleaned and polished the originals inside and out.

Roy also gave me a last minute tip about not putting too much stuffing directly behind the woofer as it can muddy up the mid bass.

To me these are the perfect speaker! I give more credit to the original design and tips from Roy, John and others here to insure I'm as close to that original design as possible.

[JKent]

I like Howards but someone told me not to use if I sanded finish. As you can see in picture there are bits of the finish left. And why use Watco's Dansih Oil over the Howards?

I'll bet those big oil caps would be nice. Where are they available?

The Howards product is not a finish, so I use Watco Oil over it. You could just use their Feed n Wax or Citrus Shield Paste Wax. On radios, that require a glossy finish, I use Minwax Antique Oil over it. You just can't use a hard finish like varnish or lacquer over Howard's.

I have used it over sanded wood with no ill effects. If the old finish is not completely removed (as in your case) the Howard's evens it out. If you want, go to their website and inquire. I got a fast reply when I asked a question.

http://www.howardproducts.com/questions.asp

FWIW I try not to sand vintage cabinets at all. Veneer is unforgiving. I've found that Formby's makes a very good stripper. This is discussed a little in Rev 2 of my KLH Model Eight Restoration pamphlet (sent it to Mark yesterday, so watch for it) (shameless plug )

Those caps and others are available from Surplus Sales of Nebraska

http://www.surplussales.com/Capacitors/Oil...ilCapIndex.html

Happy to hear of your great results with the 3a's!

Kent

[genek]

Restor-a-Finish and other similar products are intended to slightly soften existing finishes to allow rubbing to even out rough patches and light scratches, and to allow the heat from the rubbing friction to drive out moisture that has penetrated into a finish (this last part mostly for varnishes rather than oil finishes). The colored varieties add dyes that can enhance faded colors slightly. But they are neither finishes nor strippers, and they do not protect unfinished wood or remove old finishes prior to applying new ones. You can usually get away with applying new finish after using them as long as the new finish is the same as the old one (oil over oil, varnish over varnish), as there isn't much left behind after the solvent evaporates.

If the look of the sanded veneer bugs you, you could apply some of the colored R-a-F and pretty it up temporarily, but if you're waiting for the spring thaw so you can refinish outdoors or just open windows to ventilate your workspace, the vapors from R-a-F are at least as nasty as any finish you might be contemplating using.

[Shacky]

I think I'd like to try something other than R-a-F. Will probably wait till spring. The unfinished/sanded veneer isn't so bad and their sound makes up for any blemishes. I do want them to look there best by Spring though.

They continue to amaze me as far as airy, vibrant midrange. They sometimes through an impressively wide soundstage - even though that's not something I've been looking for.

I think these would have faired much better in Peter Breunenger's audition last year. Not that I thought my other pair sounded bad. But know that I know what they are capable of it raises the bar.

[JKent]

As long as we're being creative here...

I was in Wally World and found these mini loaf tins, 5 for $1.50. The pots on my AR2ax's are 1.75" apart. The pic shows the Ohmites temporarily mounted in a cardboard box, spaced 1.75" apart. The loaf tin should cover them just fine. It can be cut with scissors to make holes for the wires. If you want to get fancy you could cut a window with a mat knife and glue a piece of window screen in, for more ventilation. The tin could be glued down with hot melt or even screwed down.

Shacky--after your success with the 3a's I'm motivated to try the Ohmites and bypass caps in my 2ax's. Also considering replacing the tweets with Roy's HiVi mod.

btw--I still like R-a-F followed by numerous coats of Watco. Here's an article on how to get a really professional finish:

http://antiquerestorers.com/Articles/SAL/smothoil.htm

Kent

[Shacky]

Looks like they could work. I was uneasy about using anything metal for fear of a short if something shifted down the road. That's a big reason I was looking at the shrinkr wrap and flourescent end caps.

Glad you are motivated to fix up the 2AX's. I pulled my pair out this afternoon. One of the tweeters isn't playing. I have a spare though - if it's really the driver. I had cleaned up the original pots on my 2AX's - it was before I found the Ohmites. When I do crack them open again the Ohmites are going in. And likely binding posts too.

[Shacky]

btw--I still like R-a-F followed by numerous coats of Watco. Here's an article on how to get a really professional finish:

http://antiquerestorers.com/Articles/SAL/smothoil.htm

Kent

I like this idea to.

[genek]

btw--I still like R-a-F followed by numerous coats of Watco. Here's an article on how to get a really professional finish:

http://antiquerestorers.com/Articles/SAL/smothoil.htm

That looks like a lot more work than just wiping in some grain filler...

[Dave S.]

Still just sanded. Think I'll need to stain them or I have a lot more sanding to do. What stain do you recommend?

I second or third Howard's and Watco. I've done AR9LS, AR9, AR11, EPI 180, Allison One and Three, and Philips AH-477 all with Howards and Watco oil and they turn out great. After sanding and steel wool I apply the Howards with 0000 steel wool. Here are the Philips "Restore-a-finished" but not yet oiled. These speakers were in fairly rough shape when I got them.

[Shacky]

Since I already have R-a-F Walnut and Watco Danish Oil looks like this will be how I role. I'm in Rochester so no chance I'm going outside for a few months.

Can this be safely done next to a cracked window?

[Dan Skye]

Sansui power and AR 3 or 3a's ! Heaven indeed

I just put together a surround system with AU 9500 AR 3 for fronts AU 5900 AR 3a's for back and powered patner for center

Boy oh boy it s great to have~!\

I had a San' receiver growing up and it sounded smashing as well; cant believe I threw it out when it broke (DOH)

Just finished my second pair of AR 3a's. These were an eBay purchase many years ago. Had trouble with a woofer and recently came across two very nice woofers at Audio Karma which Carl refoamed and completed my project.

I used Dayton 5% on mid with 0.047 PIO Russian Military bypas cap for $#!%%'s and giggles, Dayton 1% plus same bypass on tweeter, left original Sprague in place for woofers, replace pots with Ohmites, incorporated updated binding posts which may also have leant to better sound by insuring better contacts internally and externally, and added some FG to bring weight up to sepc.

I am truly amazed that these sound even better than my first which I felt were already exceptional. I'm driving them with a Sansui 9090DB - a match made in heaven.

This project could not have been possible without the strong help from Roy, Johnieo, Carl, JKent, Gene, Soundminded and others here at CSP's. I think you all from the bottom of my heart. I'm now closer to Audio Nirvana than ever in my life!!!

Cosmetic resto of cabs to continue when weather improves - and in Rochester that may take some time ; )

[Pete B]

That looks like a lot more work than just wiping in some grain filler...

I tried Howard's RAF on the oak edging of our kitchen counter and it looked

like new after application. Lasted about 2 weeks. It might be fine for

furniture that gets little wear but was not of much use in this application.

I'll probably use stain with a top coat next time around, any suggestions for

brands that work well for spot repairs?

Watco comes in a few different colors by the way, so what is the purpose of

using RAF first? Is it to avoid removing all of the old finish since it blends

better with the old? Do you use a light color Watco over it when going over

RAF?

[genek]

I tried Howard's RAF on the oak edging of our kitchen counter and it looked

like new after application. Lasted about 2 weeks. It might be fine for

furniture that gets little wear but was not of much use in this application.

I'll probably use stain with a top coat next time around, any suggestions for

brands that work well for spot repairs?

Watco comes in a few different colors by the way, so what is the purpose of

using RAF first? Is it to avoid removing all of the old finish since it blends

better with the old? Do you use a light color Watco over it when going over

RAF?

RAF before refinishing without sanding would be to thoroughly remove all traces of old furniture polish wax, etc., to force out any moisture in the old finish (white rings) and to smooth out uneven surfaces in the old finish (wear zones, light scratches, etc.). In Shacky's case, where much of the finish has been sanded off but some remains, it'd probably be quicker and less expensive to just resand with a finer paper or wipe on/off some chemical stripper, but tinted RAF might provide a temporary improvement in appearance until he's ready to refinish.

Before I got lazy and started using the oil-based wipe-on that Minwax has just discontinued, I was using finishes from Mohawk. http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/catalog_browse.asp

[JKent]

Looks like they could work. I was uneasy about using anything metal for fear of a short if something shifted down the road.

OK. How 'bout this? Cheap food storage container from the Dollar Store. Divided in the middle, so one container could be cut in half and each section used for 1 speaker. Think these came 2 or 3 for $1. I use them to store small parts like vacuum tubes.

Kent