AR12....VERY impressive!

[joelongwood]

As some of you may or may not know, I've been quite addicted to the sound of vintage AR speakers, and, over the past few years have accumulated quite a few examples of AR speakers from their heyday (late 50s to early to mid 70s). I never had any interest in the late 70s models, even though I had never heard any. They just seemed less impressive.......the use of vinyl cabs, not veneer, the change from the classic AR logo to a stilted, modern one, and the fact that they seemed to be changing their design philosophy from one of accuracy to one that emphasized appeal to the mass market.

In any case, I spied a CL ad for a pair of AR12 and picked them up Saturday for $50. I spent the rest of the day cleaning the cabs (which were in great shape except for the usual circular water stain on top of one of them), refoaming the 10" woofers, repairing the foam on the midrange (used a thin layer of thinned latex caulk to seal the cracks and fissures), and replacing the foam rings around the tweeters with some air conditioner filter foam.

From what I've read, these AR12s could be considered the successor to the venerable AR5, a pair of which I've had since 1969. The ads touted them as having a sound very similar to the AR11, but with a 10" rather than a 12" woofer, so their bass would not get that last 1/3 octave.

Sunday I began listening (JVC A-x900 integrated with 120 watts per channel, circa 1986), and was startled to find, not only the classic AR sound that I've loved for so long, but one with a little more balls. The bass is exemplary. It's extremely tight, deep and tuneful. The mids are slightly more forward than older ARs, but it never becomes too much. The highs are extended and very sweet.

Of course, this could all be the infamous new toy syndrome, but I honestly don't think so. Right now I'm listening to some vinyl Peter Tosh (Equal Rights), and am mightily impressed by how these speakers convey not only the bass lines, but also his voice.........it sounds damned real to me. There's a bit more body to the vocals than that which exists with the AR5, and the high end is very similar.

All in all, I'd rank these speakers up there with some of the best that Acoustic Research produced, or at least the one's I've heard. I'm a happy camper.

[genek]

As some of you may or may not know, I've been quite addicted to the sound of vintage AR speakers, and, over the past few years have accumulated quite a few examples of AR speakers from their heyday (late 50s to early to mid 70s). I never had any interest in the late 70s models, even though I had never heard any. They just seemed less impressive.......the use of vinyl cabs, not veneer, the change from the classic AR logo to a stilted, modern one, and the fact that they seemed to be changing their design philosophy from one of accuracy to one that emphasized appeal to the mass market.

My impression of AR's top of the line speakers from 75-90 was a small increase in sound quality, a large increase in manufacturing quality and a huge downward slide in visual design. IMO, the mid 80's 303 by Ken Kantor's team is sonicallly every bit the equal of the old AR-3a, but unfortunately is trapped in a big, black, 80's monolith that has none of the 3a's visual luxury (wood, natural fabric, etc.) I'd love to have a pair of them, a pile of walnut veneer and a bolt of linen in my workshop.

[Guest goatdoc]

I'm rebuilding my original 12's I bought around 76, I am getting some new mids and one tweet, from my reading here the replacement tweeter from AB Tech isn't exact but whats a guy gonna do. I do love the sound these put out . Detail and accuracy. I remember when I got them ,my friends thought I should get the more popular JBL, but I'm still happy 32 years latter. I wish all my choices had been as good.

[joelongwood]

I'm rebuilding my original 12's I bought around 76, I am getting some new mids and one tweet, from my reading here the replacement tweeter from AB Tech isn't exact but whats a guy gonna do. I do love the sound these put out . Detail and accuracy. I remember when I got them ,my friends thought I should get the more popular JBL, but I'm still happy 32 years latter. I wish all my choices had been as good.

Where, pray tell, did you find new mids? I searched everywhere and could only find a pair from Vintage AR on eBay that had the incorrect surrounds. If the real item exists, I'd love to know about it, cause I fear my foam fix of the originals may fail in time......but they work great now.

[Guest goatdoc]

I called AB Tech, they said they would send some when they became available, I don,t have them yet but we shall see, maybe a replacement piece of junk, but will see. If no good then I will rebuild my oldies by someone I guess.

[joelongwood]

I called AB Tech, they said they would send some when they became available, I don,t have them yet but we shall see, maybe a replacement piece of junk, but will see. If no good then I will rebuild my oldies by someone I guess.

Thanks for the info..........what exactly is wrong with your mids? Are they inoperative (blown), or is the foam deteriorated?

[Guest goatdoc]

Thanks for the info..........what exactly is wrong with your mids? Are they inoperative (blown), or is the foam deteriorated?

Neither is blown, one has a nice surround, but it had a mid level buzz at some prolonged intrumental passes that annoyes me, the other has deteriored foam. It works ok but can't last long without a good surround. Does someone make a refoam for this size driver, I would try that too, as well as see what the replacements look and sound like. No one seems to have the plastic cup either. I have one that is broken, I have repaired with epoxy but not sure it will last. My speakers are in very good shape sonically and cosmetically beside the above problems. I just want to keep them at top performance . I am very addicted to their sound and my vinyl just won't sound "right" without the AR's.

[Robert_S]

I'm rebuilding my original 12's I bought around 76, I am getting some new mids and one tweet, from my reading here the replacement tweeter from AB Tech isn't exact but whats a guy gonna do

Hello,

The following may be of interest to you (note: I am in no way associated with this auction!):

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=270211365684

According to RoyC (in the topic linked below, see post #6), the 200011-2 is the correct tweeter for the AR-12:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Boar...?showtopic=2120

Hope that helps.

Robert_S

[entropy]

Hi,

If anyone is still monitoring this thread, I just sent a pair of AR-12 midrange drivers off to Bill Legall at Miller Sound in Pennsylvania for refoaming for a friend. We just got them back - Bill did a great job, I HIGHLY recommend him. For someone so well known in the field, his charge was surprisingly inexpensive.

http://www.millersound.net/

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/roadtou...roadtour13.html

I hopes this helps someone else resurrect a pair of these classics.

[joelongwood]

Hi,

If anyone is still monitoring this thread, I just sent a pair of AR-12 midrange drivers off to Bill Legall at Miller Sound in Pennsylvania for refoaming for a friend. We just got them back - Bill did a great job, I HIGHLY recommend him. For someone so well known in the field, his charge was surprisingly inexpensive.

http://www.millersound.net/

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/roadtou...roadtour13.html

I hopes this helps someone else resurrect a pair of these classics.

Thanks for the info, entropy. When my makeshift foam repair starts to go bad, I'll be contacting Miller Sound. Right now, though, it seems to be holding up quite well.

Thanks again.

[Guest JonM]

My impression of AR's top of the line speakers from 75-90 was a small increase in sound quality, a large increase in manufacturing quality and a huge downward slide in visual design. IMO, the mid 80's 303 by Ken Kantor's team is sonicallly every bit the equal of the old AR-3a, but unfortunately is trapped in a big, black, 80's monolith that has none of the 3a's visual luxury (wood, natural fabric, etc.) I'd love to have a pair of them, a pile of walnut veneer and a bolt of linen in my workshop.

I'm not sure about that "small increase" in sound quality. I owned 2ax's (new) in the mid 1970's. I currently have a pair of 7's, a pair of 3a's, a single 3, a pair of 1w's, and a pair of 10 pi's (the ones I rescued from a dumpster late last year). I have listened to 4's, and briefly owned a pair of LST's. The 10 pi's are (IMO) the best of the bunch, by a large margin. They are consistently wonderful - I shake my head every time I listen to them at just how good they are.

But I agree about the styling. I do love the look of the 3a. The 10 pi's in a 3a cabinet would be hard to touch. (I do wonder what a pair of LST's done with 10 pi drivers would be like - probably out of this world sonically and visually :-)

[Shacky]

As some of you may or may not know, I've been quite addicted to the sound of vintage AR speakers, and, over the past few years have accumulated quite a few examples of AR speakers from their heyday (late 50s to early to mid 70s). I never had any interest in the late 70s models, even though I had never heard any. They just seemed less impressive.......the use of vinyl cabs, not veneer, the change from the classic AR logo to a stilted, modern one, and the fact that they seemed to be changing their design philosophy from one of accuracy to one that emphasized appeal to the mass market.

In any case, I spied a CL ad for a pair of AR12 and picked them up Saturday for $50. I spent the rest of the day cleaning the cabs (which were in great shape except for the usual circular water stain on top of one of them), refoaming the 10" woofers, repairing the foam on the midrange (used a thin layer of thinned latex caulk to seal the cracks and fissures), and replacing the foam rings around the tweeters with some air conditioner filter foam.

From what I've read, these AR12s could be considered the successor to the venerable AR5, a pair of which I've had since 1969. The ads touted them as having a sound very similar to the AR11, but with a 10" rather than a 12" woofer, so their bass would not get that last 1/3 octave.

Sunday I began listening (JVC A-x900 integrated with 120 watts per channel, circa 1986), and was startled to find, not only the classic AR sound that I've loved for so long, but one with a little more balls. The bass is exemplary. It's extremely tight, deep and tuneful. The mids are slightly more forward than older ARs, but it never becomes too much. The highs are extended and very sweet.

Of course, this could all be the infamous new toy syndrome, but I honestly don't think so. Right now I'm listening to some vinyl Peter Tosh (Equal Rights), and am mightily impressed by how these speakers convey not only the bass lines, but also his voice.........it sounds damned real to me. There's a bit more body to the vocals than that which exists with the AR5, and the high end is very similar.

All in all, I'd rank these speakers up there with some of the best that Acoustic Research produced, or at least the one's I've heard. I'm a happy camper.

Glad to hear you like the 12's!!! Since I know we have very similar tastes in speakers, I'm sure I would too. Will have to keep an eye out for them. I'm missing my 3a's which are on vacation with Peter. And I donated my 5's to my son though they have HiVi tweeters.

And one of my 2AX tweeters stoped working. I do have a spare for that - it's the older model 1" red/orange.

Listening to KLH 6's now. Not too shabby.

[Ruud]

Hello Joe Longwood,

we are trying to fix our AR12 , no need to explain why, We had them since the early 70ties, Now we just received our replacement woofers and tweeters. Still looking to replace our midranges..or repair these as you mentioned with latex caulk. I am complete amateur when it comes to repairs. i added a picture asking you or anyone on the forum, Can this really be fixed with latex caulk (i suppose the liquid version) ???  Would it be that simple ?

 

thanks for any advice!

[ra.ra]

You are going to have to remove and replace that rotted foam. Check out Glenn's excellent re-hab of his AR-12's here.

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/ar-12-restoration-pics.698197/

And see the work done by member Anthropologo here.

 

[michiganpat]

Glenn give a quicker response than the dude who posted 7 years ago....(holy zombie thread, batman!)

[Ruud]

thnks ra.ra !  You put me on the right track. i will work my way through now.  great forum, rise and shine michigan..no thread ends. 

[lakecat]

Don't caulk.....here is the correct foam for the mids. I did mine last year or so and really like them. They seem to be the only one that carries this size.

http://www.speakerworks.com/2_inch_speaker_repair_kit_p/swk2.htm

[ra.ra]

Hey Ruud, We forgot to welcome you to this forum since these are your first posts!

And I should've remembered to post this link, which again shows Glenn's restoration project but also adds comments from lakecat and others.

 

[Ruud]

Hey Ra.Ra,

thank you! You are a great support!

 

Hi Lakecat,

thans for the link, indeed exactly what I need. Fortunately, as I have been paying my share of transport and taxes I found a local webstore who could provide me the same rings. Actually the mailman just delivered!  please see the link for those in Europe ( Netherlands) : and pic inserted for stuff provided.

http://speakerrepairshop.nl/index.php?action=page&group_id=10000033&lang=nl#.V6Md6FSLSM9

And, I did some work already early this morning; is it good ?

Tomorrowmorning I'll start glueing!!

 

[lakecat]

Can't tell on size but mine are this size to fit...

Surround Outside Diameter  2"
Speaker Cone Outside Diameter  1 9/16"
 

[Ruud]

Hi forum, Lake-cat, Ra.ra, anyone?

i hope you can help me..

Glueing the mids went okay, just done all the work and placed the refurbished mids in the cabinets, replaced the woofers with new ones! , and now stuck with replacing the new tweeters as the oldies nor the new ones indicate anything on the connection-plugs, not sure how you would call these.  I do no dare to proceed, gambling the connections. the oldies are connecte to a yellow on the left and a blue on the right.....could i just maintain left - right ?

i am so close now to connecting the set...can you help me out please?

thanks again!

 

 

[GD70]

Nice work on these so far. 

It might help to post a few pics of the new tweeters.

Glenn

[Ruud]

Thanks GD!

 

the new one has a red mark on the right side, (looking at the backside).

the oldies are similar on both sides, connected on the left to a yellow wire and on the right on a blue one..

 

i hope it helps..

[owlsplace]

Yes, welcome ... AR typically used yellow wire to the plus/positive side of its tweeters which would connect to your red terminal here.

Usually the woofers are just refoamed especially since you were the only owner. Was something wrong with them other than the surrounds? What did you replace them with?

Roger

[Ruud]

Owlsplace, thank you!  Exactly what i need...and a wise question indeed.  i am not sure they need to replaced. we were so happy to be able to order replacements at CMTechSupport which we understand manages the spares for AR, typically the oldies., we just did..

Anyway, triggered by your question, I just left them where they are and connected the set to our amp....and yess... wow... Sundaymorning will never be the same, or better Sunday morning returned, .. with the deep and rolling basses... crystal clear... the mids seem to hold just fine, we will be listening to our AR12es for a few years again!

Great thanks to this great forum, I could not have done it without you.  for the next issue I now know where to go!

Thank you for letting me resurrect this indeed holy zombie thread.