The Development of the AR9 Loudspeaker

[AR surround]

On 12/8/2022 at 3:28 PM, frankmarsi said:

^{Say AR-surround, did you do the train layout?  That's some fine work there and a lot of man hours.}

 

Thank you, Frank.  Yes, I built everything myself.

[johnfalc]

Lovely layout - wish I were closer as I'd love to see it in person, presuming that would be allowed.  John

[tysontom]

On 12/8/2022 at 7:39 AM, AR surround said:

OK Tom, here are four pics of the train layout that surrounds the AR surround sound system.  The layout goes through four rooms around the walls of the basement. I don't want to post too many pics as this is a forum on AR speakers and not model railroading.  However...in the third pic, note the Boston Acoustics A70 loudspeaker on the back wall.  That is the right-rear-surround speaker in the 7.1.5 system.  (Actually it is 7.0.5 because there is not need for subwoofers when the five main speakers are AR9, 90 and 915.)

 

Wow, that is a very nice layout!  Very, very impressive, along with your sound system!  Well done!

[AR surround]

22 hours ago, tysontom said:

Wow, that is a very nice layout!  Very, very impressive, along with your sound system!  Well done!

Thank you, Tom.

[DavidR]

Don't invite an Addams over ...............

 

 

[tysontom]

On 12/8/2022 at 7:39 AM, AR surround said:

OK Tom, here are four pics of the train layout that surrounds the AR surround sound system.  The layout goes through four rooms around the walls of the basement. I don't want to post too many pics as this is a forum on AR speakers and not model railroading.  However...in the third pic, note the Boston Acoustics A70 loudspeaker on the back wall.  That is the right-rear-surround speaker in the 7.1.5 system.  (Actually it is 7.0.5 because there is not need for subwoofers when the five main speakers are AR9, 90 and 915.)

 

I still can't get over how nice a job you did with your HO layout!  Great engine shed in that last image (I apologize to the CSP group for deviating from the topic of AR loudspeakers).  I think it's great to combine two hobbies in one setting, and you definitely must have a very accomodating and sweet wife, too!  

Fantastic!  —Tom

[genek]

On 12/9/2022 at 3:18 PM, AR surround said:

Thank you, Frank.  Yes, I built everything myself.

Are you routing railroad sound effects through the audio system? 

[ar_pro]

Fantastic layout - absolutely beautiful!

Always loved trains - my father had a great set of Lionel O-Gauge trains that he'd set up in the basement at Christmas time. Some of my earliest & best memories.

Sadly, an interest in model railroading does not always work out so well (NSFW):

 

[AR surround]

7 hours ago, tysontom said:

and you definitely must have a very accomodating and sweet wife, too! 

My wife and I met while skiing...one of my passions.   Second date...dinner.  Third date..."I'd like to introduce you to my pair of AR9's and my train set.  They all come with the deal."

[AR surround]

6 hours ago, genek said:

Are you routing railroad sound effects through the audio system? 

It is possible with some of the equipment.  I can put several receivers around the room and route it to the subwoofer channel on the audio system.  Hearing low frequency effects through the AR9's and AR90's would be interesting indeed.  But I haven't done so as of yet because it would be an additional complication.

[AR surround]

6 hours ago, ar_pro said:

Fantastic layout - absolutely beautiful!

Always loved trains - my father had a great set of Lionel O-Gauge trains that he'd set up in the basement at Christmas time. Some of my earliest & best memories.

Sadly, an interest in model railroading does not always work out so well (NSFW):

 

Geez ar_pro, that was awful!!!

[ar_pro]

4 hours ago, AR surround said:

Geez ar_pro, that was awful!!!

Ha, ha - yeah!

In the final season of The Sopranos, they were dropping bodies left & right.

There's a short video on Trainland, in Lynnbrook, Long Island, where they shot the scene.

 

[genek]

15 hours ago, AR surround said:

It is possible with some of the equipment.  I can put several receivers around the room and route it to the subwoofer channel on the audio system.  Hearing low frequency effects through the AR9's and AR90's would be interesting indeed.  But I haven't done so as of yet because it would be an additional complication.

The real challenge would be figuring out how to sync the sound with the movement of the train/s so it moves between different speakers as the train goes around the track.

[tysontom]

On 1/2/2022 at 12:51 AM, tysontom said:

This is an article I wrote last year about the development of the AR9 loudspeaker, a powerful and no-compromise loudspeaker that was clearly ahead of its time when it was introduced in 1978.  This article is somewhat about the philosophy behind the development and engineering of this speaker, and it speaks to the huge amount of work that was done to create this fine loudspeaker.  Thanks to former AR employees Ken Kantor, James Kates, Lucette Nicoll and others at AR for their help on some matters regarding this fine loudspeaker.  I had hoped to track down many others that were involved in the creation of this speaker, but many are gone now or have moved on to other ventures in life.  I would be interested in any reaction to this article -- pro or con!  Thanks for reading it.

Tom Tyson

 

Here is the on-line version published in Audioholics: Revisiting the Acoustic Research AR9 - Audioholics.url

[tysontom]

1 minute ago, tysontom said:

Here is the on-line version published in Audioholics: Revisiting the Acoustic Research AR9 - Audioholics.url

Let's try that again: https://www.audioholics.com/editorials/acoustic-research-ar9

[Aadams]

Outstanding!!  Based on my memory, it seems you have expanded the information content during the final buffing period.  Thanks.

 

 

[AR surround]

Wonderful article, Tom.   I read it before I noticed that you were the author.   My only complaint is that you talk about the AR9's in the past tense.   My AR9's have been in my "present" since August 1978.  

A family member has my first pair of AR speakers, the AR5's.  Another relative has a pair of AR18's...possibly the most remarkable AR product ever made in light of it's diminutive size.

[tysontom]

7 hours ago, Aadams said:

Outstanding!!  Based on my memory, it seems you have expanded the information content during the final buffing period.  Thanks.

 

 

Thank you!  I crammed a lot of information into that article, so it definitely gets into the weeds.  AR people like this, however, so it's a good thing.

[tysontom]

5 hours ago, AR surround said:

Wonderful article, Tom.   I read it before I noticed that you were the author.   My only complaint is that you talk about the AR9's in the past tense.   My AR9's have been in my "present" since August 1978.  

A family member has my first pair of AR speakers, the AR5's.  Another relative has a pair of AR18's...possibly the most remarkable AR product ever made in light of it's diminutive size.

You're right!  It's really the present tense for many people.  I even have a pair of 9s that I haven't completed restoring, so I'm in that group as well.  AR's efforts with these tower speakers, especially the AR9 and AR90, was well spent!  There were a lot of reviewers over time who considered the AR18s to be great little speakers; I also think the earliest AR-6s were this way, too.   

[Aadams]

On 1/25/2023 at 3:56 PM, tysontom said:

AR's efforts with these tower speakers, especially the AR9 and AR90, was well spent! 

tysontom

Your statement below, buried in another thread, is quite germane to this AR9 thread:

....when I had both LSTs together, I wired them in parallel and used the 2205 for a period of time, but this amp would enter into the "Power Guard" limited output on frequent occasions.  With stacked LSTs, the bass response had more impact, of course, due to the additive effect of mutual-radiation impedance with the woofers fairly close together.  This is somewhat akin to the "stacked-Advent" effect that was so widely admired years ago, despite the Advent's other shortcomings.  Anyway, I subsequently traded the 2205 amp for a new MC-2500, which I kept for several years.  It worked perfectly and provided all the power I needed.  I never drove the LSTs needlessly hard, but on some music with wide dynamic range, even the 2500 would light-up the Power Guard soft-clipping lights.  The sound was about as dynamic as anything I've ever had either before or since!  The AR9s had a wider dynamic range with better clarity, but the LSTs had the most spacious, life-like sound on certain music due to the extremely wide dispersion. "

Aadams

[ar_pro]

1 hour ago, Aadams said:

The AR9s had a wider dynamic range with better clarity, but the LSTs had the most spacious, life-like sound on certain music due to the extremely wide dispersion. "

Aadams

Yes, I think this is very much true.

It's undeniable that the Classic and Vertical AR systems share a commonality of "voicing", for lack of a better term - the same dominant gene that's present in the company's most successful and admirable systems seems to stay true, even when AR's engineering goal pivoted from wide dispersion in the far field to optimal imaging with a more predictable low frequency characteristic.

I'm a little old fashioned at this point, having a preference for the LST's approach, as opposed to the more "accurate" one of the AR-9, and it's offspring.

Interestingly, my very first pair of AR-9 systems was driven by a brand new Mac MC2205 amplifier, and it seemed a perfect match - at that time, it was the best reproduction that I'd ever heard, and going forward, seemed to be what the kids are now referring to as an "endgame system".

But 40 years later, I might be more inclined to have a pair of mint-condition LST systems over the mighty AR-9, if only because of its unmatched dispersion in a good-sized room. And in 2023, the AR-9's awesome low frequency response has finally been equaled - sophisticated powered subwoofers are more than capable, especially with room correction software running, should the LST's own LF output be found lacking (not likely).

 

[AR surround]

44 minutes ago, ar_pro said:

But 40 years later, I might be more inclined to have a pair of mint-condition LST systems over the mighty AR-9, if only because of its unmatched dispersion in a good-sized room.

I wish people would at least try pulling the AR9's out into the room despite the "as designed" position against the long wall.  I have found the soundstage of the 9's to be much larger and more satisfying when pulled out into the room.   They were positioned as such when I auditioned them back in 1978.   As for the alleged loss of bass response, I really haven't noticed a significant reduction.

Of course, it would be interesting try the same away-from-the-walls positioning with the LSTs.

[frankmarsi]

On 1/30/2023 at 4:22 PM, ar_pro said:

Yes, I think this is very much true.

It's undeniable that the Classic and Vertical AR systems share a commonality of "voicing", for lack of a better term - the same dominant gene that's present in the company's most successful and admirable systems seems to stay true, even when AR's engineering goal pivoted from wide dispersion in the far field to optimal imaging with a more predictable low frequency characteristic.

I'm a little old fashioned at this point, having a preference for the LST's approach, as opposed to the more "accurate" one of the AR-9, and it's offspring.

Interestingly, my very first pair of AR-9 systems was driven by a brand new Mac MC2205 amplifier, and it seemed a perfect match - at that time, it was the best reproduction that I'd ever heard, and going forward, seemed to be what the kids are now referring to as an "endgame system".

But 40 years later, I might be more inclined to have a pair of mint-condition LST systems over the mighty AR-9, if only because of its unmatched dispersion in a good-sized room. And in 2023, the AR-9's awesome low frequency response has finally been equaled - sophisticated powered subwoofers are more than capable, especially with room correction software running, should the LST's own LF output be found lacking (not likely).

 

 

""sophisticated powered subwoofers are more than capable, especially with room correction software running, should the LST's own LF output be found lacking (not likely).""

 

Righty-Oh........

Though, I've heard what a good powered 'sub' can do and, was impressed, I'm leaving myself open to the next flight of 'hi-fi' spending fantasy should it arise. However, I'd probably tire of it quickly after spending fifty-two,  that's correct, 52 years of spending a great deal of my listening life to what real and accurate bass really is by intensely listening to AR's for that long, so......

In actuality, accurate bass is what I craved as a electric-bass player in the late 1960's and through years of touring countless hi-fi stores enjoying countless auditions, AR speakers always prevailed as being the most real and plentiful when present in a recording. 'Subs' might be for those late to the 'GOLDEN-AGE' of Hi-Fi.  For musical reproduction in a high-quality system, such additional bass may be necessary. Surely from what I see and read in the 'HIGH-END' publications, many of these smaller high-end speakers can and do benefit from a sub. Then again, I've always used a 12 inch woofer for serious listening.

Subwoofers certainly add more dimension to movies but, that's an exaggerated form of low-frequency information for explosions and earthquakes, -something I don't hear regularly in daily life or music and would rather not to begin with.

@ AR surround ""Of course, it would be interesting try the same away-from-the-walls positioning with the LSTs.""

Dear Model Rail-Roader,*  AR-LST were not made for such use, instead designed for strictly against the front wall. That demand may have also steered some buyers away from purchasing them initially.

I've stupidly tried that and even mentioned it in a post on this forum as the sound quality being tremendously diminished and sounding like crap. In fact, there was nothing to like about them in that position. AR-LST's require the 'front-wall' much like a folded horn enclosures require their folded horn construction to assist their bass. Or like a port on ported-designs.

 My stacked  four AR-LST's are approximately 4 inches away from the front-wall and I installed corner bass-traps on each side above the speakers in the ceiling corners.   Being against the front-walls also supports the side mounted drivers both mids and highs.

When I used my AR-3a's (1971-1983)** I always had them mounted on a wall for the book-shelve type of sound support. In 1978 in a new to me room of 35 X 25 X 12 and had them mounted on floor stands against the left and right hand walls contrary to what's normally recommended but, the room was so voluminous it magnified their output. And, although they sounded magnificent, especially with 400 WPC and Micro-Statics on top, the side walls on their sides is what supported the bass-response in this case.  And, irrespective of them both standing mid-room along the long dimension, bass was substantial and without deficit.

* former model rail-roader though not to the same extent.

** Then purchased the large Advent covered in vinyl, still have them re-foamed in 1997.

FM
 

 

 

 

 

2.5

[giovanni56]

On 28/11/2022 at 03:14, tysontom said:

Ecco di nuovo l'articolo....

Revisiting-the-Acoustic-Research-AR9_Tom Tyson.pdf 1,41MB · 54 download

Thank you Tom, many compliments, wonderful article, thank you again.