Curiouser and curioser (AR-3a trim)

[genek]

There are two empty AR-3a cabinets on eBay right now. Inexpensive but somewhat banged up. What's interesting is a photo of the front face trim on one of them. My 3a's are from about the same period, based on their plywood back panels, but from my refurb project of a few years back I'm fairly sure that their face frames are solid wood. This one clearly is not.

 

[JeffS]

genek,

I think that the veneer on these cabinets was probably applied by the owner. If you look at the pictures for the other cabinet, you'll see that the finish tag says "unfinished pine".

 

[genek]

And they put veneer on the only piece of solid wood on the cabinet. I guess that explains why the price is low.

[RoyC]

I have seen at least a dozen of these AR-3a cabinets working with Vintage_AR over the years. They are "original" in every way and all have had low serial numbers into the teens.

Roy

[genek]

If they had only been stained or painted I might have gone for them at that price just to have a new refinishing project to work on during this stay at home period. But removing someone else's bad veneering is way too annoying a chore.

[RoyC]

15 minutes ago, genek said:

If they had only been stained or painted I might have gone for them at that price just to have a new refinishing project to work on during this stay at home period. But removing someone else's bad veneering is way too annoying a chore.

Just to clarify,  the cabinets I referred to above were not veneered by a third party. They were all original untouched AR cabinets. A clue is that none of these cabinets show any evidence of the typical solid wood trim piece under the veneer. With that said,  I agree, the cabinets without the solid wood trim piece are much less desirable. Perhaps AR was considering eliminating the solid trim as was done with the AR-2 series cabinets. Who knows, but the specimens I have seen were not modified cabinets.

Roy

[lance G]

Is it worth considering that the, what is now "tired", veneer will have preserved the original cabinet ?

It may (ever the optomist !) be pristine underneath ?

Or of course the veneer may have been applied after the surface was subject to some degree of damage, to hide a multitude of sins !

I built a pair of speakers with KEF drivers some 40 years ago and veneered them myself with, to my mind,  great success. I know the wood underneath will be pristine, shame it's only MDF !

 

[genek]

Pine is a soft wood, so if these had not been finished prior to veneering, the glue used to attach the veneer would be deep into the fibers. It would potentially weaken the adhesion of any new surface finish and would make a penetrating finish an even worse prospect.

It might actually be easier to refinish these if there was a coat of varnish under the veneer!

[JKent]

I was considering these. I have bought from the seller before and he's about a 45 minute drive. But I see there's bidding started on one. Maybe if they were offered as a pair. I did send him an inquiry and am waiting to hear back.

I just acquired a pair of AR-11Bs but one cabinet is beyond repair. Thought I could build a pair of 3a's. We'll see.....

[lance G]

Looking at the pictures, by golly they knew how to make things in those days. I wonder how much it would cost to just buy the wood and then make something to that basic standard of construction in this day and age ?

Literally solid basis for a speaker project, if only to play with non original drivers and experimental crossover/s ? If they were on my doorstep I would consider them at the starting price/s, just to "play with". But then I am a sucker for rescuing old stuff and I like working with wood. Being what they are I suspect they will always have some sort of future re-sale value as time moves on ? Can't see if the serial numbers are close or not, but labels are present ?

I had better say that I have no allegiance or relationship with the item/s or seller ! I am in the U.K.

And if anyone on here buys them, please don't hold me to account ! My opinions are my own, and I sometimes seriously wonder if I should keep them to myself !

 

[genek]

1 hour ago, JKent said:

I just acquired a pair of AR-11Bs but one cabinet is beyond repair. Thought I could build a pair of 3a's. We'll see.....

I have a pair of AR-11 cabinets I bought a couple of years ago, and all the necessary drivers and  11b crossovers. So I could assemble a pair of AR-11b. Except, I've never cared much for the ADD styling. So I started playing with the idea of restyling them into 3a-style cabinets.  I've filled in those dust-catching grooves around the faces with strips of walnut, and have measured out the necessary walnut trim to put face frames on them, but things got busy so they're just sitting in a closet.

[genek]

2 hours ago, RoyC said:

Just to clarify,  the cabinets I referred to above were not veneered by a third party.

Did they have labels on the back that said, "Unfinished Pine?" I would be very confused if I unpacked a new pair of walnut AR speakers and saw that.

[RoyC]

3 hours ago, genek said:

Did they have labels on the back that said, "Unfinished Pine?" I would be very confused if I unpacked a new pair of walnut AR speakers and saw that.

Hi Gene,

No. The ones I saw were "walnut", veneered to the front edge with no solid trim under it.

Roy

[genek]

So that definitely makes this pair someone's home project then.

[lakecat]

I originally saw that label too and got real interested. I have been looking for a mate to my pine 3a for a long time. I really looked at pics and was disappointed. I asked the seller about them..being walnut but a pine label... and he knew nothing about them.  Said they were picked up at an estate sale. 

Guess I will wait for a pine with a solid front on it.....as this one looks a mess.

[genek]

There might actually be a solid birch face from under all that gunk where the veneer has peeled off; it's just impossible to tell from the one photo. But if you're looking for a mate for an unfinished pine speaker, this is definitely not a viable candidate, because even if you could peel the veneer off, you would never be able to make it look like unfinished pine again.

[JKent]

Gene,

Those 11 cabinets look nice!

I'm going to pass on the 3a cabs. The seller won't end the auction and sell as a pair, and they're kinda beat. Will have to keep watching. 

[genek]

Thanks. Still have to make the moldings for the face frames, which is on indefinite hold until I can get out and shop for lumber. Once those are on, the cabs will get a light stain to even out variations in wood and then a final finish. Once they're assembled, the only clue to the restyling should be the badges. Have several options for those.

[JKent]

My plan, had it worked out, was to build a pair of AR-3a Limiteds https://community.classicspeakerpages.net/topic/11524-what-version-do-i-have/?tab=comments#comment-129226 You might want to consider that.

If I ever find good cabinets that's still the plan.

 

[lakecat]

17 hours ago, genek said:

There might actually be a solid birch face from under all that gunk where the veneer has peeled off; it's just impossible to tell from the one photo. But if you're looking for a mate for an unfinished pine speaker, this is definitely not a viable candidate, because even if you could peel the veneer off, you would never be able to make it look like unfinished pine again.

Never say never....:) I just don't trust this cabinet. If it was given to me....yea, I would accept the challenge but not gonna buy junk. The seller is no help so screw it. Just wish I could find a mate to the one I have. Besides....

I got like three bathrooms and a kitchen lined up to customize....so no time anyway. So much for retirement!...lol.

[genek]

1 hour ago, JKent said:

My plan, had it worked out, was to build a pair of AR-3a Limiteds https://community.classicspeakerpages.net/topic/11524-what-version-do-i-have/?tab=comments#comment-129226 You might want to consider that.

If I ever find good cabinets that's still the plan.

 

Not sure how I feel about making a 3a Limited vs AR-11. Might be more attractive if I didn't already have a pair of 3a's.

[RoyC]

1 hour ago, genek said:

Not sure how I feel about making a 3a Limited vs AR-11. Might be more attractive if I didn't already have a pair of 3a's.

The AR-11 and 3a Limited have essentially the same drivers, with the crossover differences having more to do with accommodating switches versus variable controls (L-pads) than anything else. In fact, I have converted a number of 11's (and original 3a's in the absence of original 3a tweeters) to 3a Limiteds over the years with excellent results. I easily prefer the Limited over the 11, even when housed in the 11 cabinet. The only advantage to the 11 is the more durable switch arrangement.

Roy