Seeking reviews on Roy C modded Acoustic Research model 2ax

[Jim Pearce]

Do any of you know where I can find some reviews on the Roy C mod?

[Aadams]

What mod?  Tweeter?

29 minutes ago, Jim Pearce said:

Do any of you know where I can find some reviews on the Roy C mod?

 

[Jim Pearce]

Yes, mainly.

I have a pair that have his recommended Hi-Vi tweeter replacement as well as the rest, the coils and the caps.

[Aadams]

You won't find it as a "Roy C" mod. 

Try this

HiVi Q1R site:classicspeakerpages.net

305 hits.

 

 

 

 

[Jim Pearce]

Okay, thank you. I am looking for people that know these changed speakers that are outside of the classic speaker pages community.

Those would be rare birds.

[Amplifierz]

Yeah indeed those will be rare birds. I think people that aren't aware of the Hivi Mod probably just throw away the speakers with the broken tweeters or randomly screw in a tweeter they found at the shop. 

[Jim Pearce]

I would welcome any one's opinion on this.

[Aadams]

What specifically do you want to know?

[RoyC]

5 hours ago, Jim Pearce said:

Okay, thank you. I am looking for people that know these changed speakers that are outside of the classic speaker pages community.

Those would be rare birds.

What does "yes, mainly" mean? What exactly is a "Roy C modded" AR speaker? Whatever it is, I'm not sure how you expect to acquire an "outside" opinion from within the forum.

Roy

[Jim Pearce]

I simply want to know what other people's opinions are regarding the sound of the speakers after they have done what you have suggested.

I am mainly interested in what people think the sound is like compared to other speakers, even new technology.

I guess I am looking for newcomers to classic speaker pages that have heard the speakers as rebuilt with your mods.

I am sure your recommendations on modifications are very popular because the tweeters are so hard to come by.

We havetalked about this before and I mentioned that the mid-ranges are shouting.

I'm wondering if anyone agrees and if they suspect that that characteristic indicates something is wrong as you mentioned.

I am not sure if you recommended that the attenuators be part of the circuitry so that output on the midranges and tweeters can be adjusted.

[Jim Pearce]

My hearing is very poor. I have had long-term exposure to backpack blowers and front row seats with very loud guitars for a very long time.

Right now I am running

ADS 1290s and wonder what people think about my 2axs compared to the 1290s.

I'm driving everything with a Sansui 8080 but heavy options of a Yamaha ax 900 as well as a Paras

sound RCA 1206.

So I guess I'm asking people what they think of what configuration might be the best quote unquote.

Maybe I should try the acoustic research stacked like some people do with the Advents.

Please avoid feedback along the lines of whatever sounds best.

[JKent]

1 hour ago, Jim Pearce said:

I am not sure if you recommended that the attenuators be part of the circuitry so that output on the midranges and tweeters can be adjusted.

Yes. Absolutely. And if the pots are shot, L-pads with the necessary resistors. Attenuators are necessary to, well, attenuate. So if you think your mids are shouting and you have bypassed the pots, that may be the problem.

The Hi-Vi tweeters are not so much a "mod" as they are an inexpensive virtual drop-in replacement for worn-out originals. I use them and they work very well. For years there was virtually no alternative. But for people who want complete authenticity Chris and Roy are now refurbishing dead AR originals.

The overall sound of the speakers is affected only minimally by the tweeters and if your "hearing is very poor" as you say, you will never hear any difference between properly functioning original tweeters and properly installed Hi-Vis.

[RoyC]

1 hour ago, Jim Pearce said:

My hearing is very poor. I have had long-term exposure to backpack blowers and front row seats with very loud guitars for a very long time.

Right now I am running

ADS 1290s and wonder what people think about my 2axs compared to the 1290s.

I'm driving everything with a Sansui 8080 but heavy options of a Yamaha ax 900 as well as a Paras

sound RCA 1206.

So I guess I'm asking people what they think of what configuration might be the best quote unquote.

Maybe I should try the acoustic research stacked like some people do with the Advents.

Please avoid feedback along the lines of whatever sounds best.

Jim,

The ADS 1290 is a larger and more sophisticated speaker system than the AR-2ax. I doubt anyone (myself included) familiar with both of these speaker systems would suggest the 2ax over the 1290 for many reasons related to sound...and no 2ax tweeter of any kind is likely to change that general opinion. It may be helpful to know what you don't like about the 1290 to determine what you are hoping the 2ax could improve for you. In any case, the "attenuators" are absolutely critical, especially if you are trying to calm down the midrange frequencies.

I see Kent posted while I was responding. What he said as well.

Roy

[Jim Pearce]

Okay, now we are getting to the meat of it.

I understand that the black bullet tweeter is considered a super tweeter and affects only the ultra-high ranges.

I've been sometime ago told by an audiologist that in my left ear I cannot hear anything over 14,000 cycles and by this time I'm pretty sure that has fallen substantially and my right ear is probably in that range...or less.

Regarding the need for a super tweeter, I ascribe to the philosophy and its validity of a thing known as psychoacoustics, a frequency range that is perceived but not heard. I think the human brain is capable of doing and knowing far more than we will ever know...off topic, but that is why I am so captivated by the Heil tweeter and having these tweeters restored.

Roy, I tried to send you a photo of the internals to determine if the pots are properly wired but apparently you could not tell because of the poor quality of the photo or maybe it was due to the email issue I am having. I understandhat having them functioning is absolutely critical, on a number of levels including adjustments for placement of the loudspeaker.

I realize there's no comparison between these and the 1290s, I guess my post was in a way and oblique way to get some opinions on those. So thank you for that, thank you for the opinions.

I guess I could say that I am wanting to hear the 2ax in a state resembling its original because I want to know what all the hubbub is about. although they were working at one point I've only been able to listen to them through a low-power 20w receiver. 

Based on that I may work to get some 3as.

The 1290 domes need to be reworked as well so truth be told I am not even hearing them in their as intended state.

it seems that what I am getting from you guys is that if I had to make a choice between the two loudspeakers the 1290s would be the ones to pick, in general terms.

Maybe I should get rid of these three pairs of acoustic research loudspeakers.

Two pair of the three quarter inch bullet tweeters as well as a pair of orange dome Ben Hecht United Speaker domes that have been used in some McIntosh loudspeakers have been taken to Vietnam by a friend of mine that went to engineering school for loudspeakers at age 14, 

I can hardly wait to get those JCPenney MCS giants up and running!

You can see various posts that I've made on them audiokarma, they are the 8228.

Probably will get lots of TL DNRs...so what say yous?

That is, by the way, a south side of Chicago soft s.

 

 

 

[Aadams]

Do you have pots or lpads in the 2ax in question?  If lpads did you install? If you can’t post photos helping you will be difficult. 

[Jim Pearce]

Yes, I understand that. I'm working on it.

at one point I pulled a woofer and pushed some of the stuffing a side and shot some pics but I don't think they came out very well or I could not send them by email or something happened I'm not sure what

if you want to meet my friend from Vietnam you can see him on Facebook his name is Chuong Thai.

I have told him about our discussions here and have asked and been granted permission to spread his name around.

[Aadams]

And do you have pots or lpads.........?

[Jim Pearce]

On 2/27/2020 at 7:46 PM, RoyC said:

What does "yes, mainly" mean? What exactly is a "Roy C modded" AR speaker? Whatever it is, I'm not sure how you expect to acquire an "outside" opinion from within the forum.

Roy

I'm really looking for anyone's opinion on this, an opinion on how the sound compares with the original . Especially yours, Roy.

I'm sure that you took great pains and spent many, many hours to work up a modification that would as best as possible approximate the original sound. I'm wondering where you think your strengths and weaknesses are in your final application.

I was looking around on some other sites and could not find anything about this customized speaker configuration.

I thought maybe someone could point me in the right direction where I can get more opinions beyond what's available here.

Maybe AK.

 

I'll check there for Hi-Vi, etc.

 

Not to intentionally duplicate the question, but I'm wondering if anyone saw the cloth woofers on eBay?

They seem to be okay and I snap them up as quickly as I saw them for less than $150 delivered.

I'm wondering what they're likely to need beyond gooping.

[genek]

Carl and I played around with some alternative tweeters a few years ago, including the HiVis and an AR dome tweeter from the AR-218v, both with inductor mods to the crossovers. In a small room where the listener position is relatively fixed and on-axis, the sound is virtually indistinguishable from the original AR-3a tweeter. In a large room where the sound has more space to bounce off surfaces, the sound lacks some of the "airy" quality that classic ARs with dome tweeters were known for, and if you move around the room that awesome tendency that classic ARs with dome tweeters had to maintain the same sound everywhere in the room is lessened or lost.

As for what an "outside review" would be, since these mods are intended to replicate the original classic AR sound as closely as possible, my guess is that most reviews from outside the classic speaker community would be similar to those that original speakers get: that compared to a modern "flat" speaker they have depressed highs.

[Giorgio AR]

Good Genek, you gave a great answer to Jim Pearce! You made it clear that the Hi-Vi tweeter behaves the same or almost frontally to the AR3a tweeter, though:

2 hours ago, genek said:

classic ARs with dome tweeters had to maintain the same sound everywhere in the room is lessened or lost.

But above all you have perfectly defined the behavior of the AR3a tweeter which also defines the Acoustic Research Sound with the remaining midrange and woofer.

Giorgio

 

[Aadams]

7 hours ago, genek said:

that compared to a modern "flat" speaker they have depressed highs.

Compared to an AR9,AR98Lsi and modern two ways, an AR 3a or 5 with properly working mids, rebuilt tweeters and lpads does not exhibit depressed highs as long as the listening space has moderately reflective walls, floors and ceilings.  There is a perceivable on-axis difference but the ear must be very near to whatever is being compared and the speakers volume and frequency equalized.  There is no practical difference.

I agree with Giorgio.  The only tweeter that maintains the Classic power response beyond 5k is the original tweeter.  That said, the inexpensive HiVi, correctly installed, provides such a startling  improvement over a moribund or dead original tweeter that most listeners will tend to be satisfied and have no interest in hearing the original Villchur/Allison sound.

Adams