barryjo Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 I recently acquired a pair of AR3 speakers. The high frequency speakers on both are bad, i.e. no sound at all as far as I can tell. Should I attempt to repair and replace the tweeters or just junk the speakers? What would be the cost of a set of mid and high freq speakers for the AR3 and where would I get them. Perhaps I should just send them to a speaker repair facility. Suggestions??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nefertem Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 Hi i would buy new replacement tweeters from parts express Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryjo Posted August 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 11 minutes ago, nefertem said: Hi i would buy new replacement tweeters from parts express Could you give me a link to "parts express" please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryjo Posted August 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 I thjink I found the parts express page. Does anyone know what I should buy for midrange and tweeters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 Can you post pictures? It might be useful for the group to see the condition of the drivers and cabinets, and whether it looks like any previous work was done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryjo Posted August 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 Here are some pics. I noticed that there are some cracks around the woofer center cone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 Whoa....slow down a bit - - this evaluation process may take you a while before figuring out how best to proceed. And welcome to the forum, you've come to the right place for friendly, helpful, experienced advice. The AR-3 is among the most sought-after vintage speaker models, and yours appear to be in great condition. The first thing to do will be to determine whether the high and mid drivers are in fact functional or, as you imply, they might be "bad". It is not at all uncommon for 50 year-old loudspeakers like these to have seriously diminished high frequency output, and the problem just might be with the aged internal electrical components. Other members who have experience with this model will help you out with specific guidance, and the diagnosis will probably require some degree of dis-assembly. To answer your question: yes, you should attempt to repair these, and there is absolutely no reason to ever consider "junking" them. Authentic replacement parts may be difficult to locate and/or be expensive, but there is not yet sufficient information to know what you might need. Be patient and wait for more advice to roll in - - it is very premature to be shopping for replacement drivers before you understand the full nature of any performance issues. With a proper investment of some time, some expense, and a good deal of learning, you could eventually have yourself a fine set of iconic classic speakers to enjoy for decades to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidR Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 I think Chris1This1 on this site can repair them or has had luck repairing them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnivore Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 Have you downloaded the PDF document from the post pinned to the top of this forum, 'Restoring the AR-3a'? That's a fantastic resource that will help you step by step with the restoration -- you should definitely read it. And yeah, those speakers appear to be in nice original condition, great candidates for a restore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryjo Posted August 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 OK, I'm going to repair them. I have a copy of the repair guide that this group has made. It is very good. So now I have a technical question. The AR3s were acoustic suspension speakers, so they say. Is there something magic about the woofer, and other components that made this speaker so good?, or is it because it uses a totally enclosed box, without any port, and the box is stuffed with sound absorbing material. I have heard that this speaker takes a lot of power to drive it. Is this because there is no port? Does this mean I will eventually need a fairly high power mid range and tweeter? I do have knowledge of electrical components. I wonder what has gone bad on both of these speakers? I guess the pots could have opened up or maybe the caps. I will have to investigate. It is really wonderful that this forum is read and responded to. I am looking forward to my project, with help and advice of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, Carnivore said: 'Restoring the AR-3a'? That's a fantastic resource...... -- you should definitely read it. Carnivore gives the best early advice you're going to receive - - start with some reading and you will soon understand a whole lot more about your new speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt45 Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 This is going to be an interesting repair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakecat Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 Quote These AR3's may be a little difficult for a person that knows little to repair on their own. Not being mean but they look to be nice and deserve to be fixed correctly. You can't listen to five or ten different people on here to fix them. One thing you can do is gently scrap away the black paint from your tweeter and mid leads on speaker in front. Take one of your speaker wires from amp or receiver, turn on unit and turn volume up slightly, and touch your tweeter leads on front with speaker wire to test tweeter to see if it works that way. Then do mid speaker the same way. If you hear sound from the drivers, then it is the potentiometers on back are in need of replacing or cleaning. The tweeters are usually good but mids are known to fail so this test will tell you what needs done next. Where do you live? If you were close to me, I would just have you bring then over. Roy and RaRa are two well known members as well as Kent that will give expert advice.....but they may need more work than you could probably handle. Also....that rubber diffuser ring on woofer is fine. It has cracks from age but doesn't hurt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 Welcome Barryjo I'll echo ra.ra's sage advice: "slow down a bit." The AR-3s are excellent speakers and in unmolested condition they can fetch big bucks. Do NOT replace any drivers unless you are certain they are bad and then use only original AR drivers (not something from Parts Express.) Yes--tell us where you are and there may be a member nearby who can help. I can tell you that there are 2 very basic things that can go bad and make it seem like your tweeters or mids are trashed: The level controls (aka "pots" or potentiometers) and the capacitors ("caps"). You will read in the AR-3a restoration guide that the caps are old and probably out of spec and the pots WILL be corroded and can prevent sound coming from the mids and tweets. One quick check may be to twist the level control knobs back and forth several times to try to scrape off some corrosion. Then adjust slowly and see if you find a good spot. DO NOT remove the tweets or mids. They are absurdly heavy with ridiculously thin and fragile wire "tinsel" leads. any internal work can be accomplished by pulling the woofer and working through that hole. Lakecat suggested "One thing you can do is gently scrap away the black paint from your tweeter and mid leads on speaker in front. Take one of your speaker wires from amp or receiver, turn on unit and turn volume up slightly, and touch your tweeter leads on front with speaker wire to test tweeter to see if it works that way." I would just suggest that you not touch the leads themselves--instead you can scrape the paint off those 3 "buttons" tat the leads go to. Read. Study. Ask questions. Go slowly. It will be worth the time and effort. -Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupidhead Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 good luck with this set and congrats. Go slow, ask for guidance and you will get it. unlikely you need any replacement drivers and if so my approach would be OEM as opposed to replacements from anywhere. Be careful and know that when the tweeter is being removed from baffle it is quite heavy. Pots will need cleaning and with some simple evaluations your path will be clear. Take pics, go slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryjo Posted August 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 Since both speakers act the same, i.e. no high freq sound I gather the best thing to do is to remove the woofers, then the stuffing, then troubleshoot the pots and capacitors. Moving the pots does not cause any sound or scratching at all. I do see that there are very small wires connecting the tweeter and midrange voice coils to the terminals on the front panel. Using my oscilloscope, I should be able to connect my amplifier to the speakers and then look for a signal on those fine wires. That should tell me a lot. Hey, I really appreciate all of the good advice I am getting here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted August 18, 2017 Report Share Posted August 18, 2017 14 minutes ago, barryjo said: Since both speakers act the same, i.e. no high freq sound I gather the best thing to do is to remove the woofers, then the stuffing, then troubleshoot the pots and capacitors. Moving the pots does not cause any sound or scratching at all. I do see that there are very small wires connecting the tweeter and midrange voice coils to the terminals on the front panel. Using my oscilloscope, I should be able to connect my amplifier to the speakers and then look for a signal on those fine wires. That should tell me a lot. Perfect! Keep us posted. -Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onplane Posted August 19, 2017 Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 16 hours ago, barryjo said: Since both speakers act the same, i.e. no high freq sound I gather the best thing to do is to remove the woofers, then the stuffing, then troubleshoot the pots and capacitors. Moving the pots does not cause any sound or scratching at all. I do see that there are very small wires connecting the tweeter and midrange voice coils to the terminals on the front panel. Using my oscilloscope, I should be able to connect my amplifier to the speakers and then look for a signal on those fine wires. That should tell me a lot. Hey, I really appreciate all of the good advice I am getting here. With your scope you can see whether any voltage is getting to the tweeters. Now bear in mind that there isn't much music in these ultra high frequencies. You must look for tracks full of cymbals like a jazz trio. Also to even hear working AR tweeters requires a toilet paper tube over the tweeter at one end and near your ear at the other end. If you hear anything, they are working. Those pots are notorious for corroding and significantly reducing voltage. I by-passed mine nine years ago and they haven't given me any problems since. Regards, Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryjo Posted August 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 I am going to use my computer and amplifier as a signal generator. I can go to the Internet and enter "online tone generator" and get a program that allows me to make tones of different frequency. I have the computer output routed to my amplifier. I think I can then carefully put the speaker output directly across the tweeter terminals to see if I can hear the high frequency tone. I will do this at low level of course to make sure I don't damage anything. I hope this works. I see that I can get tot e tweeter and mid range terminals easily using the terminals on the front panel of the speakers with the grill removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onplane Posted August 19, 2017 Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 9 hours ago, barryjo said: I am going to use my computer and amplifier as a signal generator. I can go to the Internet and enter "online tone generator" and get a program that allows me to make tones of different frequency. I have the computer output routed to my amplifier. I think I can then carefully put the speaker output directly across the tweeter terminals to see if I can hear the high frequency tone. I will do this at low level of course to make sure I don't damage anything. I hope this works. I see that I can get tot e tweeter and mid range terminals easily using the terminals on the front panel of the speakers with the grill removed. There is no need to connect direct to the tweeters. Just connect your amp to the normal speaker terminals. Those high frequencies should be passed directly to the tweeters. Also be very careful of those wires on the front. They are very delicate and some would say brittle. Also do NOT apply any significant voltage to the tweeters. You will fry them. You should start at 1000Hz and make certain that you are not over driving. Once you can get a modest sound out of the mids at 1000, then you can try 7000Hz and put your scope across the tweeter wires very carefully. If you can't see anything on the scope, you know no voltage is getting to the tweeters. Regards, Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryjo Posted August 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 Applying a signal to the normal terminals gives no sound. It might be that the capacitors are open. If I apply a small signal directly to the tweeters I can tell if they are working . I will be careful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robthomp Posted August 20, 2017 Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 Instead of spending time trying to test the tweeters directly, which carries some risk, why not just proceed and replace the caps and clean the pots? You're going to want to do that anyway, and the probability is high that it will restore function. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryjo Posted August 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2017 I think this is a good idea. I guess I will have to remove the woofers and stuffing to get to the caps and pots, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onplane Posted August 23, 2017 Report Share Posted August 23, 2017 On 8/19/2017 at 5:52 PM, barryjo said: Applying a signal to the normal terminals gives no sound. It might be that the capacitors are open. If I apply a small signal directly to the tweeters I can tell if they are working . I will be careful I understand that you get no sound, but the whole idea of using a scope is to see where the failure exists. If you get "no sound", but you can see voltage exists across the tweeter, then the tweeter is most likely dead. On the other hand, if you apply voltage to the main speaker terminals and can not see anything across the tweeter, then this explains why you get no sound. It also means the failure is in those damn pots or not as likely in the cap. Regards, Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryjo Posted August 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2017 After a bit of testing I find that I have one tweeter and one mid range that does not work. What would one of you experts advise me to purchase as replacements. I tend to think I should replace both tweeters and both mid range speakers to make them the same. Searching the web I see one site that advertises OEM tweeters for about $80 and mid range for about $120. I would like to find something a bit less expensive but I want them to work. Surely some of you have found replacements that are reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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