AR turntable

[quebecois59]

Hey all,

I know nothing about AR turntables so I decided to post the question here. What is an XB model worth? It is equipped with an Audio Technica AT 11e cartridge. The add says it is all manual. The guy wants 150$ for it. It is located roughly one hour from my place.

I have lots of classical music long plays in good shape in my basement so I would have a use for a second table. I already have a good Pionneer turntable in the living room but I can't hear the music from down here when I put a LP up there.

Thanks

Francois

[xmas111]

Hi Francois,

I have a few AR XA turntables and think they are one of the best turntables around. They're very simple but sound wonderful...when set up properly.

I'd say $150 for the XB is maybe a little high but not totally out of line.

The only difference between the XA and the XB is the XB has an "arm lift" other than that they're virtually the same. They're both manual TT's.

Good luck with it if you decide to go for it.

John

[JKent]

I know nothing about AR turntables so I decided to post the question here. What is an XB model worth? It is equipped with an Audio Technica AT 11e cartridge.... The guy wants 150$ for it.

Well, it depends. If the turntable is in good, ready-to-play condition with a good stylus and decent dust cover it's a steal. If it needs work, it's easy to work on and well worth the effort. You'll probably need a new belt--no big deal.

The over-priced Linn Sondek is essentially a copy of the AR XA. If you need another turntable I'd say go for it. If you ever want to mod it there are endless possibilities.

Kent

[ar_pro]

The AR turntable was a great design, and always represented a terrific value.

AR changed the base on the XB, perhaps to give it a more modern appearance, but I have a personal preference for the older style.

Parts are easily available, and the most commonly-needed are the headshell (the threads tend to fail over time), and the tonearm bearing, which not-infrequently goes missing if the arm is removed for any reason.

I'm not certain if replacement platter mats are still a problem, but the AR's platter is smaller than most 'tables, and all of the replacement foam or rubber mats that I've ever seen have hung over the edge.

[ra.ra]

I basically agree with all the comments here, but would just like to add one more observation. The attached brochure suggests that in 1974, both the XA and XB were offered with a "walnut grained" base, but I have only ever seen the XA in real walnut and the XB in simulated walnut vinyl.

[quebecois59]

Well, it depends. If the turntable is in good, ready-to-play condition with a good stylus and decent dust cover it's a steal. If it needs work, it's easy to work on and well worth the effort. You'll probably need a new belt--no big deal.

The over-priced Linn Sondek is essentially a copy of the AR XA. If you need another turntable I'd say go for it. If you ever want to mod it there are endless possibilities.

Kent

Hey Kent

The add doesn't say a word about the stylus. The dust cover is supposed to be in good shape. The table is supposedly usable as is. If I'm lucky, the guy won't sell it before I see him within 10 days.

[quebecois59]

How does a AR XB turntable compares with my Pionneer PL-12D II with a Shure Premier cartridge, in terms of performance?

[Anthropologo]

My AR-XA is about the quietest thing I have heard - it has pushed a Dual 1229, Elac 50H, and Kenwood KD-5100 out the door with only a Stanton 681 cartridge. Only other TT staying is a Denon DP 1000 with Denon 307 arm and Ortofon MC-20 cartridge that I picked up at estate sale for $100, got the AR at another estate sale for a little less than a benjamin.

I had the headshell issue - one channel would cut out after about an hour of play - take headshell off, put it back on, get another hour of play. My cousin also has an AR with same issue - he bought used headshell off ebay and although the nubs where it plugs into tonearm were good, the sockets where the screws secure cartridge to headshell were loose, stripped, not working - he fixed it, but was a pain.

Then we discovered this guy on ebay - patsaudioparts - who sells new headshells that are identical to the old - but they are new - the nubs are great, the connections are better, they just feel more solid. He seems to run them in batches, but the wait is definitely worth it and totally avoids the lottery that is buying a used headshell. So far we have bought 4...and are thinking about a couple of more...

But what really got me looking for, appreciating, and ultimately quite enjoying the AR-XA was a video of Villchur talking about it - google edgar villchur turntable - and look for the youtube video - there is, in fact, a whole series of the man talking about the world of stereo and sound -

[quebecois59]

I also have a Queon QT-50 turntable that was given to me by an old friend. I don't have any clue about this table, it looks like an '80s model but I can't find any information about it on the web. The only things I know is that it was made in Japan and imported in Canada by Queon Imports inc. It sounds horrible for the moment, the cartridge and/or the stylus should probably be replaced, but the table itself seems of good quality.

Any cue about this one?

[quebecois59]

Maybe a few pictures will help some of you to figure out what my Queon looks like or will remember you a similar design of another make.

[ra.ra]

By no means am I any sort of TT expert, but long ago I did own a Pioneer table and now I only own (2) AR-XA's. My former Pioneer was a slightly higher level model than the PL-12D - - - I think maybe a PL-A35 - - - but I always liked my friend's PL-12D better for at least two reasons: the tonearm counterweight was more robust and precise to adjust; and the compact base size was preferable to me as well. In fact, the base size of the 12D is probably very near that of the AR-XA, while also having a super hinged dust cover that the XA never had (this may in fact be my only dislike of the XA). And, referencing my comment in post 5, I do have a strong personal preference for real wood veneer over simulated products, and I cannot remember if the PL-12D had a real wood option. Also, I never understood what that "overhang checker" was all about on the 12D.

If you might enjoy or at least can put up with all-manual-all-the-time operation, the AR-XA can be great fun to own; but if you prefer to have the cueing option and can accept the simulated vinyl base, the AR-XB mentioned in your OP could be a great choice for spinning platters.

[frankmarsi]

[10-4-12

Hey you guys..

I bought my first AR-XA table in 1972 and it really was a major step up from my Garrard Lab-40, their entry-level table, I bought it in '67 and thinking back it was garbage, but it played grooves and I thought it was heaven back in '67.

I was then at that time listening to the greatest hits from John Sebastian and the 'Loving Spoonful' as it was just released and, it served as my test-record. Knock off two years of the cold draft during Nam years for me in the Navy, no stereo stuff for me.

Well short story long that vinyl disk sounded so much better on the AR-Xa, but still there was something missing and there was also something gained. Acoustic-feed back, a strange and new dilemma to me was very disconcerting. This phenom was so ironic as AR said things like that wouldn't happen with this type of suspension. and I believed them as my AR-3a's were earth shakingly pure sounding and proof of AR's reputation. Nonetheless I lived with its problems and loved its looks and simplicity besides. I told all of my friends as I felt as though I had the 'industry-standard' but, would always monitor the bass control on the pre-amp when they listened.

Back since new, I had nothing but problems with acoustic-feedback, why, please don't ask me, I never found out and it was very painful for me. I had tried virtually everything to quell that monster of a problem, but to no avail. I even wrote to "Audio" magazine in '72, they published my questions regarding this problem but, I only received general and not very helpful replies.

Until, I purchased a brand new Tannoy-Micro/Seiki TM-55 Direct Drive turntable in 1974, ( http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=27682 ).

BAM! Suddenly I had accurate sounding concert volume levels and everything else to be desired especially in piano reproduction. Now, suddenly I had no acoustic-feedback nor tone-arm tracking problems and the other related problems as every adjustment was afforded on this table. VTF, VTA, and azimuth, anti-skate were necessary adjustments and certainly welcomed, not to mention a lift/drop lever.

These days, I've learned to rely on two vintage 1972 Technics SL-120 Mk1 (the first SL-1200!), I love them because of their simplicity also. Two, Thorens TD125Mk1 tables play in system number 2, so I have Direct Drive and Belt Driven, I'm pretty satisfied. The Thorens was born off of the AR-xa principal, but far exceeds it in end results. Why the claimed opinion lives on that the Linn 12 is better than the Thorens TD125 is a mystery as they both copied the AR construction and don't really look at that much different under the hood. Apparently there are differences; must be 'black-magic'. I've seen the under-carriage of the AR, Thorens and the Linn tables, but I feel the Thorens is better constructed than the AR or Linn 12. Three-point suspension is popular and I guess Ed Villchur is the mentor and he gave something that was good to every one.

I run four of these darling models sporting vintage S.M.E. tone arms, and I happily play vinyl at loud volumes with no problems. Absent are acoustic-feedback, rumble, inner-track distortion and all of the ugly vinyl things that plague some tables. I must insist though, a strict regiment of vinyl washing is needed for best results if you really love records no matter what kind of table you use.

I love vintage to the ninth-degree as my collection will attest to, but the AR table was only a forecaster of better things to come as it almost broke new ground and others followed. I've read of some other manufacturer's table that was built before the AR, but info is sketchy at best.

My feelings are; it's a good table to look at, its isolation innovations were perhaps ground-breaking and all, but when it comes to realistic listening volumes, it falls far short of its intended mark. I won't even mention the almost insultingly low quality head shell thread design using plastic threads and brass in plastic for the cartridge, who thought of that one, not "Ed" or "Kloss", I'll assume. Wait, I just did mention it.

I've read of a guy who will convert the arm to SME interchangeable type, I saw it my web travels.

I still own my original AR-xa, as I still love it dearly because; to me, was one of my first journeys into "HI-FI"! I remember its shiny platter, the bobbing platter suspension and that simple arm were revelations for me in '72. Its forty year old age/legacy is dust coated now as sits in an unused closet and really hasn't been touched in all these last 38 years. The foam rubber mat still in place as I left it long ago and it must be in a dried-gel-dust state, no doubt, last time I saw it, its plinth surface corroded feeling like sticky fly paper. Yes I do fantasize every once in a while to restore it, but never do, perhaps in the future? I stated it was good for its short time in my possession, and I most certainly reveled in its sound quality, when I kept the volume reasonable at least.

P.S. RoyC and others who may not be concerned in any way, I'm in the process of relocating the 'LSTs', will be in touch soon, I hope. That is if I don't pull my back out?

"mov'in to the country, gonna eat a lot of speakers",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[genek]

Back in the heyday of vinyl there used to be a school of thought among some high enders that dustcovers, whether open or closed, introduced feedback and resonance paths that affected playback. I never had the kind of equipment or the golden ears that would have been necessary to form my own opnion on that, but broadcast tables of the era never came with hard covers. When not in use they were just protected with folding soft covers.

[quebecois59]

By no means am I any sort of TT expert, but long ago I did own a Pioneer table and now I only own (2) AR-XA's. My former Pioneer was a slightly higher level model than the PL-12D - - - I think maybe a PL-A35 - - - but I always liked my friend's PL-12D better for at least two reasons: the tonearm counterweight was more robust and precise to adjust; and the compact base size was preferable to me as well. In fact, the base size of the 12D is probably very near that of the AR-XA, while also having a super hinged dust cover that the XA never had (this may in fact be my only dislike of the XA). And, referencing my comment in post 5, I do have a strong personal preference for real wood veneer over simulated products, and I cannot remember if the PL-12D had a real wood option. Also, I never understood what that "overhang checker" was all about on the 12D.

If you might enjoy or at least can put up with all-manual-all-the-time operation, the AR-XA can be great fun to own; but if you prefer to have the cueing option and can accept the simulated vinyl base, the AR-XB mentioned in your OP could be a great choice for spinning platters.

Actually, my Pionner isn't totally automatic, because it doesn't have the automatic return, but my Queon has it. While typing this , I'M listening at a classical music LP with my Queon TT equipped with the cartridge from my Pionneer. It sounds pretty good actually, the speed is very stable.

Both of my Pionneer and Queon have vinyl bases, so there is no contest between them on this point.

Well, the more I listen to my Queon, the more I consider spending some money on a new cartridge and stylus instead of buying the XB, I don't know. Of course I don't have the XB next to me to compare.

How much for a new combo cartridge-stylus of good quality?

[quebecois59]

By no means am I any sort of TT expert, but long ago I did own a Pioneer table and now I only own (2) AR-XA's. My former Pioneer was a slightly higher level model than the PL-12D - - - I think maybe a PL-A35 - - - but I always liked my friend's PL-12D better for at least two reasons: the tonearm counterweight was more robust and precise to adjust; and the compact base size was preferable to me as well. In fact, the base size of the 12D is probably very near that of the AR-XA, while also having a super hinged dust cover that the XA never had (this may in fact be my only dislike of the XA). And, referencing my comment in post 5, I do have a strong personal preference for real wood veneer over simulated products, and I cannot remember if the PL-12D had a real wood option. Also, I never understood what that "overhang checker" was all about on the 12D.

If you might enjoy or at least can put up with all-manual-all-the-time operation, the AR-XA can be great fun to own; but if you prefer to have the cueing option and can accept the simulated vinyl base, the AR-XB mentioned in your OP could be a great choice for spinning platters.

I think I figured yesterday evening what's the use of this overhang checker. If you look at the top of the cartridge, there are two small bolts going through slots. This set up allows you to adjust the exact position of the cartridge by a few millimiters more or less in and out, on the arm axis. The white line on the overhang checker, when the checker is pulled up, shows you the perfect trajectoire of the stylus. Once you found the right alignment, you just have to screw the bolts in tight and push the checker back in the base of the table.

[xmas111]

quebecois56,

It looks like the stylus in your cartridge is off center....could be a problem.

John

[quebecois59]

quebecois56,

It looks like the stylus in your cartridge is off center....could be a problem.

John

You're right, that's one of the first things I noticed when I pulled it off the arm. It probably is the main reason for the distorsion I hear in the music. Adn it is reasonable to think that the stylus point itself was damaged when the stem was pushed off center.

[dynaco_dan]

Hey all,

I know nothing about AR turntables so I decided to post the question here. What is an XB model worth? It is equipped with an Audio Technica AT 11e cartridge. The add says it is all manual. The guy wants 150$ for it. It is located roughly one hour from my place.

I have lots of classical music long plays in good shape in my basement so I would have a use for a second table. I already have a good Pionneer turntable in the living room but I can't hear the music from down here when I put a LP up there.

Thanks

Francois

Hi there

The cartridge, depending on age and diamond condition, should be ignored in the deal, worn, bent.

The OEM lid is important.

The motor running with no noise and the arm with no wobble or drag is very important.

There has been new motors available here and there for about $85.00 which availability cannot be relied on.

The belts are available at vcr/tv repair shops for about $5.00, not exact size but close enough.

The AR-XA set the standard of affordable, quiet, accurate and reliable operation for which a lot of companies followed, at more cost and complexity of course.

Not perfect, but terrific value.

[quebecois59]

Hi there

The cartridge, depending on age and diamond condition, should be ignored in the deal, worn, bent.

The OEM lid is important.

The motor running with no noise and the arm with no wobble or drag is very important.

There has been new motors available here and there for about $85.00 which availability cannot be relied on.

The belts are available at vcr/tv repair shops for about $5.00, not exact size but close enough.

The AR-XA set the standard of affordable, quiet, accurate and reliable operation for which a lot of companies followed, at more cost and complexity of course.

Not perfect, but terrific value.

Thanks for your asnwer.

Not sure about the lid, is it supposed to have hinges or not?

[JKent]

Not sure about the lid, is it supposed to have hinges or not?

Non

[quebecois59]

The guy at the electronic boutique recognize my Queon table at the first sight! I showed him the cartridge (Shure M91ED) and the stylus and told him the sound is crappy with this combo but correct with another combo I have at home (second table).

He sold me a Normarh elliptical 244DE needle (21$) that is supposed to be a replacement needle for the SH or SH-N-91ED cartridge. The problem is the sound is more crappy and choppy than before. IS this a compatibility problem or do you think the cartridge is to blame?

[JKent]

Then we discovered this guy on ebay - patsaudioparts - who sells new headshells that are identical to the old - but they are new - the nubs are great, the connections are better, they just feel more solid. He seems to run them in batches, but the wait is definitely worth it and totally avoids the lottery that is buying a used headshell. So far we have bought 4...and are thinking about a couple of more...

Thanks for the tip! I just bought the headshell and a tonearm rest. Very nice quality. The shell is pebble grain black, unlike the original tan. Looks nicer and should go well with the truck bed liner I plan to spray on the plinth.

Kent

[Gerry S]

I once wanted to hinge the dust cover but thought better of it. There is insufficient clearance to play the inner grooves of a record with the dust cover on.

The dust cover did induce feedback; it's large flat surface acted like a low frequency microphone.

I think KLH introduced a turntable that was supposed to be everthing the AR was but "better".....better arm, hinged dustcover, etc.