ironlake Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 If all other things remain the same, alnico magnet, same exact cone ( original 3 with damper foam ring) will a change from cloth surround to foam make any difference in the sound of the speaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 If all other things remain the same, alnico magnet, same exact cone ( original 3 with damper foam ring) will a change from cloth surround to foam make any difference in the sound of the speaker.In the past few months I have rebuilt a number of the cloth surround/AR-3 style woofers for "Vintage AR" (in fact, I believe you purchased one of them). I had to use foam surrounds to complete two of them. Woofer testing software showed typical slight variations, indicating any audible differences should be very minor.I should point out that the reason the cloth surrounds were replaced on those woofers is some idiot coated them with a glue or "sealant" of some type, which stiffened them beyond repair. The surrounds were ruined. The irony is that the AR-12 inch cloth surround woofer seldom (if ever) needs "re-sealing".Why do you ask...do you believe you can hear a difference?Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlspeak Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 In the past few months I have rebuilt a number of the cloth surround/AR-3 style woofers for "Vintage AR" (in fact, I believe you purchased one of them). I had to use foam surrounds to complete two of them. Woofer testing software showed typical slight variations, indicating any audible differences should be very minor.I should point out that the reason the cloth surrounds were replaced on those woofers is some idiot coated them with a glue or "sealant" of some type, which stiffened them beyond repair. The surrounds were ruined. The irony is that the AR-12 inch cloth surround woofer seldom (if ever) needs "re-sealing".Why do you ask...do you believe you can hear a difference?RoyI had to do the same recently with some 4x woofers that had been similarly mistreated. The outcome was very favorable with some highly compliant BA type foams that fit the woofers nicely.IMO, if one can use the right foams, the differences are so minor that the only benefit that's left of cloth surrounds I can see is their long life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironlake Posted September 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 In the past few months I have rebuilt a number of the cloth surround/AR-3 style woofers for "Vintage AR" (in fact, I believe you purchased one of them). I had to use foam surrounds to complete two of them. Woofer testing software showed typical slight variations, indicating any audible differences should be very minor.I should point out that the reason the cloth surrounds were replaced on those woofers is some idiot coated them with a glue or "sealant" of some type, which stiffened them beyond repair. The surrounds were ruined. The irony is that the AR-12 inch cloth surround woofer seldom (if ever) needs "re-sealing".Why do you ask...do you believe you can hear a difference?Royyes I thought I did when I replaced one speaker (the one I got from You) in my ar 3a with the alnico versionover the exact same transition cone with cermanic magnet, but now after listening to the jensen speaker sound comparison chart the change to a smoother sound was the alnico magnet and not the surround. this is my opinion only. jensen site www.jensonsound.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fran604g Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Not to thread crap, but why doesn't anyone make replacement cloth surrounds? It doesn't seem like it could be so very difficult? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlspeak Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Not to thread crap, but why doesn't anyone make replacement cloth surrounds? It doesn't seem like it could be so very difficult?There are manufacturers who make cloth surrounds, but they are for pro-audio drivers. They have a corrugated stucture like a spider and some have two small rolls. The same co. usually makes the cones as well and pre-attaches the surround to the cone for sale to the driver manufacturers.I suspect the demand for 1/2 roll surrounds isn't large enough to justify the unique tooling for that shape, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fran604g Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 There are manufacturers who make cloth surrounds, but they are for pro-audio drivers. They have a corrugated stucture like a spider and some have two small rolls. The same co. usually makes the cones as well and pre-attaches the surround to the cone for sale to the driver manufacturers.I suspect the demand for 1/2 roll surrounds isn't large enough to justify the unique tooling for that shape, etc.That's what I suspected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlspeak Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 That's what I suspected.I also neglected to mention that most vintage cloth surrounds were made from a very fine textile fabric. Pro audio uses a significantly coarser (read stiffer) surround. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marks Custom Guitars Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 I know this is a couple years old. But they do make cloth repair kits . http://www.simplyspeakers.com/jbl-speaker-cloth-edge-repair-kit-clsk-jble120.html When foam first came out late 80s early 90s (that I know of) I thought they were nice, Stability but freedom of movement. Then one day in the mid 2000s I saw the foam falling apart in my vintage Jamo BX 200 speakers. I love those speakers and was very disappointed. So for now Ive replaced the 12 inch speakers with some decent heath kit speakers I had. I havent repaired them because I want the original sound back but I dont want to repair them again in 12 or so years. Appreciate any thoughts on the 2 weather replacing the ring with cloth will hurt the sound . Otherwise I suppose Ill go back to the foam. I bought these when Jamo was owned by Jamo and made incredible speakers. Not the junk they have today Comparably. Ive looked for years for other Jamo BX 200s for sale . I think I saw one set once and the guy wanted double the original price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dxho Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 I'll play... Give the foam surrounds a go. They should last longer than 12 years and get you back or close to the original sound. Cloth surrounds or non-original drivers probably won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michiganpat Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 17 hours ago, dxho said: I'll play... Give the foam surrounds a go. They should last longer than 12 years and get you back or close to the original sound. Cloth surrounds or non-original drivers probably won't. I did some speakers back in '94-95 with a parts express kit. (non-AR's) the kit came with 2 sets of surrounds....they were in my dorm room thru '96, and then after I graduated, in my apartment for '97, and then in my garage from '98-present. I redid the surrounds again in '13 with the other set from the kit because they seemed to be getting a bit weak with all the temperature cycling and spray painting/etc in the garage, but they hadn't failed in 18+ years...the replacements (now 22 years old, but only "in service" for 3) still feel like new. also, the side firing woofers in my AR312HO's bought in 1997 have foam surrounds, and are still like new going on 20 years later.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finjima Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 what would be involved in making a cloth surround? whats equipment is needed and what kind of cloth would be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 FWIW.... I remember asking Bill LeGall if he could do new cloth surrounds on vintage AR & KLH speakers and he said he could (IIRC). -Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlspeak Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 Why bother, unless your looking for an exact restoration. Otherwise, woofer performance is essentially the same. Foam vs cloth, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japhee Posted March 18, 2018 Report Share Posted March 18, 2018 On 9/4/2012 at 10:02 PM, RoyC said: For RoyC on this thread: I'm located near you in the Hudson Valley and looking for somebody to repair or otherwise restore the (cloth) woofer on my Electro Voice EV-4s. I'm getting some subtle but noticeable distortion at low frequencies and I'm really concerned about maintaining the original sound. How can I look you up in the phone book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted March 18, 2018 Report Share Posted March 18, 2018 58 minutes ago, Japhee said: For RoyC on this thread: I'm located near you in the Hudson Valley and looking for somebody to repair or otherwise restore the (cloth) woofer on my Electro Voice EV-4s. I'm getting some subtle but noticeable distortion at low frequencies and I'm really concerned about maintaining the original sound. How can I look you up in the phone book? Welcome to the forum, Japhee... I have little experience with EV woofers. You may need a specialist, or someone like Bill LeGall http://www.millersound.net/ If you would like to discuss this further, or acquire my contact information, send me a personal message through the forum. Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted March 19, 2018 Report Share Posted March 19, 2018 Hi Japhee. I'll assume here that you are not asking about the later model EV-4A's, which used a different assortment of drivers. I have a pair of EV-4's, but I've never really dug into them much yet - - in fact, I still have not tested or replaced the capacitors or revived the beautiful cabinets (with cane grilles). Just for confirmation, the pics attached show the EV-4. The 12" woofer has a cast aluminum basket/frame and employs a pleated cloth surround, but I have never had to try to alleviate any performance problems with diagnosis or driver surgery. If you end up needing a new woofer, the EV-2 is a very similar speaker but it is a two-way, and it uses the identical woofer as the EV-4. If you are interested in seeing any crossover pics or company literature for this model, let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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