The AR2a....looking for info

[lakecat]

I recently acquired one AR2a speaker in near mint original condition. I know little about this speaker other than what I researched here and other places online. I had to remove the staples on the grill and remove it for the first time in order to inspect the drivers and tweeter. I found them dirty but in excellent shape. Some questions...

!. I tore one of the mids tore silightly when cleaning it (man are they fragile! and found some Tacky glue to repair it. It seems to be fine as it moves so little when being played. My question here is this a good enough repair for a 1/2" tear? The cone was lined up perfectly.

2. I read that this tweeter is the same as the one on the A3. Is this true?

3. I read that the caps don't need to to replaced. Is this true?

4. The pot is a little sticky so have to remove the woofer. Having never done it, what is simply the best sealant used that I can get at a hardware store?

5. I see there is a film protecting the stuffing and some have said replace it with a cloth material. Such as?

6. When I removed the grill, the material sticks out past the masonite backing and wondered how to wrap that to the back so I can use velcro strips on the grill. It is stiff and has the gold threading in it.

Lastly...what is my chances of finding a mate to this one?

Thanks for any help and provided pics.

[JKent]

The AR 2a is a wonderful speaker. I have a pair and the caps in mine are some kind of mil-spec (surplus, I assume) oil-filled cans. If that's what you have, leave them. As for the pots, try turning them clockwise & counterclockwise several times to scrape off crud if possible. If you can then find a sweet spot, leave them alone and don't open up the cabinet.

If you do end up opening the cabinet, there will be a layer of kimpac paper to keep the fiberglass out of the woofer. Yes--you can replace it with cloth. A piece of sheer cloth, such as crinoline will work.

Your tacky glue repair "may" be OK. A tissue patch would have been appropriate but if it is sealed leave it alone. As you have learned the hard way, there is no reason to "clean" the drivers and big reasons not to.

The grille cloth is supposed to hang over on each side, and the masonite slips under the lip on the grille frame, on the short sides. Don't use velcro or wrap the cloth. Reinstall the way they were originally. Bow the masonite slightly, slip the short ends under the lips. You can then push the overlap on the long sides under the lips with a putty knife or similar.

If you need to replace the woofer sealant you can get "duct seal" in the electrical dept of a hardware store. It is like children's plasticene modeling clay. Make a long "worm" for a gasket.

The best "mod" is probably RoyC's woofer surround sealant. Ebay seller Vintage_AR may be selling it soon. Apply a VERY THIN coating to the woofer surround. DO NOT use any other product.

Yes--the tweeter is the same as the AR3 (but not the 3a).

Bottom line: don't screw up your "near mint original condition" speaker any more than you already have. Sorry--I just re-read that and it sounds harsh but most of these parts are irreplaceable. No reason to alter a working vintage speaker. If you're lucky, you "may" find an original mid on ebay but my advice (take it or leave it) is to leave the speaker alone. Carefully replace the grille and enjoy the sound--either as a center channel in a surround system or as the only speaker in a mono system.

Good luck.

Kent

[dynaco_dan]

Hi there

The mids have a very delicate, like a wasp nest type material, and are still sticky after all these many years, on the surround area.

The dome has a very powerful magnet and no metal tools or steel wool should be anywhere near them.

How did the AR-2A sound before removing the grille cloth?

From my own experience, if one was to store or ship a pair of twins they must be carefully spaced apart face to face, even a pair of twins touching face to face is a disaster.

After being given very careful and detailed instructions how to ship a twin set using bubblewrap, the seller shoved the wrap between the cones and destroyed all 4 drives in one easy step.

[lakecat]

Thanks for responding and appreciate the knowlege you give. I don't want to change anything but I took the grill off to check the drivers..etc. Yes...it was stupid of me to tear the mid but I didn't realize the fragile nature of them. I was just using a micro towel very softly to remove dust. Live and learn...sigh. The speaker iteslf sounded great and I knew to turn the poits back and forth. They were very stiff at first and got easier but they don't work very well. Up in the air about what to do about it. I just may try to find a sweet spot and leave it.

I do have a pair of mint AR2ax's that have been recapped and pots cleaned so I know what that does for a speaker. But I also have Heathkit version of the AR3a in mint condition also that I hopefully won't have to touch and is still all original.... and my favorite speakers.The sound is so gorgeous that I dread ever having to touch it.

I would love to find a match to this 2a and hear them as they should be heard. I don't see them mentioned hardly ever here or elsewhere on the net and thought they may be second rate to the ax's as I see conversions for the 2a to convert to ax's. I haven't tried this speaker on its side either and see that is how it is suppose to be played so will try that.

Thanks for the reply on the grill and I will just leave as is and reinstall loose. Should I put velcro in the centers?

[dynaco_dan]

Hi again

I wrote my story just in case you or someone else may wish to buy off the net or ?

With great care each driver can be removed from the aluminum/plastic housing and be specially packaged for posting.

They can be specially packaged individually also.

I haven't visited ebuy in a long time, I suspect that pairs and individual drivers are on auction all the time.

The AR-2 set a standard for their 10" woofer and horizontal dual mid/tweeter system.

By adding a 1 3/8" tweeter and changing the crossover the AR-2A was an improvement.

By changing the dual cone to a single cone midrange and changing to the 3/4" tweetrer another standard was established.

We can look back and see how solid a speaker system the AR-2AX was in sound and sales.

Also there was the change in woofers during at least the later AR-2AX sales.

I do believe that your speaker has the military metal body cap with PCB.

If all is working correctly I do not think you will need to replace it, just raising awareness.

My personnal feeling is to, if need be that is, replace the pots and replace Rockwool with fibeglass cabinet filler pound for pound, not polyfill.

[JKent]

Hey Lakecat

I would never characterize your goof as "stupid". I've done way too many bone-headed things myself to sit in judgment. Just saying to go slow.

Since you have the 2ax's you might try comparing the two, using your amp in mono and switching back & forth between the 2ax and the 2a. Even with your completely refurbished 2ax's you may be pleasantly surprised by the 2a. The only thing that might degrade the sound would be, as mentioned, porous cloth woofer surrounds.

Early on I "assumed" the 2ax was an improvement over the 2a and that the dual angled mids were inferior but knowledgeable members suggested that may be a mistaken assumption and I can tell you that when I actually listened to the 2a's I was very, very impressed. They are great speakers IMHO.

Will you find another? Who knows? You did find one.

Happy listening.

Kent

[dynaco_dan]

Hi again

I have never compaired the 2A against either of the 2AX's versions with any other speaker system.

Shining a flashlight through the grille clothe you will be able to see which version of 2AX's you have.

Kent has a wealth of knowledge and his advice is sound, no pun intended.

Due to the cost and special care of packaging either the drivers or entire system, check out at local thrift shops and CL.

Sadly some members find curbside and dumpster treasures, I find nothing, it matters not how hard I look.

[JKent]

btw--a quick search on ebay showed a single 2a that did not sell Item number: 140786450833, and one that did Item number: 130715202420.

Your torn mid is probably OK but those come up for sale, too. There is a pair right now.

Kent

[dynaco_dan]

Hi again

Another thought I had later on this evening.

Other members can say yay or nay to replacing the dual mids with an adapter board with the 3 1/2" cone driver and maybe adjust the crossover.

These are often offered on auction.

Just an idea, may or may not be feasible.

[genek]

The AR-2a's cross-fired mids were designed to increase horizontal dispersion with the speaker laid on its long face. The 2ax upgrade is probably a good idea if you intend to use the speaker in a vertical orientation.

[lakecat]

The ax version I own was purchased in 1977. I got them from the original owner and he still had the bill of sale which he gave me and some AR literature that came with the speaker. I took them to a "speaker" guy to get them recapped and the pots cleaned. This pair is as good as it gets with the ax's for me as they are mint and it was an investment for me. I still feel they are breaking in as the sound gets better every time I listen to them.

I like the sealant idea with the 2a woofer. When do you think I could get it? When I get some time, I will compare this a2 to the ax's. I took a Bose chrome tulip stand and attached a finished oak piece on it with rubber grommets for my ax's to sit on. I love that height for the AR's and will try the a2 sideways on one of the stands to see how it sounds.

Thanks for the info on the mids. I played this one with the Tacky glue fix and it is fine. Pics of the ax's and stands below. This is set-up in my sons old bedroom for now.

[JKent]

Here is Vintage-AR's store: http://stores.ebay.com/VINTAGE-AR-PARTS-AND-SERVICE

He has a good selection and knows his stuff. Prices tend to be high.

I don't see the sealant listed yet but you could contact him and ask about availability of cloth woofer surround sealant.

Here's a test: If you place 3 fingers around the woofer dust cap, like a tripod, bush the cone inward and see how long it takes to return. If it takes a second or 2 the seal is good but if it pops right out there is an air leak and it's time for the sealant. Your 2ax's have foam surrounds. Do not use the sealant on foam.

You could try the woofer-push test on the 2a and the 2ax and compare them.

The 2ax's look nice!

Kent

[lakecat]

Thanks for the link J. I have seen some of his stuff on the bay but didn't realize he had so much. I did try the woofer test and it popped right back out. I very gently pushed it in like you said and it moved about an inch into something solid beneath it and when I let go, it just popped right back up....sigh. I will have to contact this seller and ask if he has a sealer for the woofer. Has anyone tried anything else previously? Does it make a dramatic sound difference? Thanks.

[dxho]

Sealing can be a fairly simple process. Just run a bead or two of this stuff around each speaker... It cost about $6 at my local Lowe's store.

[lakecat]

Sealing can be a fairly simple process. Just run a bead or two of this stuff around each speaker... It cost about $6 at my local Lowe's store.

Thanks but I think as stated above that it is the surround that needs sealed. This woofer has never been removed so still sealed as from factory. That will help but another suggested the duct seal which I do have in workshop as I may have to remove the woofer to get at the pots.

I wonder if one could thin down the Tacky glue with something and use it? It doesn't harden completely and stays flexible. It worked great for the tear on the mid. Or some kind of silicone solution......

[JKent]

DANGER WILL ROBINSON!

I fear you are talking about 2 different things. The caulk referred to by dxho is to replace the gummy stuff that seals the driver's frame to the cabinet. Duct Seal is also good.

What I mentioned above was sealing the cloth woofer surround. The butyl/toluene stuff cooked up by Roy is perfect and identical to the original. DO NOT use tacky glue, silicone, latex caulk or any of the other things people have mentioned. They may remain "flexible" but not to the degree needed and they will absolutely alter the woofer and therefore the entire speaker system. Since it failed the tripod test, there is a leak. ONLY use Roy's formula which, as I said, will soon be available from Vintage AR.

Anything else will RUIN your beautiful speaker! Better to have an air leak for a while.

Kent

[lakecat]

DANGER WILL ROBINSON!

I fear you are talking about 2 different things. The caulk referred to by dxho is to replace the gummy stuff that seals the driver's frame to the cabinet. Duct Seal is also good.

What I mentioned above was sealing the cloth woofer surround. The butyl/toluene stuff cooked up by Roy is perfect and identical to the original. DO NOT use tacky glue, silicone, latex caulk or any of the other things people have mentioned. They may remain "flexible" but not to the degree needed and they will absolutely alter the woofer and therefore the entire speaker system. Since it failed the tripod test, there is a leak. ONLY use Roy's formula which, as I said, will soon be available from Vintage AR.

Anything else will RUIN your beautiful speaker! Better to have an air leak for a while.

Kent

Got it. I understand the difference and just wanted to clarify to the poster. I contacted Roy?...the Ebay guy..... and haven't heard back from him. Guess I will wait and continue to look for a mate. Curious to hear this speaker when corrected to how it's suppose to sound. Thanks so much for all the help.

[JKent]

Roy is a senior member here. Larry is the ebay guy (vintage_AR). He will be buying the sealant from Roy to sell in his ebay store.

[RoyC]

lakecat,

I still have a small amount left from the first batch I made, and can send you enough for your two woofers. I would, however, double check all driver gaskets for leakage first.

The AR 10 inch cloth surround seldom needs to be re-sealed.

Roy

[lakecat]

lakecat,

I still have a small amount left from the first batch I made, and can send you enough for your two woofers. I would, however, double check all driver gaskets for leakage first.

The AR 10 inch cloth surround seldom needs to be re-sealed.

Roy

Hi Roy..thank you for the reply. These driver gaskets are all original and never touched so I assumed they were still sealed. I know little of the cloth surround so when someone mentioned sealing the cloth with your material, it made sense. Now you say that the cloth rarely fails so I am back to zero as far as where to check. I did look over the drivers and it seems tight and the sealant still pliable around the edges.

I just know so little about this, I am at a loss at what to do. There is only the mid and woofer to check...right? I just may put this away for now and give it to my speaker guy if and when I find another to match this one.

[RoyC]

Hi Roy..thank you for the reply. These driver gaskets are all original and never touched so I assumed they were still sealed. I know little of the cloth surround so when someone mentioned sealing the cloth with your material, it made sense. Now you say that the cloth rarely fails so I am back to zero as far as where to check. I did look over the drivers and it seems tight and the sealant still pliable around the edges.

I just know so little about this, I am at a loss at what to do. There is only the mid and woofer to check...right? I just may put this away for now and give it to my speaker guy if and when I find another to match this one.

lakecat,

Any covered hole in the cabinet can be the source of a leak. The most obvious ones are the driver-to-cabinet seals of the tweeter, mid, and woofer. If all seals seem OK, then maybe some re-sealant is needed for your woofer surrounds. Applying the re-sealant discussed above won't hurt anything, whether you "need it" or not...Btw, if your level controls are working, your 2a is probably quite usable as is, regardless of your woofer "push test" results. Just don't drive the speaker too hard.

Send me a PM if I can be of assistance. I may also have a line on a single AR-2a to go with the one you have.

Roy

[lakecat]

lakecat,

Any covered hole in the cabinet can be the source of a leak. The most obvious ones are the driver-to-cabinet seals of the tweeter, mid, and woofer. If all seals seem OK, then maybe some re-sealant is needed for your woofer surrounds. Applying the re-sealant discussed above won't hurt anything, whether you "need it" or not...Btw, if your level controls are working, your 2a is probably quite usable as is, regardless of your woofer "push test" results. Just don't drive the speaker too hard.

Send me a PM if I can be of assistance. I may also have a line on a single AR-2a to go with the one you have.

Roy

Hi Roy... I did try to PM you thru here and it stated you can't accept messages. Wanted info on how to get the sealant from ya and the info on the a2 you stated is available. Thanks.

[RoyC]

Hi Roy... I did try to PM you thru here and it stated you can't accept messages. Wanted info on how to get the sealant from ya and the info on the a2 you stated is available. Thanks.

Sorry...my PM space was full. It should be OK now.

Roy