AR-5 Tweeter Question

[sphotoz]

I am new to this forum. Lot's of great information. I have a pair of AR-5 speakers I purchased new in March of 1974. Anyway, I just replaced the level controls and caps in both speakers. I have one speaker that has some distortion at high volume in the tweeter. So, I have read most of the replacement options on the board and it looks like the Hi-Vi Tweeter is the way to go. So, not sure where the best option is for purchasing these tweeters. I did send Larry at the e-bay vintage AR store a note to see if that is the tweeter he has in stock. He did answer and said he would look into it for me. His tweeters are $69 each with the inductors already wired to the tweeter. Is this a reasonable price or is there a better option? Thanks for your help.

Steve

[genek]

The HiVi tweeter plus inductor is the best currently available bolt-in new part replacement. Parts Express will sell you the tweeters for $22.50 each and the inductors for $7-$10 each, depending on which ones you choose. So the question is whether it's worth it to you to research the discussion threads on this site that established the inductor values and put the parts together yourself to save around $25 for each tweeter/inductor. If you don't feel comfortable doing it and want someone to assemble them and write out a clear set of instructions that will walk you through the process of replacing the tweeter on your speakers, you can depend on Larry to deliver what he promises.

[RoyC]

I am new to this forum. Lot's of great information. I have a pair of AR-5 speakers I purchased new in March of 1974. Anyway, I just replaced the level controls and caps in both speakers. I have one speaker that has some distortion at high volume in the tweeter. So, I have read most of the replacement options on the board and it looks like the Hi-Vi Tweeter is the way to go. So, not sure where the best option is for purchasing these tweeters. I did send Larry at the e-bay vintage AR store a note to see if that is the tweeter he has in stock. He did answer and said he would look into it for me. His tweeters are $69 each with the inductors already wired to the tweeter. Is this a reasonable price or is there a better option? Thanks for your help.

Steve

Steve,

The AR-2ax used the same tweeter as the AR-5. Used ones become available quite often. In fact, I have an extra one...will send you a PM regarding that.

If you go with the HiVi tweeter, a parallel 18ga, .05mh inductor seems to be the preferred way to go with the 5.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl....5-200&DID=7

Roy

[sphotoz]

Genek and RoyC thanks for the comments. Roy, just sent you an e-mail. Still trying to decide in the long run if I am better off replacing the bad tweeter with an old original or the HiVi tweeter.

[RoyC]

Genek and RoyC thanks for the comments. Roy, just sent you an e-mail. Still trying to decide in the long run if I am better off replacing the bad tweeter with an old original or the HiVi tweeter.

Steve,

If you decide to try the HiVi tweeter, you should install one in both speakers, as it does not sound exactly the same as the original tweeter. I do not recommend using a HiVi tweeter in one cabinet and an original tweeter in the other.

Roy

[sphotoz]

I replaced both of my AR-5 tweeters with the HiVi Tweeters. Thanks very much to RoyC for all of his help and wiring up and preparing the tweeters for installation. I must say, I think the speakers sound as good or better than they ever have. Certainly renewed the old life in these speakers. While I am sure it does not sound like the originial tweeters, it has been so long since I have heard the originals at their best. The clarity of AR's is what originally brought me to purchase these speakers 36 years ago and I think that clarity has been restored. In addition to the tweeter replacement, I replaced all the caps and the level controls with parts from Vintage AR. At the recommendation of RoyC, I added a 25 ohm resistor across the mid to compensate for the new level control values. So, hopefully my AR-5's are ready for many more years of listening pleasure.

[Shacky]

I replaced both of my AR-5 tweeters with the HiVi Tweeters. Thanks very much to RoyC for all of his help and wiring up and preparing the tweeters for installation. I must say, I think the speakers sound as good or better than they ever have. Certainly renewed the old life in these speakers. While I am sure it does not sound like the originial tweeters, it has been so long since I have heard the originals at their best. The clarity of AR's is what originally brought me to purchase these speakers 36 years ago and I think that clarity has been restored. In addition to the tweeter replacement, I replaced all the caps and the level controls with parts from Vintage AR. At the recommendation of RoyC, I added a 25 ohm resistor across the mid to compensate for the new level control values. So, hopefully my AR-5's are ready for many more years of listening pleasure.

RoyC helped me tremedously too! I love my AR 5's with the HiVi and inductors. I put the 25 OHM resistors across both the Mids and Tweeters - on outside of cabinet as seen below.

And here's a picture of crossover before I replaced the original pots with L-Pads.

[Ibis]

Hi

Im new to this forum and have a question related to AR5 tweeters, I have just bought a pair of AR5 in the UK but unfortunately both tweeters have blown.

I believe they can be replaced with AR 2ax latter types but the earlier AR2ax with the rad cap have a differnt value so I assume these will not be compatible?

I have read much on this forum about the HiVi tweeter which is recommended and although I cant seem to get them in the UK I am happy to shipp them from the US,

What I also am not sure of is how to fit the .05 parallel inductor.

I would be really grateful if any one could help

Thanks

Ibis

[dynaco_dan]

Hi

Im new to this forum and have a question related to AR5 tweeters, I have just bought a pair of AR5 in the UK but unfortunately both tweeters have blown.

I believe they can be replaced with AR 2ax latter types but the earlier AR2ax with the rad cap have a differnt value so I assume these will not be compatible?

I have read much on this forum about the HiVi tweeter which is recommended and although I cant seem to get them in the UK I am happy to shipp them from the US,

What I also am not sure of is how to fit the .05 parallel inductor.

I would be really grateful if any one could help

Thanks

Ibis

Hi there

Before you do any repairs, check out the pots first.

Turn them CCW and CW, several times in case the pot's are just corroded.

Good luck.

[RoyC]

Hi

Im new to this forum and have a question related to AR5 tweeters, I have just bought a pair of AR5 in the UK but unfortunately both tweeters have blown.

I believe they can be replaced with AR 2ax latter types but the earlier AR2ax with the rad cap have a differnt value so I assume these will not be compatible?

I have read much on this forum about the HiVi tweeter which is recommended and although I cant seem to get them in the UK I am happy to shipp them from the US,

What I also am not sure of is how to fit the .05 parallel inductor.

I would be really grateful if any one could help

Thanks

Ibis

Hi Ibis,

Here is a link to an earlier discussion and photos showing how to implement the HiVi tweeter:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=6108

The earlier AR2a/2ax tweeter would probably work as well. The tweeter circuit (4uf capacitor and level control)) is the same for all versions of the 2ax as well as the 5. It is a tough tweeter to find for a reasonable price, however, as it is the same one used in the AR-3. It also has fragile aluminum leads making it difficult to work with.

Roy

[Ibis]

HI Roy and Dynaco Dan

Thanks for your help, I have tried the tweeters using an existing crossover so I dont think its the pots, I think they have just expired, thanks Dynaco Dan.

I will go for the HiVi replacements thanks Roy for the link. Despite the shipping and tax they will probably work out cheaper than waiting for originals. I missed a pair last night on ebay for 72 dollars plus 50 shipping.

Slightly off topic, the person I bought the AR 5s from had chopped them in half to fit them into a piece of furniture so I will be making some more cabinets, he chopped them horizontally

so I have the internal depth and width but he may have taken a bit out of the height ! Fortunately I have established the external height of the cabinet was 610mm so I can now calculate all the internal dimensions

Im probably going to use 19mm birch ply.

Thanks again for your invaluable help.

Ibis

[JKent]

Hi Ibis and welcome to CSP

If you are an expert cabinet maker, have at it. Another option would be to look for a pair of 2ax's. Same cabinet as the 5 I believe and should be much cheaper, AND they may have good tweeters. Then just sell the 2ax woofers and mids.

Kent

[Ibis]

HI Kent

Thanks for your kind welcome and your brilliant idea !

It had crossed my mind that I have know idea what internal bracing would be involved making the cabinets, and I didnt realise the 5 shared the same cabinet and tweeter as the 2ax.

That is a " two birds with one stone" direct hit of an idea !

I will keep my eyes open

Thanks

Ibis

[RoyC]

HI Kent

Thanks for your kind welcome and your brilliant idea !

It had crossed my mind that I have know idea what internal bracing would be involved making the cabinets, and I didnt realise the 5 shared the same cabinet and tweeter as the 2ax.

That is a " two birds with one stone" direct hit of an idea !

I will keep my eyes open

Thanks

Ibis

Ibis,

The cabinets are the same, but the AR-2ax tweeter hole is placed lower on the front baffle, and the AR-5 midrange is much larger than the AR-2ax midrange.

The AR-2ax/AR-5 cabinet has no internal bracing.

Roy

[JKent]

Roy makes a valid point about the front baffle and he has far more experience with these than I, but if you are game to build cabinets, just modifying the front baffle should be no problem.

Although the 2ax/5 were designed without bracing, some restorers and modifiers recommend adding some. You could add a single brace, front-to-back, screwed to the front baffle and back panel. Probably not necessary but as I say, some people do recommend this.

http://www.humanspeakers.com/howto/bracing.htm

good luck

Kent

[Ibis]

Hi Roy and Kent

Thanks for the advice,

It must be my lucky day, just found a pair of 2ax about 2 hours drive from my home for £10. They look to good to break up so this has made me decide to build new cabinets for the 5s and either wait for the tweeter

or use the Hi Vi. It will be interesting to compare the two. Im no expert cabinet maker but have made a couple of guitars and a pair of Audio Notes in the past so it should be fun!

Thanks for the advice on the bracing.

I will keep you posted as to their progress

All the best from the UK

Ibis

[michiganpat]

Hi Ibis and welcome to CSP

If you are an expert cabinet maker, have at it. Another option would be to look for a pair of 2ax's. Same cabinet as the 5 I believe and should be much cheaper, AND they may have good tweeters. Then just sell the 2ax woofers and mids.

Kent

they share the woofers, too, don't they?

if I were me, and I needed to make new cabs, I'd probably build them with the same internal volume as the original, but maybe slightly narrower and taller, and align the drivers vertically, or at least stack the mid and tweet vertically, and mirror imaged from side to side, ala the AR302/303/303a...

[Ibis]

they share the woofers, too, don't they?

if I were me, and I needed to make new cabs, I'd probably build them with the same internal volume as the original, but maybe slightly narrower and taller, and align the drivers vertically, or at least stack the mid and tweet vertically, and mirror imaged from side to side, ala the AR302/303/303a...

Sounds interesting, I assume this may give a more favorable wave pattern between the mid and tweeters ? Looking forward to this

Thanks

Ibis

[dynaco_dan]

Hi Ibis,

The earlier AR2a/2ax tweeter would probably work as well. The tweeter circuit (4uf capacitor and level control)) is the same for all versions of the 2ax as well as the 5. It is a tough tweeter to find for a reasonable price, however, as it is the same one used in the AR-3. It also has fragile aluminum leads making it difficult to work with.

Roy

Hi Roy

I missed all your write ups here, while I was away, Roy.

I may be wrong with this, isn't the AR-3 and early AR-2AX with the 1 3/8" tweeters, both using 7,500 HZ crossover frequencies?

When Roy Allison recalled recently, that they used the same physical and impedance tweeters, why have so many voices been saying

different DSR's over the years?

Myself included.

Perhaps with the 3/4" tweeters, that came later for the, AR-3A 4 ohm, AR-5 and AR-2AX both 8 ohms, which were different impedances, we may have accepted that we all knew

the 1 3/8" were different impedances, instead of the same.

I never thought to even measure the DSR of any of the ones I bought, other than a quick 1 1/2 volt test.

Certainly someone haa checked the DSR, of the, supposed different tweeters over the last 40+ years and noticed that they were the same.

I was buying up the AR-2AX 1 3/8" tweeters for a low figure on, ebuy, a few years ago, cheap, nobody thought that there was any further use for them.

Perhaps by posting that fact here, on this website, that they are the same, has now given sellers the opportunity to sell theirs as AR-3 tweeters.

More profitable than AR-2AX tweeters to be sure, to the sellers.

If the crossover is 7,500 HZ, then, is the tweeter able to be used at the lower 5,000 HZ with no loss of output or damage to it.

No possible problems with efficiency, bolt pattern or dispersion ( not as full as 3/4" ), compared to any other possible replacement brand tweeter available today.

Just a thought for today, Roy.

[sphotoz]

Just a note since I saw this thread still going. My AR-5's sound great thanks to RoyC and the HiVi tweeters. They have been installed since June of last year and sound as good or better than ever.

[RoyC]

Just a thought for today, Roy.

Hey Vern!

It is really good to be chatting with you again!

Regardless of the stated crossover specs, this is what we know:

-The 1+" orange dome tweeter used in the AR-3, 2a, and 2ax was the same 1.9+/- ohm driver. I have measured dozens of them. We used to assume that a higher impedance version was used in the 2a/2ax, but it did not turn out to be the case. Roy Allison confirmed this for us.

-It was used with a 6uf series cap in the AR-3, and a 4uf series cap in the AR-2a and early AR-2ax.

-Since the orange dome tweeter was used with the very same crossover components as the later black 3/4" dome in the 2ax, it is obviously not at risk if used as a replacement. How it sounds is another matter.

-The 3/4" dome used in the AR-2ax, 5, and LST 2 did have higher (6+/- ohm) DCR than its AR-3a/LST (3+/- ohm) counterpart.

I believe the resistance provided by the level controls is what makes both types of tweeters work satisfactorily with the same crossover components. The specs probably state the crossover frequency at a given pot setting, but it actually varies with different settings.

Roy

[Ibis]

Hi Ibis,

Here is a link to an earlier discussion and photos showing how to implement the HiVi tweeter:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=6108

The earlier AR2a/2ax tweeter would probably work as well. The tweeter circuit (4uf capacitor and level control)) is the same for all versions of the 2ax as well as the 5. It is a tough tweeter to find for a reasonable price, however, as it is the same one used in the AR-3. It also has fragile aluminum leads making it difficult to work with.

Roy

Hi Roy

On my continuing search for A5 tweeters I have just seen these advertised.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120692241192#ht_500wt_1038

Although advertised as 2ax they look distinctly like A5s ? I have asked the seller to confirm.

Would these be the earlier 2ax with the smaller diameter dome before the red cap, if so you think they would work in the A5 without a problem?

Thanks

Ibis

[genek]

These are the later 2ax/5 tweeters. The ones with the larger red domes were the earlier AR-3/2ax tweeters and were never used on the 5. The last version was the same as these but back-wired.

[RoyC]

Hi Roy

On my continuing search for A5 tweeters I have just seen these advertised.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120692241192#ht_500wt_1038

Although advertised as 2ax they look distinctly like A5s ? I have asked the seller to confirm.

Would these be the earlier 2ax with the smaller diameter dome before the red cap, if so you think they would work in the A5 without a problem?

Thanks

Ibis

Ibis,

The 8 ohm (6 ohm, dcr), 3/4" black dome tweeter was used in both the AR-2ax and AR-5... same tweeter. The tweeters in the Ebay link are perfect replacements for your AR-5 tweeters. They are the tweeters your 5's were originally equipped with.

The "earlier" AR-2ax tweeter we have been discussing has a larger 1+ inch dome, and is red/orange in color. The only other models that tweeter was used in were the AR-2a and AR-3. Sorry for any confusion.

Roy

[Ibis]

Ibis,

The 8 ohm (6 ohm, dcr), 3/4" black dome tweeter was used in both the AR-2ax and AR-5... same tweeter. The tweeters in the Ebay link are perfect replacements for your AR-5 tweeters. They are the tweeters your 5's were originally equipped with.

The "earlier" AR-2ax tweeter we have been discussing has a larger 1+ inch dome, and is red/orange in color. The only other models that tweeter was used in were the AR-2a and AR-3. Sorry for any confusion.

Roy

Hi Roy

Thanks so much for clarifying this for me, Im sure it was me that had confused things!

All the best

Ian