Gaston Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 I got those speakers like almost 10 years a go, but somehow they never managed to get their turn. The previous owner did not loved them enough it seams. The cabinets are lousily stained and the drivers were fixed/sealed with a silicone glue!!! - while removing the drivers parts of the material chipped off: And finally today I began with sanding. It's a real pain to remove the stain, even with a sander. Uncovered is now the reason for staining I believe: Tomorrow I will get some veneer, so the main issue I have now is what type of veneer is this? American Walnut? European Walnut? Here's some better pictures after sanding: The drivers were also in pretty bad shape, the masonite ring was lost on the bass driver, the tweeter was destroyed because of overtightening... it's all now fixed and they are just waiting for the cabinets (and maybe caps replacement also): One bass driver fixed: Both fixed: Applying the armature and layers of plastic on the broken tweeters: And this is the result: I apologize for posting so many pictures, I hope you guys don't mind... In case you missed my question, could you please tell me what is the type of veneer used on AR-11B's (those were Made in England). Thank you all! p.s. One more thing - I only have Colron's Danish Oil in Jacobean Dark Oak color. Here, where I am, it's impossible to find Danish Oil and I also had in Neutral color but not anymore. Am I going to ruin them with this colored Danish Oil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR55 Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 My USA made A-11A's & my USA made AR-11B's have an American walnut veneer. Since your pair were made in England, my guess is that they used European walnut. That being said, even if you get the correct veneer you may have to stain it to get it match the existing veneer. In my case, I had to re-veneered the bottom faces of a pair of AR-11A's. The top and sides of the speakers had a American walnut veneer, but when I sanded it down I discovered that it was slightly redder in color than the new Walnut veneer. Since it was the bottom of the cabinet, and would be seldom seen, I didn't bother trying to precisely match the color. I later experimented a leftover piece of the new veneer and found that I could very closely match the color of the existing veneer, if I applied a light cherry stain to the new veneer before applying Danish oil finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR55 Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 Sorry, I forgot to reply to your second question regarding the colored Danish oil. I would try it out on the bottom surface of one of your speakers to see how it looks. If it looks good, finish the rest of the speaker with it. If it doesn't, no real harm done since few are likely to see it. You can then consider another option, such as linseed oil. I have never worked with it, but I know that others on the forum have had success with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genek Posted June 23, 2021 Report Share Posted June 23, 2021 The veneer used on US-made walnut ARs was American, aka, Eastern, black walnut (Juglans nigra). None of the AR drawings we have actually specify what walnut to use, so likely the choice was simply based on the fact that this is the most common and therefore the least expensive walnut available in the US. If European-made ARs used domestic walnut, it would probably be English/French Juglans regia. However, American black walnut was and still is exported worldwide and is more common, so it's entirely possible that a cabinet made outside the US might still have used it. Either way, your chances of finding a perfect match for 40-year-old walnut in new wood are pretty low. Your best bet might be to use the most grain-light piece you can find and then use a graining pen to feather it into the old wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston Posted June 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 Yes, thank you guys, you are all right. I've tried with some American Veneer from local shop (European was even more lighter), the color/shade is different and I have done a lousy job... This, as you see - needs to be redone, I just don't know what should I try. I do not know what a graining pen is or how to use it, but I will try to google the method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genek Posted June 24, 2021 Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 The color and shade will probably always be different. Your original veneer is 40+ years old and today's available wood just won't match it. Just get something lighter (which you have), line up the grain as best you can and then blend it in with the pens. Graining pen demo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston Posted June 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 Hey @genek thank you! This is great! Matter of fact I have already done that on furniture scratched by kids toys. I just used various shades of permanent pens/markers with great success. So, this should be applied after finishing/oiling the cabinets, right? Some other thought crossed my mind: How easy is to remove a piece of the old veneer from the bottom surface of the speaker, to be used for repairing those damages on the visible places and then to apply the new veneer on the bottom (nobody looks down there, isn't it)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genek Posted June 24, 2021 Report Share Posted June 24, 2021 I would apply the base color first, then the finish, then the graining. That will keep the grain lines from bleeding into the base. After you get the grain matched as best you can, you'll want to protect it with a dab of clear or at least some wax. These cabinets were usually made from sheets of veneer board rather than being veneered after assembly, so the veneer is bonded with industrial strength glue and a lot of heat and pressure. You can try a heat gun, but the odds of getting it all off clean are probably not very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 Gaston Your work on repairing the drivers and sanding the cabinets is beautiful! Is that chip on a back edge? If so it probably won't be noticeable. I think after staining and graining as Gene described your "lousy job" could be quite presentable. But I suspect you're a perfectionist. Tomorrow I'll sort through my bits of veneer and see if I have a reasonable match. If so I could mail it to you. About how big a piece do you need? Kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genek Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 The top patch looks fine as-is and the corner is already recontructed. I'd start by leveling the side patch with a bit of filler, sanding it all smooth and then doing the touchup. Trying to dig out either patch risks doing more damage to the surrounding original veneer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston Posted June 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 @genek I am going back to work from Monday, the weekend will be spent with the family, so the work on them will have to continue when I have next days off. Soon I hope. I have fixed the side patch with Epoxy glue (mistake?), I believe now that will be very hard to remove, but with patience anything is possible... but I will try to redo the work only if @JKent finds a corresponding matching peace of veneer! Or if you guys advise not to risk further destruction, I will proceed with the touchup. Hey Kent, many thanx for the offer! I would need a small piece of veneer, 5x5 cm (2x2 inches) would be more than enough. Until next days off, they temporarily went to the attic (it's not a discoloring on the bottoms, only a shadow): This veneer is really beautiful... 13 hours ago, JKent said: Your work on repairing the drivers That was not me, a friend did them. He is a technician at this concert organizing company, so speaker repair is his daily routine. But he also works at home, so people like me benefit from his expertise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genek Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 I'd just go forward with the pens and color/grain the patch. Trying to replace the epoxy is a lot of work and risk. But order pens specifically designed for touching up wood finishes, don't just use any old felt tip marker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 39 minutes ago, genek said: I'd just go forward with the pens and color/grain the patch. Trying to replace the epoxy is a lot of work and risk. But order pens specifically designed for touching up wood finishes, don't just use any old felt tip marker. Agree. Gene knows his stuff. But if you want a patch PM me. I'll see what I have, maybe send a photo. Kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genek Posted June 25, 2021 Report Share Posted June 25, 2021 BTW, I've used both hard tipped markers and the brush tipped ones in the video. The brush tips are much better for creating realistic grain patterns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lARrybody Posted June 26, 2021 Report Share Posted June 26, 2021 Gaston I have a pair of English made AR 12's which may be the same veneer as yours. It had after market woofers that were installed with some kind of gasket sealer and I had the same damage when I removed them. I stabilized the damaged particle board with Zpoxy a epoxy recommended by member GD70 who is a expert on veneer repairs such as you are working on. I used q-tips to keep the epoxy out of the T-nut holes. Here they are with the correct woofers installed with gasket tape. Good luck on your AR11'b project. Looking great already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston Posted July 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2022 Posting on a forum actually can be used as a good shock how the time passes. Now, after more than a year I have somehow managed to finish them. This is the finish after 3 coats of Colron Refined Danish Oil in Jacobean Dark Oak: https://www.wood-finishes-direct.com/product/colron-refined-danish-oil It did darken them, but very nicely actually. They could have been much better done, but I am happy. The aluminum rings around the tweeters are there because I was afraid that I will break the fragile dry plastic. This is the first time that I gave them a good listen (first time - only briefly 10 years a go or more when I bought them). Then, 10 years a go I had a feeling that they had nasal sound, but now they sound... neutral to my ears. At the start I had the mids at -6dB and highs at -3dB. I would not touch anything. The sound is modern. I mean they sound very nice, but the sound is clean and neutral - compared to AR-3a. The 3a's are much easier listen than those. Even AR-14's sound mellower (tell me if I am wrong). Perhaps tweeters really need those acoustic blankets installed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston Posted August 1, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 I was wrong. They don't sound neutral, mids are too much for my ears. -6dB on the back switch is not enough to calm them. Also, can someone confirm or maybe there's some defect with my speakers - they sound like there's not enough upper bass. Low bass is present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aadams Posted August 1, 2022 Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 24 minutes ago, Gaston said: I was wrong. They don't sound neutral, mids are too much for my ears. -6dB on the back switch is not enough to calm them. Also, can someone confirm or maybe there's some defect with my speakers - they sound like there's not enough upper bass. Low bass is present. Did you use the correct weight in fiberglass stuffing not polyfil? Are you sure the woofers are connected in phase? Just reveiw questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston Posted August 1, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Aadams said: Did you use the correct weight in fiberglass stuffing not polyfil? Are you sure the woofers are connected in phase? Just reveiw questions. Thanx for your reply Aadams! The woofers are in phase. They were not stuffed with fiberglass originally. I used the original polyfil, I measured it - arround 400gr per speaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aadams Posted August 2, 2022 Report Share Posted August 2, 2022 Maybe English ADDs came with polyfil but I am pretty sure US ADD series had fiberglass. My AR14s had yellow fiberglass. The damping properties are very different for an equal weight of material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston Posted August 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2022 I can certainly try to replace it with fiberglass (even though, fiberglass has been succeeded by stone wool here - some usual european regulation crap aimed to destruct ones and to launch others behind the curtains of ecology and health). If I do manage to find fiberglass, I will replace it and will report if that changed the sound. Thanx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aadams Posted August 2, 2022 Report Share Posted August 2, 2022 I looked around the forum. All of the ADD project photos I saw had fiberglass. Wear rubber gloves in a well ventilated area to install 500 to 550 grams of fiberglass in large chunks, loosely throughout the cabinet, then cover the woofer hole with a sheet of crinolin fabric or thin polyfil quilt batting as a barrier. Put a slit in the barrier sheet to run the woofer wires through. The ARs after the ADDs were designed to use polyfil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aadams Posted August 2, 2022 Report Share Posted August 2, 2022 Read the later posts in this thread to learn about swapping Polyfil for Fiberglass in old AR cabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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