A Fair Price for AR-LST'S?......

[frankmarsi]

 

'As rational human beings, we should be clear about things that we can be clear about'.

Finally, someone offers a pair of AR-LST’s for the value they are truly worth.

Let’s not forget that for people like myself that have been using AR speakers for over 48  years and has been listening and training my ears to be able to discern what excellent sound actually sounds like for longer, I feel this price is warranted.

And not to sound like some others who defend what they own with such expressions as “IMO” or words such as; “my system sounds good to me and can match set-ups of higher price” , or silliness like “my $200. phono cartridge approaches and sounds as good as a $1500. to $4000. cartridge” or, don’t specify their amps power at watts per channel but, instead confusingly state total power is nothing more than ludicrous attempts at soothing their minds as their systems are likely of lesser caliber and accuracy.

Going back to when the AR-LST was first released in 1972, I myself was taken aback to realize that AR had actually produced a speaker that was and sounded more accurate than my new AR-3a’s I had recently bought in 1971.

The seller here says these are for the Mac275 amplifier. Well, that’s not nearly the case as these speakers require much more wattage. I speak from experience as I have attempted using my LST’s with other amps of lower power but, was sadly let down. My Phase LInear PL-400 at 400WPC@ 4 ohms is a worthy power source but, it too only nearly approached the necessary power to bring these speakers to where they perform their absolute best as they do better with almost double that power as is the case when using my Phase Linear PL-700 Series II at nearly 700 watts per channel @ 4 ohms.

Beyond the ridiculous offerings of AR-3’s and AR-1’s for large sums of money that they are certainly not worthy of, a pair of AR-LST’s are clearly worthy of the $4,000. to $4,500. asking price range as they are here. I've read of others owning LST's but they just won't admit to the speakers huge appetite for high wattage for some odd reason.

I recall when the AR-LST was first released in 1972, I dreamed about one day being able to purchase a pair but, unfortunately I was not financially able to at the young age of 22 years. When I finally acquired my present set of four LST's in the late 1980's, I was not only shocked that I did but, I still knew they required loads of power and that I had to  purchase bigger amplifiers at an additional expense. 

In the early 1990's, I used my PL-400 with one pair, and although they sounded really good (much better than my AR-3a’s did with the same amplifier), in the back of my mind I dreamt about the phenomenal sound they would offer with increased power, knowing twice that amount would surely be what they demanded.

Then, in 1990 I met a AR corporate big-wig from Britain at a stereo showroom in N.Y.C. highlighting AR’s newly released amplifier, pre-amp and speakers. He boasted of using four LST’s and two Phase Linear PL-700’s in 1974. Then and there, I knew I had a new goal in mind and I had to reach it if I wanted maximum listening pleasure.

Fast-forward to 2009 and I purchased two expertly rebuilt Phase Linear PL-700 Series II’s as I was certain the AR-LST would benefit from such massive power which I immediately experienced upon hooking them up. My earlier room’s size and acoustics at that time did not offer the best situation. For the ultimate listening experience it was easy to hear the difference of using more power as the AR-LST’s really opened up in terms of a more accurate and a completely satisfying sound experience in my new digs. The home I presently own is much more conducive to better sound and is almost approaching ideal in its potential, ‘ideal’ being a room designed around one’s system. The new room is much bigger and affords me the best these speakers are capable of.

Check here: Do AR speakers really sound that good? ** MORE NEW VIDEO**

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AR-LST-accoutic-reasearch-collectible-vintage-speaker-for-mc275/323929499338?hash=item4b6bb3e6ca:g:n7MAAOSwwb9djV4D

[nefertem]

Hi Frank i made a audio recording on my samsung s9 sitting in my sweetspot my system consist of a AR Turtable 80s with a Sumiko arm and A pair of AR 93s Mod with Vifa tweeters and scanspeak midrange's i will post some photos later i just realised when recording this my microphone on my phone was facing me so that is why the recording sound like that l will try a different Album later 

Lonnie_Listen_Smith_sd.m4a

Edited September 28, 2019 by nefertem
Added a sentence

[newandold]

I think that’s the right number for LST’s in such fine condition.

That number is right about where I was back in 2012, when bidding on  a pair of Roy Allison’s IC 20’s.

Always I compare the values of those two systems that RA had his hands on.

I’ve yet to have the chance to hear the LST and be able to judge the differences for myself.

 

Bill

[frankmarsi]

 AR-LST's are very demanding about placement, even more so than regular 'box' speakers, placement is paramount and more so than other conventional speakers.

Many of the set-ups I've seen here tell me the listener is not getting their full level of enjoyment, in fact most I've seen are incorrectly set-up.

The first two rooms I had them in caused them too suffer to a degree. It wasn't until I had them in the room they're in presently have they bloomed into their full glory. In fact they've never sounded as good as they do now, few understand the level of high-quality sound these are capable of until they've been properly placed in a room. However, I have learned early on like all acoustic suspension speakers,  placement is critical and especially so with the 'LST'.

When I relocated to where I am now, I was especially excited about how they would sound. I knew a rectangular room that afforded me a free 'front-wall' was the key. And although initially I tried placing them 3/4 into the room before I cleared the front wall,  their sound was less than  acceptable and their bass-response was at best dreadful. The 'front-wall' with long converging side walls assisted greatly and proved ultimately necessary.

Many non-cognoscenti do not realize this, thus they don't realize this speaker's full capability of stunning bass. Why they offer more bass response than a AR-3a has been enigmatic for me all these years but, why question greatness?  Their 'huge' quality of sound output is simply sublime. So much so, that I am truly grateful I own them and that I finally have them in the type of room they demand. I seek no other speaker for my listening pleasure. And that's a fact, jack!  So, I'm not certain if I own them or,  they own me.

So, I say to you Bill and all, when you do have a opportunity to listen to the 'AR-LST' be aware of set-up and placement otherwise you may be sorely disappointed. And of course, as always, the requisite high power amplification is just as important. All the while it must be in mind that 'far-field' listening is what their design also demands.

So yes, they are truly fussy but, isn't anything else in life that's truly worth it seem to be?

P.S. I am not a casual listener, and I approve of this message.

FM

 

[newandold]

2 hours ago, frankmarsi said:

I find AR-LST's can be fussy about placement, even more so than regular 'box' speakers. Placement is paramount and more so than with conventional speakers.

Many of the set-ups I've seen here tell me the listener is not getting their full level of greatness, in fact most I've seen are incorrectly set-up.

The first two rooms I had them in caused them too suffer to a degree. It wasn't until I had them in the room they're in presently in have they bloomed into their full glory. However, I have learned early on like all acoustic suspension speakers,  placement is critical and especially so with the 'LST'.

When I relocated to where I am now, I was especially excited about how they would sound. I knew a rectangular room that afforded me a free 'front-wall' was the key. And although initially I tried placing them 3/4 into the room before I cleared the front wall,  their sound was less than  acceptable and their bass-response was at best dreadful. The 'front-wall' with long converging side walls assisted greatly and proved ultimately necessary.

Many non-cognoscenti do not realize this, thus they don't realize this speaker's full capability of stunning bass. Why they offer more bass response than a AR-3a has been enigmatic for me all these years but, why question greatness?  Their 'huge' quality of sound output is simply sublime. So much so, that I am truly grateful I own them and that I finally have them in the type of room they demand. I seek no other speaker for my listening pleasure. And that's a fact, jack!  So, I'm not certain if I own them or,  they own me.

So, I say to you Bill and all, when you do have a opportunity to listen to the 'AR-LST' be aware of set-up and placement otherwise you may be sorely disappointed. And of course, as always, the requisite high power amplification is just as important. All the while it must be in mind that 'far-field' listening is what their design also demands.

So yes, they are truly fussy but, isn't anything else in life that's truly worth it seem to be?

P.S. I am not a casual listener, and I approve of this message.

FM

 

Then, the Ebay advertisement photos, must make you cringe just a bit. 

The distance from the side walls is good but too much gear in the corners choking off the reflective effects of the systems.

I started with the Allison:One  in 1977 and have had the opportunity to test every placement option of the non box, prism (or semi) within reason and the design parameters.

I found 3 to 4 feet away from an unobstructed corner is cruicial to get the best out of them.

Optimization of the bass is much different, when comparing the LST to the A1, or IC20, as the latter are floor standing systems.

 

Bill

[lakecat]

AR stated in their literature....get them up high and AGAINST the wall...just like a recording studio...because that was what they made for. Seeing these on speaker stands makes me cringe.

I experimented with mine and put them at 65" high and three inches from back wall....(couldn't get them any closer due to window)...and they are about six-seven foot apart. Hooked up to a McIntosh 2205 w/ MX-117 pre that both are recapped. 

It sounds fantastic with very airy mids, deep bass, and voices that are very clear. A top notch speaker.....but...

The negatives with value is the very difficult way to ship these...freight...which is expensive. The other is having to get them up high as they are heavy beasts so placement is difficult.

[ar_pro]

2 hours ago, lakecat said:

Hooked up to a McIntosh 2205 w/ MX-117 pre that both are recapped. 

Man, I love that amplifier; it must sound fantastic with the LST. ☺️

Frank: regarding your comment on hearing more bass response from the LST than the AR-3a, is your opinion based upon a single pair of LST speakers, or your triple-stacked LST system?

[frankmarsi]

Hi ar_pro,  My determination of more ‘bass’ was also confirmed by a couple of knowledgable

and notable members on this site a number of years back so, I’m not simply talking through my hat as some do. Nor do I speak from behind the ‘key-board-shield’ as many do across the internet.

In fact when I first realized there was more bass response, I was quite impressed myself as I still am today, many years later. Mind you it isn't a worlds apart difference but, it sounds slightly bigger and with more capacity.

So yes ar_pro in terms of more bass my opinion is based on using a single pair of LST’s like I did in 1990, later adding a second set on top. I never did install a third set of LST’s on top of my double set as “AR surround” once jokingly suggested I do. Though I could as I have three matching PL-700 Series II amplifiers. However, the third amp is presently powering my set of AR-9’s which I hardly use. I’m simply too enamored with the double LST’s. If you could only hear the ‘system’, you’d know why.

[ar_pro]

Yeah, my mistake - I meant double-stack, but for some reason typed triple.

Years ago, Tom T. wrote about increased bass output from doubling-up on the AR-3a (2 pairs), but I'd never read anything about increased or extended LF output from a solo pair of LST systems. 

AR claimed better LF response for the AR-9, but I wasn't aware the LST could improve on the AR-3a in that regard - very cool.