DavidR Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 Who is currently supplying the best surrounds for AR drivers? Roll width and compliance is key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR surround Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 Although my handle is "AR Surround," I'm afraid I can't help you David. ? Did you try vintage-ar? I know that the surrounds Larry supplies are the correct roll and compliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aadams Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 Speaker Works in Eugene Oregon has a good reputation and a comparatively substantial web presence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupidhead Posted September 2, 2019 Report Share Posted September 2, 2019 looneytune2001 on ebay has had the correct foams in the past but it has been a while since I have looked filled filet for boston acoustic 10" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lARrybody Posted September 2, 2019 Report Share Posted September 2, 2019 Check with Rick. rcobb@tampabay.rr.com AKA looneytune2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted September 2, 2019 Report Share Posted September 2, 2019 I've been happy with SpeakerWorks and also hear good things about Rick Cobb. SpeakerWorks people are very helpful. Be aware a "kit" consists of one surround and some white glue for $8.95 (for 8" foam). You can also buy just the foam and they have dust caps and shims but those must be bought separately. They also have nitrile adhesive for plastic cones. Kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomK Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 I purchased a set of surrounds for 10" woofers in my LST-2's from both looneytune2001 and vintage-ar and the foam surrounds were precisely the same. I will say that looneytune2001 and vintage-ar supply different types of adhesive and recommend different ways of centering the voice coil, but I think it's one of those tomato/to-mah-toe type discussions. Vintage-ar also provides new dust caps and shims. Either person's approach will make you successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 22 minutes ago, TomK said: looneytune2001 and vintage-ar supply different types of adhesive and recommend different ways of centering the voice coil, but I think it's one of those tomato/to-mah-toe type discussions. I don't think it's quite "tomato/tomahtoe". IMHO the white glue is MUCH easier to use and unless you are re-foaming plastic woofers that's the way to go. It can be smeared with your fingers and any squeeze-out is easily cleaned with a wet paper towel. And if necessary you can pull the foam off before the glue is fully dried, wash it off and try again. The woofers on my 91s had been sloppily re-foamed using the nitrile glue and I ended up sending them to Millersound to be re-done. Photo below is "before". If that solvent-based glue gets on the cone or the roll I don't think you can get it off without making an even worse mess. I did use the nitrile glue on some TSW series woofers and it's nasty stuff. As for the centering method, some voice coils are more forgiving than others. Shimming not only assures perfect centering, it also makes it easy to position the cone up or down while gluing the surround. A tip from M-Sound: Before gluing the new dust cap (or the old, hinged dust cap), sweep around the voice coil with one of the shims and then vacuum it to be sure there is no dust or debris in there. Oh. And a tip from me: Count the shims and remove all of them before you glue the dust cap on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomK Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 20 hours ago, JKent said: I don't think it's quite "tomato/tomahtoe". IMHO the white glue is MUCH easier to use and unless you are re-foaming plastic woofers that's the way to go. It can be smeared with your fingers and any squeeze-out is easily cleaned with a wet paper towel. And if necessary you can pull the foam off before the glue is fully dried, wash it off and try again. Fair enough. I didn't quite appreciate the white glue until I worked with it and I liked its forgiving nature (at your recommendation). The only panic reaction I had is the glue takes a bit of time to sent, and the foam kept popping off the speaker cone, but that also gave me the time to get it into the correct "notch" on cone and it took about 15 minutes of gently rubbing my fingers around the foam to keep it sticking until it set. I watched a baseball game while I kept pushing down the foam. I've seen videos of experts online who managed to nail it with the fast setting glue, but these were guys who have done it repeatedly for decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 hour ago, TomK said: the glue takes a bit of time to sent, and the foam kept popping off the speaker cone I think the best method is to coat both surfaces and then let the white glue set up a bit, the way you would do with contact cement, then it will grab right away. Or don't wait and that gives more time to fine-tune the positioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomK Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 11 minutes ago, JKent said: I think the best method is to coat both surfaces and then let the white glue set up a bit, the way you would do with contact cement, then it will grab right away. Or don't wait and that gives more time to fine-tune the positioning. The benefits of experience. I also appreciated that if I screwed up the foam and let it dry, the white glue makes it absolutely trivial to remove it and try again. As I said in the LST-2 thread, the glue that AR used to attach the foam to speaker frame was a nightmare to get off; it required some heavy-duty chemicals and a lot of elbow grease (all while avoiding touching the edge of the cone). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankmarsi Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 RE: removing old glue. Use regular 70 % rubbing alcohol, makes it easy-peasy. Use a dull-ish butter knife to scrape it off into paper-towels as it's sticky and messy. I usually get the masonite as clean as possible for best adhesion on new foam. Using less white glue is the key as it will take longer to 'set' if too much is used. Spread with fingers or swab and apply to both sides. Apply glue to cone side of foam first, then to cone edge, let both sides become 'tacky' before moving on. Drying 20 to 40 minutes when using thin amount of glue, then apply to underside of foam outer rim of cone, and then apply glue to basket masonite surface. Let it get tacky then slowly press cone onto outer rim of basket and slowly press as you rotate the basket. There's really no need to use so many clothes pins when using a small amount of glue (white glue is best) while slowly rotating basket equally pressing down on foam edge with fingers and or a dull edge of a flat surface nylon/plastic tool. Out of the 20 or so refoams I've completely with-out shimming. I agree using shims is the fool proof method and if inexperienced it may be the best way, cutting that dust-cap with an X-actoi knife can be daunting and can render sloppy appearance if poorly done. I've tried a few different foam suppliers and have found 'Parts-Express' to be the best and they supply 2-3 different dust-caps of different sizes, along with swabs and glue. The best way is to be patient and work slowly. When work is finished carefully check that cone is free floating by equally applying a few fingers while pressing up and down on cone using equal pressure at the time all around. I also use a 1.5 volt double 'A' battery to check cone's motion and carefully feel and listen for any voice-coil rubbing. For cones that sag down due to a sagging 'spider' I've shoved plastic bags from the super-market under the cone to facilitate easier conditions and to keep the cone steady. Afterwards slowly/carefully pulling out plastic bag. If necessary, I've cut the plastic screen material AR used to keep fiber-glass out and then re-glue screening back in. Cut screen along basket's metal area and not directly into screen. This was necessary due to a sagging spider and the only time I've to use a couple clamps/clothes pins to hold cone in place. Install woofers back in cabinet the following day, hook-up and play a piece of music to see if all is O.K. but, don't get too loud until two days later. I've had the misfortune to buy a set of 12 AR cones that were freshly refoamed but, the previous owner had glued the foams to the underside of the cone's rim and that was time consuming to undo and replace properly. Good luck and if all is well, you can enjoy your accomplishment while listening. FM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lARrybody Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 6 hours ago, JKent said: The woofers on my 91s had been sloppily re-foamed using the nitrile glue and I ended up sending them to Millersound to be re-done. Do you have a picture of that woofer after Bill got through with them? I recently used the fast tack white craft glue from Aleene's and was quite pleased with the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidR Posted September 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 For what it's worth Vintage AR's adhesive is toluene based (toluol, methylbenzene) and can be used to soften it for removal. Wear gloves and use in a well ventilated area. Best to use a mask; and not the dust kind > some dust types have carbon impregnated into them and can be used vs nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 15 hours ago, lARrybody said: Do you have a picture of that woofer after Bill got through with them? I recently used the fast tack white craft glue from Aleene's and was quite pleased with the results. Yeah--I think Aleene's is essentially the same stuff as the white speaker glue. I've used it. Before & after pics of the woofers are in this thread: http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?/topic/6565-ar91-restoration-project/&tab=comments#comment-88955 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 hour ago, JKent said: ...in this thread... Off topic, but......I just re-read that thread of your AR-91 restoration, and I see in an edited comment that you have soured on Erse caps - - what happened here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidR Posted September 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 Aleen's is easy to use and allows max adjustment time BUT I've always worried what it might be like to remove when that time comes for another surround. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 58 minutes ago, ra.ra said: Off topic, but......I just re-read that thread of your AR-91 restoration, and I see in an edited comment that you have soured on Erse caps - - what happened here? I think there are better choices among affordable capacitors. The Erse film caps have short leads which could be a PITA (unless the new ones have improved in that area). Erse NPEs "seem" cheaply made. I like Carli or Dayton (5%) film and Bennic or Dayton NPEs. I also use Audyn or other reasonably priced caps. I'd like to try the Mundorf NPEs. I no longer use PE's Lelon standard polarized caps. My technician recommends Panasonic for quality and reliability so that's all I use when recapping amps. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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