sarals Posted February 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2019 Today I worked on one of the AR-5's. I decided to put the speaker together that the woofer that I refoamed only lived in. I've yet to measure the Fs of the woofer I replaced the spider on, and I want to do that before I put that woofer back in the cabinet. I bought a pair of the HiVi Q1R tweeters, along with a pair of 0.05mh inductors to place in parallel with the tweeters. I'm using those tweeters for now, the original pair will be going to @Chris1this1. I worked on one speaker today, tomorrow I'll do the other. I started by cleaning the controls with Deoxit, because I wanted avoid removing them if possible, and that worked! Thank goodness. Next, I replaced the capacitors in the crossover. I decided not to measure the old capacitors, I just wholesale replaced them. Then I prepped the HiVi tweeter. I soldered the inductor across the terminal. Then, I put the tweeter in the cabinet cutout. I ran the signal wires through the bottom mounting hole, and attached them to the front terminal of the cabinet. I replaced the electrical tape to the midrange driver, and added tape here and there to clean things up. I tested the two drivers, they worked, and I checked the level controls once again. They were fine. Then the stuffing went back in, and then the woofer. I hooked it up to my Audible Illusions/SCS MOSFET 150 preamp/power amp pair, put on a CD, and started listening. OMG... this AR-5 is in a totally different class than an AR-2ax! The AR-5 has better bass, tighter and lower, with close to contemporary performance through the midrange, and the HiVi tweeter blends beautifully and is very articulate. Am I impressed!! I'm looking forward to putting the second one back together tomorrow. I am really looking forward to hearing the pair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarals Posted February 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2019 Here's another photo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aadams Posted February 24, 2019 Report Share Posted February 24, 2019 29 minutes ago, sarals said: The AR-5 has better bass, tighter and lower, with close to contemporary performance through the midrange, I have been waiting for news on your project. The bass should be identical when placed at the same spot within the room. If the 5 sounds better then the 2ax may have a problem. The midrange is as good as anything AR ever made and should be close to unbearably bright at critical listening distances when set to full increase. Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarals Posted February 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Aadams said: I have been waiting for news on your project. The bass should be identical when placed at the same spot within the room. If the 5 sounds better then the 2ax may have a problem. The midrange is as good as anything AR ever made and should be close to unbearably bright at critical listening distances when set to full increase. Adams @Aadams, yes, agree. My 2ax's are in a less than ideal placement right now. You're right about the midrange, it is a bit forward, for sure. Much different than the 2ax's. About the bass - it seems better controlled, but I chalk some of that up to the lower crossover point to the midrange. I've listened to some "bass taxing" program material since my initial post, and they certainly do not go any lower than the 2ax's (bottom octave is just not there). One of the things that I've noticed through omission is how smooth they are. Yes, I need to adjust the mid level (I will when the second speaker is up and running), but from top to (their) bottom, there is a sense of ease, nothing sticks out. They don't beam, either. So far, I quite like them (it!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genek Posted February 24, 2019 Report Share Posted February 24, 2019 You should put a bit of sealant on the hole in the tweeter flange that the wire is passing through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted February 24, 2019 Report Share Posted February 24, 2019 If you look at the crossover schematic for the AR-5 you might notice that the woofer inductor is much larger than in the 2-ax which provides much more baffle step. I'm not surprised that they sound so much better. I've spoken before about how I dislike the 2-ax so again not surprised by your observations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarals Posted February 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, genek said: You should put a bit of sealant on the hole in the tweeter flange that the wire is passing through. I will. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarals Posted February 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Pete B said: If you look at the crossover schematic for the AR-5 you might notice that the woofer inductor is much larger than in the 2-ax which provides much more baffle step. I'm not surprised that they sound so much better. I've spoken before about how I dislike the 2-ax so again not surprised by your observations. I noticed that inductor, Pete. The 2ax's were built to a price point, I'm sure. Even so, they have the same overall character of the AR-5's, the voicing is very similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted February 24, 2019 Report Share Posted February 24, 2019 Built to a price point yes of course and not a very good optimization IMO. There are 10" woofer systems that reach to the low 40s, and in the 2ax you pay for a 3way, Steve has also commented about the 2ax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lARrybody Posted February 24, 2019 Report Share Posted February 24, 2019 Before 9's took their place I had 5's stacked on top of some 2ax's. They both are excellent speakers, but where the 5's walk away from the 2ax's is in the dome midranges. Vocals really stand out along with imaging of many instruments. The bass on both are solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarals Posted February 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2019 One of the things I love about audio is the differing opinions,. What I find about that, when a piece is good - neutral, gets most right - most everyone agrees. I have had no experience with classic AR speakers in almost 50 years. I never heard the 2ax's before I acquired my current pair. I never heard AR-5's, ever. I wasn't even aware of them until I came to this forum. I've had many a speaker system since my college years, and - here it is again - what strikes me about the speakers I really liked is how similar they sounded. It seems to me that the current crop of well regarded ('bookshelf") speakers are voiced very similarly (and to a degree that I think is right). They're also very articulate and open, presenting nuance, as well as solid, clean bass. I kind of wish AR had extended the bass in their 10 inch systems (agree, Pete). Based on what I recall of my beloved 1972 Advent Loudspeakers (larger), they could have. I have no idea why AR did things the way they did, but I have a suspicion cost was a factor. They developed, what, two midrange drivers, the dome used in their top tier speakers, and the cone used in the 2ax and the 4a? Spread the wealth, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genek Posted February 24, 2019 Report Share Posted February 24, 2019 History probably has a lot to do with the AR-2ax, which started out as a 2-way speaker with a pair of cross-fired cone tweeters. In its final form, the 2ax is really still a 2-way speaker with a supertweeter added on, because other than the addition of the HF driver, its crossover design didn't really evolve much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarals Posted February 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2019 12 hours ago, genek said: History probably has a lot to do with the AR-2ax, which started out as a 2-way speaker with a pair of cross-fired cone tweeters. In its final form, the 2ax is really still a 2-way speaker with a supertweeter added on, because other than the addition of the HF driver, its crossover design didn't really evolve much. "Value added", perhaps, with the supertweeter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarals Posted February 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2019 I noticed these on eBay yesterday. They look quite nice, and they come with original accessories. Someone may get a good deal! https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-ACOUSTIC-RESEARCH-SPEAKERS-AR-5/233141913361?hash=item3648574711 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted February 24, 2019 Report Share Posted February 24, 2019 The Boston Acoustics A-100 for a well thought out 10" 2-way reaches into the low 40s on bass: http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?/topic/10477-boston-acoustics-a100-versions/&tab=comments#comment-123006 And the A-150 for a 10" 3-way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarals Posted February 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2019 This morning I completed the second speaker. I was going to determine Fs on the woofer, but I couldn't find a 10 ohm resistor. Nothing even close! So, that did not get done. I proceeded with the assembly, reasonably sure the woofer would be fine. I cleaned the pots with Deoxit, with success! The caps were all replaced, the HiVi tweeter was prepared with the 0.05mH inductor, and installed. I hooked up a source and tested the pots. They worked just fine. The stuffing went back into the cabinet, and then the woofer was installed. Another test was performed, using interstation noise from my old Harmon Kardon 630 receiver. Nothing seemed to be amiss. I let the speaker reproduce that noise at a low level for about a half hour. Then, I set the both of the AR-5's up, driving them with my Audible Illusions/SCS MOSFET power amp combo. That was about ten o'clock this morning. It is 4:40 PM as I write this. I stopped listening about an hour ago. I ran the gamut - rock, folk, new age, electronic, brass, opera, classical, and finished up with some selections from the Stereophile Test CD2. The sources were CD and vinyl. The speaker setup was not optimal, but not bad. The speakers are about seven feet apart, and nine feet from my listening position. They're sitting on top of Small Advents. which are on the floor. That brings the AR-5's to ear height. They're a little more than three feet into the room. Impressions? Right away I liked what I heard. I needed to reduce the level of the midrange, turning the controls down to 3/4. That midrange certainly can be forward! Once I did that, I settled in. Rather than gush (I sure want to), I'll keep it concise. These speakers, in spite of their lack of low bass, are among the finest speakers I've ever heard. Yes, they are. I have heard better, but "better" is a matter of degree. The AR-5's are very refined, very well balanced tonally, and are ruthless in their objectivity. They give you what is on the recording. They render voice with a very natural timbre, and piano (which many good speakers don't quite get right) is stunning. They reveal inner detail, they're very nuanced, very detailed - but not glaringly by any means. There is nothing dishonest about the way they image - the sound stage can be wide, or it can be narrow, whatever the source intended. They can layer depth beautifully. They portray the space the recording was made in as well as anything I've ever heard. They just make music. Beautifully! I'm going to be listening to these things for some time to come. I'd post a photo of them, but this site isn't letting me do that right now ("error processing upload"). All of you fine folks who said I'd like the AR-5's? You were certainly right! To think these speakers are almost 50 years old.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted February 25, 2019 Report Share Posted February 25, 2019 Great write-up, great photo documentation.... a real pleasure to follow this restoration project. Will be interested to hear comparative impressions with re-built original tweeters. Still, I think these AR-5's would sound even better with flat dust caps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarals Posted February 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 hour ago, ra.ra said: Great write-up, great photo documentation.... a real pleasure to follow this restoration project. Will be interested to hear comparative impressions with re-built original tweeters. Still, I think these AR-5's would sound even better with flat dust caps. @ra.ra, I'll take that ding, with honor!! Maybe that's were the bottom octave is, tied up in those flat dust caps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted February 25, 2019 Report Share Posted February 25, 2019 23 minutes ago, sarals said: Maybe that's were the bottom octave is, tied up in those flat dust caps? We all know about "flat" response curves, and since these all originate with the woofer at the LF end of the audio spectrum, you may be onto something new here! The excellent documentation in this thread and your good humor are much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarals Posted February 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2019 12 minutes ago, ra.ra said: We all know about "flat" response curves, and since these all originate with the woofer at the LF end of the audio spectrum, you may be onto something new here! The excellent documentation in this thread and your good humor are much appreciated. You are very kind!!! That means a lot to me. I've got more photos to share, but the software here isn't letting me - I keep getting a "failure to process - 200" error. When I get that cleared up, I'll put some more up. @ra.ra, you folks are terrific! Thank you so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarals Posted February 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2019 Recorded with my iPhone XR. https://www.facebook.com/sarals/videos/10218307775596872/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarals Posted March 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 I am SO enjoying these speakers! They are so involving, so immersive. I'm past the point of marveling about their age and "antiquated" engineering, and simply enjoying them. Which is very easy to do. Fifty years of speaker "growth" and "design advances" and "new ideas" (plus Thiel/Small) mean nothing when I press "play" on my Marantz SA8260, turn off the lights, and sit back. These AR-5's make the room disappear, replacing it with the room in which the recording was made. They simply make great sounds, and they are astounding in that regard. The cabinet edges aren't beveled, the drivers aren't time aligned, the cone material isn't some exotic combination of materials, the magnets aren't made from unobtainium, the woofer baskets are stamped steel and not cast....so what? AR did it right with the materials and knowledge of their day, and these speakers are a testament to how good that old fashioned engineering and great ears were back in the day. Respect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted March 19, 2019 Report Share Posted March 19, 2019 Sara, Love your write-up, your journey and your comments. Glad you're enjoying these. Are you still using the Hi-Vi tweets? I'm curious to know your impressions of Hi-Vi vs the Chris1 rebuilds. I'm actually wondering if there is any discernible difference at all. -Kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarals Posted March 20, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2019 On 3/19/2019 at 2:18 PM, JKent said: Sara, Love your write-up, your journey and your comments. Glad you're enjoying these. Are you still using the Hi-Vi tweets? I'm curious to know your impressions of Hi-Vi vs the Chris1 rebuilds. I'm actually wondering if there is any discernible difference at all. -Kent Hi Kent! Yes, the HiVi tweeters are still in use. I haven't sent the originals to Chris, yet. I'm curious, too, as to how they'll sound in comparison to the HiVi's, which I honestly consider to be very good. They certainly don't do anything to the sound that is negative! I'm thinking they may either stay in the AR-5's or go to the AR-2ax's IF the original tweeters warrant the exchange. Thank you for the kind words! I have to admit that I haven't had this much fun or been so enthralled by a piece of audio gear in quite some time. That's saying something! ~~Sara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerglide Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 HI @sarals just wondering if you ever had the rebuild done to those original tweeters, keen on any feedback as per @JKent interest. I'm about to put the HiVi's and mods in my 2ax's and may have my OG's looked at depending the HiVi performance and any feedback here. regards Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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