Aadams

Tweeters yes. Mid range no unless some recent development.

Are you sure they are 58LS and not 58S? Can you provide an image of the dome tweeter? Front and back.

Your amp is a good match. It is not in the category of vintage gear that is so old as to be questionable. If you don't hear or suspect a problem now there is no need to change. Focus on cartridges and turntables if you are a vinyl fan.

I read the specs and features for SVS 3000 unit and its app not long after your first post. The amount of user control is impressive and if true it is a big step beyond what I have seen previously. After the initial excitement, powered sub boxes in a music system have come to be a compromise at best, for me, but this looks like a good value for the money and worth a try if the dealer has a reasonable returns policy.

Subs have a reputation for being difficult to integrate seamlessly into dedicated music systems. Try to purchase from a dealer that has a generous returns policy.

So how does it sound? Have you compared it to an AR12 inch 3 way?

Excellent! Crossover? active or passive? Freq? slope? Bi amped? Are those ADS 2ways?

The case for 40hz. If you don’t listen to recordings of Dubstep, Hip Hop, Large Pipe Organ, or special effects movie soundtracks, your chances of playing any recorded music containing a bass note below 40hz could be close to zero. There are only 30 musical instruments that can sound a note below 40hz. Most of them are esoteric, near unicorn status, and are occasionally used for the odd solo part in large orchestras or almost exclusively in small wind ensembles. For example, a contra bass flute almost never appears except as support for an all flute ensemble. When was the last time you heard recording of a full range flute septet? There are only two commonly used instruments that can sound a musical note below 40hz…..the Piano and 5 string electric bass. A concert grand piano has a 27.5hz A string. The five string electric bass has a 30hz B string. If you listen to Jazz/Rock Fusion, it is not uncommon to hear the 5 string bass sounding below 40hz but the most commonly used bass guitar is the four string, which is standard tuned to 41.5hz and is sometimes downtuned to around 38hz to avoid an open E string at 41.5hz, the same as the standard Double Bass/Upright Bass used in Acoustic Jazz groups and Symphony Orchestras. Jazz and Classical piano virtuosos, playing solo, frequently hit notes below 40hz but when supporting a group, the piano generally stays away from string bass territory to keep from blurring the bass line. If you don’t listen to Solo Piano or Jazz Fusion there are virtually no instruments used in any modern music genre that play below 40hz. In every wind and stringed musical instrument, the fundamental frequency of any note triggers as series of higher harmonics and overtones that define the instrument, creating a unique sound signature. Usually, the fundamental frequency predominates but as frequency descends below 40hz, our ability to hear low frequency sounds diminishes and the second harmonic tone becomes prominent. So, when the hammer strikes the 27.5hz A string on a grand piano, you may possibly feel the 27.5hz fundamental but what you hear is the second harmonic at 55hz and the overtones from many higher strings that have been triggered as sympathetic vibrations. The brain perceives the presence of 27.5hz even though the harmonic series beginning at 55hz predominates. So a speaker limited to 40hz or even 50hz can sound strong at 27.5hz.

By what objective measure was the 3a NOT an upgrade to the 3? Consumer Reports never accounted for sonic differences caused by the span of control across starkly different crossover bands. Notably the 3 has zero control for anything below 1000hz and has much lower power response than a 3a between 500-1000hz. If the comparison were done properly they should have sounded virtually identical at any reasonable listening angle using identical placement. It is unlikely that Allison would have sullied the reputation of AR with an inferior product posed as an "upgrade". Following is an interesting quote from Roy Allison in a Stereophile interview that I have never seen at CSP or anywhere else. Lander: You began corresponding with the speaker expert Dick Small when he was working on his PhD thesis in Australia, and maintained that relationship. In fact, you played the first pair of production Model Ones for him. Tell us that story. Allison: He and his colleague Neville Thiele were making a speaking tour of the United States and had dinner with Nancy and me and our children. So after dinner we sat them down and played some music for them on Model Ones. Their response was very polite but unenthusiastic. It turned out that they were used to hearing speakers, characteristic of the Commonwealth, that had very precise, pinpoint imaging. The imaging of Model Ones was satisfactory to almost everyone who heard them, but not to people as enthusiastic as they were about the concept. I had emphasized dispersion in order to re-create as best I could the performance-hall ambience. I don't want to put up with a sweet spot, and I'd rather have less dramatically precise imaging but a close simulation of what you hear in a concert hall in terms of envelopment. For that, you need reverberant energy broadcast at very wide angles from the loudspeakers, so the bulk of the energy has a chance to do multiple reflections before it reaches your ear. I think pinpoint imaging has to do with synthetically generated music, not acoustic music—except perhaps for a solo instrument or a solo voice, where you might want fairly sharp localization. For envelopment, you need widespread energy generation. https://www.stereophile.com/content/glorious-time-ars-edgar-villchur-and-roy-allison-allison-part-2

Here you are Roy. I had to go into my Junk archives. On examination the photos show the driver faceplate is screwed to the magnet faceplate which is glued to the magnet. The glued front and back plates of the magnet would not be noticed in a proper mechanical disassembly but thanks to ebay deeper insights are available into how a 200044-0 mid was actually assembled.

I speculate the unit was damaged in shipment or the seller reattached the magnet before shipping. I had the same thing happen on my last ebay speaker shipment several years ago. A 58s cabinet took a big hit in transit that broke the glue joint and separated the magnet from the baffle mounted diaphragm. The magnet could be reattached using just the strong magnetic force, slid into mechanical alignment and appear to be properly installed but would only make a muffled sound. I think it would require some specialized equipment and knowledge to restore it to proper operation. I purchased a replacement but still have the broken one JIC. Adams

Member @JKentsometimes has new replacement pots for sale. You can private message him or wait for him to see this thread. You can also use lpads with parallel resistors which you can find referenced in many threads on this forum and discussed in the AR3a Restoration guide. If you have questions they will be answered.

1. In Addition to DavidR's gasket advice from above. Assuming both speakers are operating correctly, there will not be a startling difference in bass on most recordings. To best compare both models, they should be placed identically in relation to the listening position and reflective boundaries. 2. 50 Watts at 8 ohms is plenty 3. Did you check polarity by looking at the wires or with a D cell battery? D cell is more accurate if the speakers were repaired by someone else. 4. Are the woofers identical AR woofers? AR they even AR woofers? Post images of the speakers with grills off.

Yes. I remember reading somewhere that his preference was for a 4 way dipole using active crossovers and an amplifier on every driver, with very specific placement and somewhat large minimum requirements for room size. I have no doubt they could sound good. In my statement above I was referring to Section 5 on Test Recordings. Linkwitz seems to have come to the same conclusion as Villchur and Allison that live performance is the standard by which loudspeakers should be compared but there is a conundrum which is explained in paragraph 2 of that section. It can and has been argued that it takes better recordings to improve the loudspeakers, but it also takes loudspeakers to know which recordings are better [7, Chapter 2]. The process can become a circle of confusion if there is no sonic reference outside of it. This reference must be the live performance, our perception and memory of it. Thus the listeners in the proposed tests should have familiarity with unamplified sound, with live acoustic music. Also the human voice in different environments, single or in groups, is familiar to everyone and recordings of it should be part of the listening tests

Looking for a pair (2) of crossovers for 98ls or 98lsi. Adams

The for sale/wanted section here would be a good place to begin. A lot of enthusiasts in your part of the country.

Here is a half baked analysis. I am fairly certain the cost of materials to make the switch is no more, but probably less than, the cost of veneer. BUT If you make the switch and don't like the result what will you do? Will you revert to status quo ante? What is the comprehensive cost of not getting a good result and reversing your work vs the cost of just purchasing veneer and making the EPI cabs pretty? Adams

So it is just wire between the amp and the driver terminals? Is it a 24db slope?

Pete B Are you saying the woofer you found is a drop in replacement in an AR enclosure? Or, does it need crossover help?

3a 575hz and 525hz This thread is drifting BUT the 3a vs 5 vs LST vs AR9 mid range clarity topic was aired out about three years ago. The AR3a is equal to the AR5 and AR9 in mid range clarity if it is optimally placed in relation to the listener’s position. For the 3 or 3a this means you start by recessing in a bookcase or a wall. Roy Allison wrote a paper explaining the problem after he left AR. Almost any other practical placement of a 10 octave, front facing, three way is a compromise and often results in mid range “suck out” due to cancellations from boundary reflections if the woofer is also reproducing mid-range frequencies. This research led to the Allison 1 and the AR9. Welcome Back Adams

Does this explain why the chart below appears to show a 24db/octave curve for the mid

Very Nice. Thanks to member Carlspeak and others the empirical evidence suggests this is generally true. I have 3as with Spragues and 3as with new Daytons, both with rebuilt tweeters and lpads. There is no practical difference in the sound. If you don't hear a problem now there is no reason to change the caps. The narrow tape will work ok.

Members @RoyC and @Chris1this1 repair the original 3a tweeter with three orange blobs around the dome base. You can send them a message.

It can make an audible difference if your speaker needs it. More importantly, the product from Vintage AR and member @RoyC is the only sealant for sale that will not cause long term damage to your cloth surround. It won't hurt to try it.

I agree with Giorgio. There is something odd about these woofers. I have examined the front baffle photo on three different monitors and it looks to me like the voice coil covers are concave, the surrounds are attached on the back side of the cone and are shiny like butyl rather than dull like foam. Tell me I am wrong please.