script56 Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Hello. Just acquired a pair of ar1 speakers. Both have altec 755a, but one cabinet has the smooth cone with cloth surround and the other has a ribbed cone with cloth surround and donut near dust cap. Any way this is factory or just possibly a unmatched pair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
script56 Posted October 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 FYI I'm referring to the AR WOOFERS, not the altec midranges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadetreehifi Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Hi Script56, I also just recently received a pair of AR-1's. There is a document on this forum's library called "restoring the AR3a," which includes pictures of the various iterations of the 3a woofers, some of which are ribbed, with cloth surrounds, and are fitted with a damping ring around the dustcap. Sounds like one of your woofers might be from a 3a. Also, there is this thread below on repairing AR-1 woofers which contains pictures of different styles of woofers from the AR-1 and AR-1w.http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=4398I'd be interested to see images of your speakers. My thread on restoring a pair of AR-1's is below, a work in progress.http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=7997 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Any way this is factory or just possibly a unmatched pair?Script,A belated Welcome!The AR-1 was sold as individual speakers, not stereo pairs, so any pair you have are likely to be "unmatched."You can wait for a more authoritative reply from Roy, John, Tom or one of the other real experts, but I'd say it's not that you have a 3a woofer, it's that AR used a 12" woofer that had a ribbed cone and a damping donut on the 1, 3 and early 3a. Later they used the smooth cone and cloth surround with no "donut." I don't know if they were still making the 1 then but your woofer may be original. Is that one a later SN? edit: I'm told the smooth cone came before the ribbed cone.The VERY earliest 1s used a smooth cone and a shallow ribbed surround (like the surrounds on your Altec speakers). See the photos of Tom Tyson's SN 0006 in the Library.Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthropologo Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Do you have a serial number for the speakers? As many have noted, AR 12" woofers seem to have been in a continual state of evolution.The below link contains an image of 12" woofer from S/N 3423 (July 1956)http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=7261&hl=austin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
script56 Posted October 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Yes serials are not very close for the pair. Also the grille was factory sealed (as hard as it was to remove) so I think it's just unmatched. Pics coming soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
script56 Posted October 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Nice to see a local Tennesseean on the forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
script56 Posted October 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Serials 9982 & 9468. Possibly far enough apart for one original woofer and a newer style woofer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
script56 Posted October 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 Here is a picture of the top. It looks to be unfinished. Does anyone know the original colors or finishes for AR1? Is it dark walnut (gloss finish), natural gloss and any others? I was thinking about staining this natural finish to a walnut. If so, I believe it would be correct to gloss, but leave the backs not glossed. Any info appreciated. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 Attached is an old document with reference to finishes for the AR-1W. From these options, and my own observations, I'd say you have the birch finish. Is this look consistent with both of your speakers?By far, oiled walnut seems to be the predominant finish for early AR's, with other finishes being less common and sometimes even more 'collectible'. You could always stain your speakers to a darker shade, but still they will never truly resemble real walnut (very different woodgrain structures). Still, just remember, it would then be extremely difficult to ever go from a darker to a lighter finish in the future.Just my two cents - - if I had a matching pair of AR-1's, I would concentrate on making them both appear similar (as well as each functioning properly), but I would also try to keep them as original as possible with regards to internal components, grille fabric, and cabinet wood species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 Looks to me like unfinished marine grade plywood cabinets. Might be birch.Tom?I'd try stripping with soy gel but if it were me I would not stain them. Maybe after stripping and VERY light sanding apply some flat or satin lacquer.Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
script56 Posted October 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 Yes from the info you all gave my best guess is unfinished pine. It may be birch but not much "yellow" color in my cabinets. If unfinished pine is what I have then to keep original I suppose it's best to just add a clear coat poly or just leave sanded and paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xmas111 Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 I don't think you want to paint or poly......IMHOMaybe a light stain then Howards Feed n Wax or other finishing coat. just my opinion.I'm sure more experienced others will have better ideas.John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
script56 Posted October 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 So are ar cabinets like Jbl cabinets where they are oiled only? I just thought from pictures online that ar poly'ed their cabinets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
script56 Posted October 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 Maybe watco natural would be good. Just looking to make original. These did have a coat of paint on them originally. Debating to use stripper sander or heat gun to remove rest of pAint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 I had never seen that nifty little sample card that Kent shared (via Tom), but now that it's been said, I agree with Kent that I would probably not stain these, either (at least never dark). If you could provide other views of the cabinet veneer, we could probably be more definitive on the species, but from what I've seen thus far, I'm sticking with birch.I think the subtle color shades of these digitized images can often be misconstrued or somewhat inaccurate, but I do think that the grain structure of the wood is normally accurately portrayed. Until I see more cabinet images that suggest the linear striated grain pattern more akin to pine, your image more clearly suggests the flat grain appearance associated with birch. If indeed the cabinets are birch, a neutral color (or lightly toned) oil certainly will not hurt the wood, but it will have nowhere near the visual impact that a penetrating oil has with a darker color, deeper-grained species (i.e. walnut, teak, mahogany). Not meaning to complicate matters, but extra food for thought nonetheless. It occurred to me while reading/writing here that I have been contemplating how best to refinish some blonde Heywood-Wakefield furniture from the 50's, and I've seen how many others have struggled between full authenticity and alternate aesthetic solutions. H-W furniture is normally solid maple, which is often indistinguishable from birch. http://werefinish.com/Heywood%20Wakefield%20Stain%20Choices%20Wheat%20or%20Champagne.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
script56 Posted October 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 Yes the side by side comparison you did and description helps to determine wood type. I'll look a bit closer at grain and get better pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 Maybe watco natural would be good. Just looking to make original. These did have a coat of paint on them originally. Debating to use stripper sander or heat gun to remove rest of pAint.No--AR never used poly. The "oiled walnut" was finished with boiled linseed oil and the best alternative today is Watco Danish Oil.Some early AR speakers were available in a lacquered finish. I have a nice pair of AR-2a's in lacquered mahogany.I don't know what finish was used on the Birch AR-1 but if it is birch I'd wait to get more opinions from members who have had actual experience with first-generation ARs.The "utility" cabinets were unfinished pine (plywood) and were for those who wanted to save a few bucks on nice speakers, or who wanted to do their own thing or who wanted them in a commercial auditorium setting where flat black paint is desirable.If yours are the utility cabs paint would not be unauthentic because many were painted. Some people did stain utility cabs with walnut stain but it never looked right (IMHO). I suggested sanding lightly and applying clear flat or satin lacquer to protect the wood from dirt, grease, moisture etc while retaining the appearance of the unfinished wood.I do think it is advisable to try to keep these as authentic as possible. They are collectible and if or your descendants ever decide to sell them the next owner will appreciate an authentic restoration. And you may find that you will too as you live with them and come to appreciate not only their sound but their historic significance.The AR-1, as you probably know by now, was THE speaker that revolutionized high fidelity. Prior to the AR-1 if you wanted good bass reproduction you needed to get Bozak speakers (or similar) the size of a refrigerator. Your AR-1 was "bookshelf" size compared to the competion.When Vilchur came up with his revolutionary design for the acoustic suspension speaker he was turned down by Bozak and other respected manufacturers because they thought he was a crackpot and if what he proposed were possible, their own engineers would have thought of it. It was Henry Kloss, one of Vilchur's students who badgered him into starting his own company in the '50s and the rest is history. Baby boomers like me never would have had true hi fi speakers in their dorm rooms if it weren't for AR and KLH.Anyway... my advice is try to keep it authentic.Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysontom Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 Here is a picture of the top. It looks to be unfinished. Does anyone know the original colors or finishes for AR1? Is it dark walnut (gloss finish), natural gloss and any others? I was thinking about staining this natural finish to a walnut. If so, I believe it would be correct to gloss, but leave the backs not glossed. Any info appreciated. Thanks! Do you have any other photos you can post showing this speaker and the other? I would like to see the front baffle, a side shot or two and the speaker-back panel showing the serial number and the input connectors. It is very likely that you have the utility cabinet in ponderosa pine, in which case the cabinets should either be left alone or painted -- not stained or oiled. Stain never looks right on pine. If you apply urethane or linseed oil or the like, the sap lines will stick out like a sore thumb. It is slightly possible that the cabinets are birch if these are very early versions, but we would need to see the serial number and more pictures of different parts of the cabinets. Thanks, --Tom Tyson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
script56 Posted October 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 I'm leaning more towards birch due to info on grain pattern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysontom Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 In one of the pictures (the third picture with cardboard at one side), the side panel appears to be Nova Ply, a MDF-like panel used in the 50s-60s, and the top panel appears to be plywood. Sometimes the cabinet-makers for AR mixed the panels, but not often. Based on this I would agree that the finish might be birch instead of plywood. --Tom Tyson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 In one of the pictures (the third picture with cardboard at one side), the side panel appears to be Nova Ply, a MDF-like panel used in the 50s-60s, and the top panel appears to be plywood. Sometimes the cabinet-makers for AR mixed the panels, but not often. Based on this I would agree that the finish might be birch instead of plywood. --Tom TysonIf it's birch what would the appropriate finish be?Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
script56 Posted October 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 Any tips on paint removal? Sand, chemical or heat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted October 19, 2013 Report Share Posted October 19, 2013 Really nice speakers, in fact quite rare, I believe - - they still have the rear control knobs, the paperwork, and at least one pristine Altec driver. However, your additional veneer pics are still a bit unconvincing and somewhat difficult to decipher, but I am still inclined to think birch more than pine. Just for additional veneer species comparison, attached are images of 3a's in birch and 4x's in pine.Regarding your latest question about "paint" removal, are you really talking about paint (with pigment), or is this question about removal of the original blonde transparent finish? If the former (paint), I think we'd need to see more pics again, but you can see my own before-and-after efforts on pine 4x's in the thread below. http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=7798&page=2If the latter (transparent), your pics have not yet been comprehensive enough to convince me that any re-finish is required. Nonetheless, it's hard to imagine that grande dame speakers this old are not in need of refreshing, so I suspect some cosmetic cabinet attention is in order. The Howard's RAF products have been praised here at length, and a natural or non-colored treatment of this product (with mild abrasive) may serve to dissolve the original finish and restore natural color and a smoother finish to the wood. As far as additional topical treatment, I'm not sure, but it would not surprise me if the birch option was finished in lacquer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted October 20, 2013 Report Share Posted October 20, 2013 Love trying to solve this puzzle.One thought about Howard RAF. Normally I endorse this product enthusiastically. BUT,,, if the cabinets are going to be refinished with lacquer or any other hard finish RAF is not appropriate. You can only use oil or wax over RAF.I recently "discovered" Minwax aerosol lacquer in rattle cans. VERY easy to use and it dries very quickly. Recout within 30 minutes. It dries so fast there is little opportunity for dust to settle on it. Use several coats: 3, 4, 5, even more. You can get it all done in an afternoon.Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.