New Large Advent brightness

[Horswispr]

Here's a review I wrote only a few years back of the NLA.

http://www.epinions.com/content_411298795140

I invite comments re: whether I captured their basic character well. I stand by my conclusion that they sound a little bright on some music, and I've since messed around a bit with trying to tame that brightness. No matter what I do, the basic character has remained pretty much the same. I put a 1 or 2 ohm resistor in series with the tweets. I moved the tweet crossover up a bit with slightly lower value capacitors. Both "experiments" yielded very slight changes, hardly audible.

Have others tried similar things?

[Carlspeak]

Were those additional resistors you tried in addition to the one's already installed? Exactly where in the circuit did you install them?

[Horswispr]

Yes, they were in addition to what was already there. I just floated them on the way to the tweeters. I realize that I could affect the overall transfer fuction (at least I think this is the case), especially if I used too high values, but I was just going for a very slight overall reduction of output from the tweeters. I generally operate my NLAs with the tweeter switch in reduce and the treble (NAD 1020 pre- with bass and treble controls) down a tad, maybe 10 o'clock.

[ironlake]

I always felt the original advents had more of a harsh violin or string sound than I was used to with my ar 4x;s and ar 2ax,s. I sold my 2ax for lack of deep bass for organ recordings and did not play allot of symphonic music as I found them to give listening fatique.

I know I was into stereophyle and high end audio at the time. I had a chance once to compare a pair of ar 4x's to a pair of original advents on strings. The ar won hands down. If you put the ar tweeter control on center or norm and the advent switch on reduce you came fairly close to matching sounds.

Stereophile did not like the new advents as according to them the crossover on the new advents was raised up in frequency so the woofer would get more midrange and the overall power handling could be raised. The ist advents did not like to play loud with allot of mid frequeny engergy before burning out the tweeters over heating them.

Have you ever noticed many of the fired egg tweeters with a dark red color to them, they got hot. They were bright red when new.

[Horswispr]

The original Large Advents had deep bass but left me just a tad emotionally flat compared to some other vintage speakers, including the AR2axs. Not sure why. A friend and I recently compared a pair of AR2axs with a pair of AR4xs and found the little 4xs just couldn't compete in terms of dynamics and warmth. The AR4xs sounded OK but they sounded small by comparison. Right now I'm listening to re-capped KLH 6s, which I really love. They're rolled off in the extreme highs, but they sound very musical overall. I'll have to check the tweeters on my New Large Advents (currently at a friend's house). I don't own any Original Large Advents right now. I never did re-cap any Original Large Advents. I wonder if that would have opened up the highs a bit.

[Rogerfederer]

i'd like to resurrect this old thread. i have had 2 sets of new large advents. i had A4s that i refoamed and swapped the polyfill stuffing for fiberglass. i checked the caps with my peak ESR meter and they read OK so i left them. i really liked the sound on the A4s but sold them when i came across a set of 5012s, which have a good reputation for sound.

i refoamed the 5012s, swapped the polyfill for fiberglass, and recapped with dayton 1% caps. now they have a very alive sound and pick up a ton of detail, but darn it they sound too bright for my tastes and there is no switch like the other NLAs to decrease the tweeter output. i could mess with the EQ but have them running in the same rig as my bozak B501s and the bozaks don't need any tweaking (excellent speakers, btw!).

i had them in the rig with my musical paradise mp-301 single-ended pentode and moved them downstairs to the heathkit w4am monoblocks. i thought the heaths would have a warmer sound and help w/ the brightness. not really much difference.

are these just not the speakers for me or is there something i can do? should i have used the regular dayton npe caps instead of the 1%?

thanks for any advice!

[RoyC]

The 1% Daytons do not sound any different than the standard 5% Daytons. They are the same capacitor, but sold with closer tolerances. (Since most Daytons seldom vary by more than 2%, IF at all, you could have saved a few bucks in that department.)

You could try replacing the Daytons with electroytic caps, or place .3 to 1 ohm of resistance in series with your Daytons to emulate the ESR of the original caps. Both of these things should result in taming the brightness somewhat. There is really not much else you can do short of re-designing the speaker.

Roy

[Rogerfederer]

roy,

thanks for the response. here is a 5002/50012 schematic: http://baselaudiolab.com/A_5012_XO.GIF

this fits mine as i don't have the tweeter switch (see http://baselaudiolab.com/ADVENT_LA_XO.html )

would i add the extra resistance to both the 7uF and 32 uF caps or maybe to the 3 ohm resistor?

thanks,

doug

[RoyC]

roy,

thanks for the response. here is a 5002/50012 schematic: http://baselaudiolab.com/A_5012_XO.GIF

this fits mine as i don't have the tweeter switch (see http://baselaudiolab.com/ADVENT_LA_XO.html )

would i add the extra resistance to both the 7uF and 32 uF caps or maybe to the 3 ohm resistor?

thanks,

doug

Doug,

I would add it just before the 7uf cap. You can experiment with various values. I'm inclined to believe you may end up adding around an ohm.

Let us know how it goes...

Roy

[Rogerfederer]

thanks, roy

will do

[stan461]

I always felt the OLA was too bright and that's about all I don't like about them.

I would like to tame the pair I have.

What crossover adjustment or re-design would apply to the OLA?

I must apologize if this is going over old ground once again but I'm not using my Advents because of this tweeter brightness issue.

I am willing to experiment with the crossover but since I don't have the expertise, I will be looking here for guidance from those who do.

[JKent]

What crossover adjustment or re-design would apply to the OLA?

Try PeteB's Baffle Step Compensator. I'll look for a link.

Kent

[JKent]

OK, here you go: Best bet is to borrow Pete's loaner unit: http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=4686&hl=%2Bbsc+%2Bloaner

Here is a photo of what the unit looks like. I built one--very simple. http://baselaudiolab.com/BSC_PICTOR_CR.JPG

This thread has 143 posts and should give you an idea about how it works and what the results are like: http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=2692&page=1 Trouble is, it's an old thread and the early posts are in reverse order.

I rebuilt my OLA xo's with all new high quality components, with much help from Pete, but in the end I preferred the AR-2ax. YMMV. Here is that thread: http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=6623

You could try Roy's suggestion of putting a small resistor before the tweeter cap. Also, many OLAs (or maybe all) were stuffed with foam rubber. Carl suggested 2.1 pounds of fiberglass instead and that improved the sound.

Or just turn down the treble

[stan461]

Thank you for the feedback Kent.

You are always there to help, and I appreciate it.

By far, changing the stuffing is the easiest.

So I'll start there.

BTW, a healthy and Happy New Year to all.