copy ar2ax in ar5??

[Guest oldfart]

hello all , i am new here, have 2 pair ar speakers for several years now,

have ar 2 ax wich is the best for me, i really like their sound,

now some time ago I purchased, 4 new replacement woofers for both sets,

I bought thos at ab tech , and they seem to perform as the originals,

now I dont like the sound of the ar5 as much as I like the ar2 ax is sounding,

and since I am building a couple of new amps , I was thinking about copying the

crossover thats used in the 2 ax, an put these copies in the ar5 set, the thing is,

allthough tjhe speakers that are used in the ar 2 and ar 5 are the same, allthough the sound coming out

of the 5 is horrible iin comparisement to the ar 2 ax....the x-over points are chosen differently in the 5 series,

but i prefer teh ar 2 sound,

btw i drive the speakers with homemade ultralinear amps, with a pair of NOS 6L6'es, per channel

the original bottle models

rca brand , and no I did not buy them, I got em for free ......gna gna

so heres the Q; has anybody been tweaking their ar5 speakers, because thats what I am going to do,

it seems to me that copiybg the ar 2 x-over is the most logical thing to do, BUT maybe there is even a better way to

get the job done, maybe there is a mod to make em even better.....who knows?????

thanks luc ANTWERP BELGIUM

[genek]

and since I am building a couple of new amps , I was thinking about copying the

crossover thats used in the 2 ax, an put these copies in the ar5 set, the thing is,

allthough tjhe speakers that are used in the ar 2 and ar 5 are the same, allthough the sound coming out

of the 5 is horrible iin comparisement to the ar 2 ax....the x-over points are chosen differently in the 5 series,

but i prefer teh ar 2 sound,

You will not get 2ax sound out of a 5 by changing the crossovers unless you also change the midrange drivers. Just changing the crossover frequencies will likely just ruin the frequency reponse at the mids.

I chose the 2ax over the 5 new back in 1975 because the 2ax was less expensive and I couldn't hear a significant difference between the models. If you hear much of a difference and the 5 sounds "horrible," it is more likely that there's something wrong with your 5's that needs repairing.

[JKent]

I chose the 2ax over the 5 new back in 1975 because the 2ax was less expensive and I couldn't hear a significant difference between the models.

Welcome Luc! (from one old fart to another)

Consider this...here in the US the 5 is considered rarer than and superior to the 2ax. They therefore command much higher prices. The 5s are basically scaled-down 3a's AFAIK. Interestingly (or not) I had considered doing just the opposite: Converting my 2ax to 5. Trouble is, it would be expensive and complicated to change the mids and crossovers.

If you were closer I'd offer a swap

Seriously. Gene is right. Fix whatever is wrong with your 5s. You may learn to love them, but if you don't you can probably sell them, buy another pr of 2ax's and have some euros left over!

Kent

[trask]

Luc: I've got AR-5's, but haven't had the chance to listen to AR-2ax's. I've got say, mine sound pretty good! I see you use a 6L6 amp, which if you're operating push-pull is probably putting out 18 watts or so. Does your amp drive your 2ax's well? Does it ever sound as if the amp is clipping? I'm thinking of getting a 6L6 amp myself (building one, that is) but I'm worried that, as so many others say, big watts are needed by these AR speakers.

[ar_pro]

For starters, the AB Tech replacement woofers aren't identical to the original AR-2ax or AR-5 woofers, so who knows what's going on?

If the 2ax sounds better than the 5, then something is probably wrong with the 5 - although I really like the 2ax, I've never heard anyone say that they prefer it to the AR-5 in a side-by-side comparison.

[Shacky]

I absolutely love my older version 2AX with redish tweeters. I found a pair of 5's over a year ago and was less than impressed with them. Put them asside thinking I'll recap before selling them.

Take a look at my recent post at AK. http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=211322

Turns out someone had jumpered the pots and the tweeters were both basically toast. Now that I have them up to snuff they are way better than my 2AX's. I think you'll find same if you dig into them. The crossover on the 5 is taken from the 3a - a more expensive/better crossover.

Get them working, dial back that midrange and I think you will be very pleased. Or sell them to me ; )

[Guest oldfart]

Hey thanks all so far, about the mid drivers, thats correct , my mistake, indeed on first sight, that seems to be the

first difference, now it might be a matter of room accoustics, but to put it very simplistic, the ar 5 is better on mids highs, i think must be about equal,

but the bass response of the ar2ax is way better than that what the ar 5 does for me,

if its electronics, then I will have to see the ar 5 x-over schematic, and see if there are capacitors used in the bass pathway , so to say....and evetually change those,

at this time, I have stacked the 2's on top of the 5's there not in front of a wall, my listening distance is abt 5 mtrs, and have no wall behind the lidtening position,

at the moment I use the 2's in combination, with tube mono blocks, and the 5's are occasionally used to boost some mid and highs when I feel I wa&nt to hear more of that or those,

I removed the jumper on the 5_s so those woofers cannot interfere with the overall sound "picture"

The driving force must be somethin of 20 to 30 watts i reckon, PP and UL and more than enough bias, I tend to overkill at times so say yhat the class there in ; Ill call it AB2

that means class ab, ok for PP but with standing current to avoid, distortion , so that I am sure that at any time the both halves if the sine are reproduced as should be,

the ar 5's are driven by something, pioneer , abt 80 wtts per channel, If I swap amps , the 5 's dont get better,

the mids and highs improve, but bass response is still not good, now, as far as I can hear , the replacements are good,

and for the one who doubted about having enough power to drive the ar 2 ax with a pair of 6l6 es, well ....I live in suburbia, that means one house next to yhe other, so my left hand wall is also the right hand wall of my neighbours, the walls are brick, and abt 60 cms thik, I can shake the house, and the pendulum clock at the neighbours wall , well I stop the clock; have I power enough, I think so....

thats it for now, but it seems that it will be an x-over issue, more specifically, something detoriated, in the low part of the filtering, then,

becouse I f i see what has been said so far, the ar 5 ought to be an even better performer than the ar2ax which I like so much....

to be continued.....

big thank you all so far

luke, oldfart....

[Guest oldfart]

Just had a peek at the xover schematic for the ar5, indeed there is a 71 microfarad in PARALELL

over the woofer, one of these days ill replace that thing with a couple of electrolyttics, two times 150 micro,

in series and back to back, couse i need a non polarized thing,,, and that should do the trick, if that C would have dried up, and that is very possible at the age of this speaker...

if this is what is going wrong, then I will not be the only one who will be suffering from this problem, anyway, ill know it very soon if this is the problem or not.....

all suggestions welcome thank you

Ill keep you all posted.... luke

[Shacky]

Just had a peek at the xover schematic for the ar5, indeed there is a 71 microfarad in PARALELL

over the woofer, one of these days ill replace that thing with a couple of electrolyttics, two times 150 micro,

in series and back to back, couse i need a non polarized thing,,, and that should do the trick, if that C would have dried up, and that is very possible at the age of this speaker...

if this is what is going wrong, then I will not be the only one who will be suffering from this problem, anyway, ill know it very soon if this is the problem or not.....

all suggestions welcome thank you

Ill keep you all posted.... luke

I just redid a pair - actually still re-doing as I still have a bad tweeter. I was less than impressed with bass and like you prefered my 2AX (older version). So I thought like you to replace that 72 uf cap and see what happens. Mine was complicated by fact that reason mine originally sounded like @$$ was someone had jumpered the pots. Also had two extremely weak tweeters.

I think it's worth a try. You can see my post over at AK.

[Guest oldfart]

I hope that You didnt destroy that tweeter yourself....haha

I been working a while as a repair technician, local kenwood service center,

I had a couple kw speakers , nothing extraordinary, just for testing purposes,

anyway one day ,I get one of those music"center" type things in front of me, you know,

that sort of rubbish that looks like a stack of single components, but actually is one el cheapo enclosure,

plastics and carboard rear, well the notice said, does not sound ok....

indeed , i managed to blow two tweeters in less than 5 seconds, one hellofacase , of very bad distortion,

i reckon that the power module that was in it, was maybe capable of making lets say rough guess, 20 watts per channel,

15 percent distorted or so, instantly destroyed the highs.......feedback circuit was faulty, but the tweeters where gone in no time......

it happened that fast , they were gone before i realised what went on, I remember turning up the volume, halfway, at the same time was thinking, fwew this sounds really crappy, and they were allready gone......distortion is a real killer......

[Guest oldfart]

YESSSSSSSSSS

I HAVE cut the 72 cap out and bass starts to live again.....

furthermore, it looks as if the crossover frequenties , especially the tweeters, have shifted upwards,

thus old caps, an overhaul of the crossover is going to be the next thing, and I think that it will be best to do both sets

all at once, I wonder what they are going to ask for good electrolytic capacitors?????

the values are "awkward" not standard values, i wonder if i can get away with something else than sprague caps....

low tolerance caps certanly, but do really need sprague, ???, I mean besides small tolerances, does it matter

what type of C , I"ll use, could go for mkt or anything else, do I really need elco"s??? I don't think so....

has anybody experience with other types of C (not the values of course...)

FOR ONPLANE

GOT YOUR INFO TNX HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO PUT YOU ON MY FRIENDS LIST

tnx all agn Luke (luc)

[Mazeppa]

Luc,

Glad to hear you're making progress with your AR5's. I have AR2a's and AR5's I've had to work on some to get them going. Both sets are working well, but the original cap.s will be replaced soon. So far I find the AR5 to be the better performer (though I like the AR2a quite a bit).

I've not seen any mention of the important roles cabinet sealing and the type/amount of stuffing play in the bass performance of these speakers. For instance, even though my AR2a's had the prescribed amount of stuffing, and a good seal, their bass performance was initially underwhelming. I followed the advice of more experienced forum members and replaced the rock wool with fiberglass and bass output instantly went from -yawn- to -wow!- I didn't even hesitate replacing the stuffing when I did my AR5's, again bass performance is most gratifying.

I have no experience with AB Tech drivers but I would think a direct replacement should have similar requirements for proper operation.

Good Luck

[Guest oldfart]

absolutely,it cant be said znough its has been stated zillion times and it has to be said even more,

the acoustics, of a room, the state the speakers are in, amps, etc to be briefly, the chain is as strong as is as weakest part, and that can be virtually (and i mean virtually some times, think about reflection and then tha cancelling of signal that can be a result of that), one error i ever made was strapping the four speaker wires alltogether very neatly, that lasted one day, the signals started to play with each other, sounds maybe weird to some, but what happened was coupling between the sets of speaker wire, -now their lying around (as i do at times haha), problem solved, also had its result on the bass part, that is also logically, the most of the power you make goes to the bass speakers....combine this with, the fact of magnetically coupling, between wires, if i stack my sprakers fisically, i dont hear much difference,since ar does not shield their speakers with mu-metal, there must be interaction between the independently driven woofers,

I cant hear that, but the earlier statement, with the bundeled wires, that i heard........... :blink: