Amplifierz Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 Hi guys, Just wanted to share, my Acoustic Research AR-5's. I fell in love with the AR sound after i found a pair of damaged AR4xa's on the sidewalk. Made them work, loved the sound. Went searching for a next step up, came across a pair of AR-5's. Unfinished pine,cabinets damaged, tweeters destroyed. Woofers badly refoamed, pots heavily corroded.. But! They were only 50 bucks. So i dediced to go all out and give my twist on them. Here is the result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aadams Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 Is that a Hivi QR1? It looks like you cut the screens and removed the damping material from the mids. Where are the Lpads and resistors? In another thread you said you would not bypass the pots. Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amplifierz Posted January 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 Hi Aadams, Yes. That is a Hi-Vi Q1R. Fitted with the appropriate addons to achieve close to AR sound. Yep, i cut the screens from the mids. Unfortunately someone dropped a unit while i was working on them, leaving a big old dent in the screen (and the dome underneath it) Needed to remove the screen and use a vacuumcleaner and the tape method to resurrect the now inverted dome. I managed to pull it off without severe damage, but i saw no way to place the screen back. And to make them look identical i removed the screen from the other mid aswell. Pots were not salvageable, 40 years of thick corrosion did its thing. Even an overnight bath in distilled white vinegar wasnt up to the task. So i looked around for a good L-pad replacement. A friend of mine suggested that you don't want L-pads in the signal, so i went with the direct resistor route. After multiple hours of testing and listening i came to the right values, put them in and never looked back. They sound amazing right now. Okay, attenuation is a bit trickier right now. But these speakers are now tuned how i like them, and they aint leaving anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aadams Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 Sounds like you will be ok with a 10 band graphic equalizer if you ever need to adjust the mid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amplifierz Posted January 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 I got a miniDSP for that. If i ever feel the need to attenuate the mid when i change something in the chain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 6 hours ago, Amplifierz said: Hi Aadams, Yes. That is a Hi-Vi Q1R. Fitted with the appropriate addons to achieve close to AR sound. Yep, i cut the screens from the mids. Unfortunately someone dropped a unit while i was working on them, leaving a big old dent in the screen (and the dome underneath it) Needed to remove the screen and use a vacuumcleaner and the tape method to resurrect the now inverted dome. I managed to pull it off without severe damage, but i saw no way to place the screen back. And to make them look identical i removed the screen from the other mid aswell. Pots were not salvageable, 40 years of thick corrosion did its thing. Even an overnight bath in distilled white vinegar wasnt up to the task. So i looked around for a good L-pad replacement. A friend of mine suggested that you don't want L-pads in the signal, so i went with the direct resistor route. After multiple hours of testing and listening i came to the right values, put them in and never looked back. They sound amazing right now. Okay, attenuation is a bit trickier right now. But these speakers are now tuned how i like them, and they aint leaving anytime soon. Amplifierz, What resistor values and configuration (series/parallel) did you use for the tweeter and mid in lieu of variable controls? Roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amplifierz Posted January 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 9 minutes ago, RoyC said: Amplifierz, What resistor values and configuration (series/parallel) did you use for the tweeter and mid in lieu of variable controls? Roy Roy, i believe it was 8 ohms for the tweet and 5 ohms for the mid. In series of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aadams Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 51 minutes ago, Amplifierz said: I got a miniDSP for that. If i ever feel the need to attenuate the mid when i change something in the chain. Do you use a turntable at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amplifierz Posted January 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 35 minutes ago, Aadams said: Do you use a turntable at all? Nope, no turntable. Streamer into a DAC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Amplifierz said: Roy, i believe it was 8 ohms for the tweet and 5 ohms for the mid. In series of course. Using only series resistance changes the crossover points, and the amount you used changed them rather significantly. Consequently, you are no longer listening to any version of the AR-5. The best way to implement fixed resistors is to mimic a preferred setting of the original AR 15 ohm pot. For example, 3 ohms in series and 12 ohms in parallel, an often preferred mid setting, is equivalent to a bit less than a quarter turn off maximum. All series/parallel resistor combinations should add up to 15 ohms. Doing it this way attenuates the tweeter and mid without changing the original character of the AR model. (L-pads work the same way, but with different series/parallel values, which is why the fixed 25 ohm parallel resistor is recommended when using 8 ohm L-pads.) Roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aadams Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Amplifierz said: Streamer into a DAC. Does this mean all your music files are rented or public access instead of owned. No local storage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amplifierz Posted January 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 45 minutes ago, Aadams said: Does this mean all your music files are rented or public access instead of owned. No local storage? Ohh, i have music on a NAS. The streamer does also play from LAN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amplifierz Posted January 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 46 minutes ago, RoyC said: Using only series resistance changes the crossover points, and the amount you used changed them rather significantly. Consequently, you are no longer listening to any version of the AR-5. The best way to implement fixed resistors is to mimic a preferred setting of the original AR 15 ohm pot. For example, 3 ohms in series and 12 ohms in parallel, an often preferred mid setting, is equivalent to a bit less than a quarter turn off maximum. All series/parallel resistor combinations should add up to 15 ohms. Doing it this way attenuates the tweeter and mid without changing the original character of the AR model. (L-pads work the same way, but with different series/parallel values, which is why the fixed 25 ohm parallel resistor is recommended when using 8 ohm L-pads.) Roy Thank you for your expertise. I am merely a hobbyist that knows little to nothing about crossovers. I will look into that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 11 hours ago, Amplifierz said: A friend of mine suggested that you don't want L-pads in the signal Roy was too polite to say it bluntly but your friend is wrong. Look at the AR-3a Restoration Guide, written by experienced restorers including Roy (THE resident expert) and johnnieo (an EE professor). Your fixed resistors threw things WAY off. You will be infinitely better off with L-pads. Kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar_pro Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 What effect will the absence of damping material have on the midrange drivers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amplifierz Posted January 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 27 minutes ago, JKent said: Roy was too polite to say it bluntly but your friend is wrong. Look at the AR-3a Restoration Guide, written by experienced restorers including Roy (THE resident expert) and johnnieo (an EE professor). Your fixed resistors threw things WAY off. You will be infinitely better off with L-pads. Kent Alright. Since i am the novice here, any kind of advice i always take in consideration even when its the wrong kind of advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amplifierz Posted January 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, ar_pro said: What effect will the absence of damping material have on the midrange drivers? They have higher output, since the radiating surface of the dome is now uncovered. Thats why i needed to lower its output through resistors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aadams Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 There is a benefit to fixed resistors. If you get the fixed resistance set so the crossover points are correct the mid and tweeter outputs will be matched across both cabinets without accounting for any variation between like drivers. You can use your equalizer to increase or decrease entire driver bands with modest adjustments. This is similar to later ARs made with no attenuator controls after equalizers became affordable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted January 20, 2020 Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 5 hours ago, Amplifierz said: They have higher output, since the radiating surface of the dome is now uncovered. Thats why i needed to lower its output through resistors. The rings which were attached to the mids' missing grills contributed to dispersion, which unfortunately is another departure from the original voicing of your speakers in their current state. The grills could have been removed without cutting, and reshaped. I assume they are long gone at this point (?). Roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amplifierz Posted January 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 7 hours ago, RoyC said: The rings which were attached to the mids' missing grills contributed to dispersion, which unfortunately is another departure from the original voicing of your speakers in their current state. The grills could have been removed without cutting, and reshaped. I assume they are long gone at this point (?). Roy Yes, the grills are gone. I'm a fully aware of the fact that these are never going to sound like AR originally intended. But regarding L-pads, what kind do i need? And how do i hook them up.? Regards, Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted January 20, 2020 Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 6 hours ago, Amplifierz said: Yes, the grills are gone. I'm a fully aware of the fact that these are never going to sound like AR originally intended. But regarding L-pads, what kind do i need? And how do i hook them up.? Regards, Ben There is much posted on this topic, including photos, in the forum (the "search" feature is your friend). 8 ohm 15 watt L-pads available from Parts Express and Madisound are the least costly option. New original type pots are available from forum member chris1this1...and I have refurbished original pots. Post photos of what you have done to your crossovers and we may be of more assistance. Roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amplifierz Posted January 20, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2020 Thanks Roy! Those AR's are my main listeners atm. The other speakers standing next to them aren't ready yet. When i see an opportunity to open up one of the 5's i will take some pictures to show you my handy work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amplifierz Posted January 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2020 Here is the picture of the crossover. Don't think i have to state the obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aadams Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 This thread has some good before and after images of the way it should be connected if you use original pots. This thread has an image of lpads in a 3a but the connections are the same as AR5. I think the wire colors are the same. I will pass this on from one of the experts. You aren't required to work in the box. You can prep with pigtails and install with wire nuts. Use marine grade wire 18awg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted January 22, 2020 Report Share Posted January 22, 2020 7 hours ago, Amplifierz said: Here is the picture of the crossover. Don't think i have to state the obvious. Yup, removing those banana plugs from the level control holes, and disconnecting most of the wires attached to them, would be step one. Removing your added resistors, wherever they are, would be step two. Taking a good look at the links provided by Aadams would be next. Did you connect the black wire ascending from the capacitors to your woofer's positive terminal? Roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.