Guesstimator Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 Hi all first post here. I am the proud owner of a pair of ar4x and as of yesterday a pair of ar3a improved (I live in Italy). Found them at a reasonable price because a young couple bough a house which was cluttered withe previous owner' junk...including a (what looked like) pristine pair of ar3a improved. Got them home and it is clear they have been very well looked after by the original owner. Only thing is, that on opening them I discovered that one of the woofers is incorrect. One speaker has a 20003 which must have been refoamed some years ago (which I believe to be the correct part for this speaker), and the other has an ar1210003-2a . Now, this later woofer is in need of refoaming which leads me to believe it was a new replacement at the time of fitting. My question is: is this woofer truly the same as the original ar 20003 ? Is it worth refoaming or should I start looking for another 20003? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Cheers Mat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lARrybody Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 Welcome to CSP Mat That is a Tonegen A7 replacement woofer probably made in Taiwan. Not a bad woofer. Your other 20003 woofer could have a round or square magnet. There is information on the different woofers used in the AR3a restoration guide found here in the library section. They look very well cared for. Could you show the back switches and binding post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guesstimator Posted August 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 The other woofer has a round magnet. And some metallic mesh on the basket. Could be A4 or A5? Mid seems to be the A13 and the tweeter A20. I think I will refoam the tonegen woofer and keep my eyes peeled for another 20003 woofer in the next few months. For some reason I can't seem to upload pictures....at the the end of the upload I simply get a -200 warning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guesstimator Posted August 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio AR Posted August 28, 2019 Report Share Posted August 28, 2019 Hi, nice speakers, I have to add two things to the comment of Kent: the Tonegen woofer should be produced in Japan (I am attaching photos of front and back of my 1990 TNG woofer, next to a '78 200003), second, from the photos it seems to see that the foam on the TNG woofer is glued under the paper cone? Furthermore the 200003 woofer foam is not the correct 5/8" roll and here you will also find the advice on the correct type of foam to use. Giorgio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guesstimator Posted September 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 Hi all just finished my first refoam (of the tonegen woofer). I can confirm that The foam was glued to the front of the cone. The foam width of the 200003 woofer is the correct 5/8th and is extremely soft. The new foam for the ring is specific for the ar3a but the roll width measures about 15mm as opposed to the 16mm of the original. Main difference is that the new foam is obviously stiffer than the older one on the other speaker. Any suggestions on how to speed up the breaking in of the foam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio AR Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 Hi, the foam you used I think was bought in Italy and it's not the same one you find in the USA. On the Italian site Melius you will find a nice discussion on the foam you used for the TNG woofer, in that topic it is written that the new foam was torn after listening to high volumes and later replaced with correct foam! Probably if the speakers are not subjected to high power, this foam should be able to guarantee a listening very similar to the original. I am attaching 2 photos of a pair of my AR3a improved woofers from 1974 refoamed with the foam purchased from AR Vintage. Giorgio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guesstimator Posted September 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 Yeah the single foam I bough is definitely not the correct item although it is sold as though it is. However this is not an issue. The plan is to try the speakers and see how much I like them. If all is good the I will search for a 200003 woofer and at that point will then refoam both at the same time with the vintage ar kit, and sell on the freshly refoamed TNG. Is running a 30hz through the woofer a common practice to soften up the new foam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomK Posted September 3, 2019 Report Share Posted September 3, 2019 2 hours ago, Guesstimator said: Yeah the single foam I bough is definitely not the correct item although it is sold as though it is. However this is not an issue. The plan is to try the speakers and see how much I like them. If all is good the I will search for a 200003 woofer and at that point will then refoam both at the same time with the vintage ar kit, and sell on the freshly refoamed TNG. Is running a 30hz through the woofer a common practice to soften up the new foam? 30hz is used to test whether or not the voice coil is centered. My material science information is extremely old at this point, but I would think the purpose of synthetic foam is to ensure a consistent suspension throughout its lifespan. Can foam really soften that way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTally Posted September 5, 2019 Report Share Posted September 5, 2019 On 9/3/2019 at 11:23 AM, TomK said: 30hz is used to test whether or not the voice coil is centered. My material science information is extremely old at this point, but I would think the purpose of synthetic foam is to ensure a consistent suspension throughout its lifespan. Can foam really soften that way? Every woofer I have refoamed (dozens) have sounded better after several hours of use. My experience is that foams loosen up and go deeper with use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzzwell Posted August 5 Report Share Posted August 5 On 9/3/2019 at 2:14 PM, Giorgio AR said: I am attaching 2 photos of a pair of my AR3a improved woofers from 1974 refoamed with the foam purchased from AR Vintage. Hi Giorgio. This is from some time ago. I am re-foaming a pair of 3a woofers, later Tonegen 1210003-2A units. Having a problem sourcing the right surrounds. (your post may have got me being too critical). I am based in Holland. Local supplier sells the same surrounds for 3/3a/9/11 etc... all the same product. Photo with blue background is their product. Their bevel measures about 7/8 inch wide, also their inner and outer lip is about the same width. The other photo is a cross section drawing of the original surrounds. With a bevel close or exactly 5/8 inch (15.9 - 16 mm). Inner lip only 3 - 4 mm and glued on the front of the cone. Outside lip about 7 mm. Giving a total of approx 26 mm total profile width. Could you send a link please of the place where you purchased surrounds from "AR Vintage" (if they are still in business). I have tried and can't find any business/user with this name. Thanks and best regards, Mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzzwell Posted August 5 Report Share Posted August 5 Update: Rick Cobb does not ship internationally. .. So if anyone knows of a good European source please let me know. Parts Express from the US want min. $85 to ship not incl. import tax,. So not an option. Sort of found the answer.. VintageAR doesn't seem to sell surrounds any longer on ebay. So I have found R cobbs account. The locally available surrounds in Holland are obviously generic and probably Chinese. Just going to have to eat shipping and import tax. Giorgio, Guesstimator I found the info below on Tonegen. My drivers are from 91, from this info it would seem logic that the AR drivers were probably commissioned by Culver-Tonegen in the U.S to be mfg in either (Taiwan Culver-Tonegen factory), Japan or the U.S. However what little info I can find about Taiwan production refers to polyprop drivers. As the drivers lack any country of origin info, It seems likely Taiwan. If any of you have any more info on this it would be appreciated. Thanks. Tonegen Co., Ltd Japanese loudspeaker manufacturer based in the city of Osaka in Kansai, primarily occupied as an OEM manufacturer of loudspeaker drivers and as such you will more often find their products branded as Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), JBL, JVC so on and so forth, than with the company name itself on the second hand market. The company is best known for their high end woofers and ribbon tweeters and were in their time considered one of the best volume driver manufacturer in the world a, but is should be kept in mind that they made products to spec so that in between quality stuff they manufactured budget drivers for concerns such as Bolivar Speaker Works and Radio Shack. The company was taken over by Foster Electric Company in 1986 but they continued to use the Tonegen name for a few years afterwards but have since closed the original factory, the R&D division in Osaka still exists (or did so until recently) and is sometimes referred to as Tonegen colloquially. The company also had a USA based subsidiary called Culver-Tonegen that operated mostly as a sales office but they did contribute to custom designs of speakers and drivers for their USA customers, after the Foster takeover they were known as Foster-Culver. BTW the name of the company is often misspelled Tonigen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston Posted August 8 Report Share Posted August 8 Perhaps Larry is an option for shipping in Europe (I hope he still sells correct size surrounds): https://www.ebay.com/itm/161914291445?itmmeta=01J4SN0XF3ZJ0A8AMD0RFXM4CE&hash=item25b2d804f5:g:WyYAAOSwwE5Wacq9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzzwell Posted August 9 Report Share Posted August 9 Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzzwell Posted August 14 Report Share Posted August 14 Correction Vintage AR parts and service is still on ebay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.