Guesstimator

Hi all had some time off today so thought I'd try a slightly more detailed comparison between the ar3a improved and the RCF BR45. I used my new mike for the test and brought out the speakers from their normal positioning into the middle of the room. tested one speaker at a time in the same position. Mic is aligned with woofer axis at a distance of 50cm from speaker front face (woofer mounting surface). During the test i noticed that for a given signal strength the ar3a are actually louder than the rcf so definitely more efficient. First test is a sweep from 20 to 4khz (higher frequencies become annoying when performing multiple sweeps...especially for the neighbours). The rcf has all controls on FLAT and the ar3a always has the high freq switch boost on. I then repeated measurements with the rcf mids set to normal and then maxed out. Then i saw the neighbours leave while i had the ar3a on the stand so did a wider sweep up to to 10Khz with switch on and off. when i get a chance i will repeat for RCF. Before doing this test, i simply played around checking if the mic worked and did close-field measurements of woofer up to 600 hz at 25cm from speaker front face. interestingly in this test the ar3a had a stronger response below 100 hz Anyway, it's all good fun. keeping my eyes peeled for the BR55 at bargain price like these!

After 2 months of going back and forth between the rcf BR45;and the ar3a, I have picked my favourite.......and selling the other ..... Ok, tried to be as analitycal and superpartes as possible but in the end I chose the ones I thought had a better balance, greater varsatility and sounded more "real".... And Chris Cornell's voice and Leslie West's guitar made it clear..... The rcf BR45!...and looking into the rcf BR55 just out of curiosity... Ar3a is a great speaker, just a little too blurred/soft compared to the rcf for the music I listen to.

Unfortunately got bad news from RCF.... Even in their paper archives they can't find any info regarding these speakers, so I guess its time to hunt down stereo review mags of the time

Thanks that's good to know, i also have a set or AR4x......if i find other bargains i might just try them I am very curious about the larger models though.....

Yeah...it's an older model...they had br35-41-45 etc...also some really massive speakers the 120 and 150 I've contacted RCF asking for info manuals or whatever they may still have and was reassured they have info in their "paper" archives....should get some info in the next few days. My father in law, that was an AR man and followd the hi-fi scene at the time, mentioned rcf as manufacturers of really good speaker components but not speakers....seems they didnt have great appreciation from the specialised press at the time. The rcf have a slightly lower output for a given amp volume which confirms their low sensitivity of 87db...possibly less if compared to the ar3a which sounds louder for a given volume setting. As additional info I'm using twin NAD 2155 power amps. Now listening to budgie, in for the kill, first on the ar3a and now on RCF BR 45...maybe the ar3a feels a little more natural while the RCF a little more artificial or modern....I like the bass better on the RCF...maybe mids on the ar3a are alittle more natural/controlled? Or maybe just more familiar..... But it really is nitpicking... I think I'll need to delve deeper into measured responses, and decay....by my ear they are both fantastic. Any suggestions are welcome.

Just removed the ar3a and refitted the RCF Looking of any possibl information about these speakers

Probably not many know the italian brand RCF despite living in Italy i definitely didn't really know much about them, apart from the fact that they existed , were renown for the their components but less so for their speakers.....untill i bought a pair of RCF BR45 for 100€ on Friday while browsing through a used articles shop..... Bought them on a whim, they looked in very good nick and discovered at the shop after compressing the woofer and observing the slow return that they were acoustic suspension. Spec wise i believe the RCF to be a clone of the AR3a/AR5 with crossover frequencies of 500 and 5000hz but with mid and treble pots on the front face. I own a pair of AR3A improved that i re foamed and recapped using material and guides from this formum. in 2019 these speakers made me sell off my other speakers (audio monitor bronze BX6 and JBL40), so wasn't expeting much from the RCF....but boy was i mistaken. I have spent the past two days comparing the speakers incessantly, both by ear and trying to get some measurements down.....why? ultimately because i feel bad that i prefer them to the AR3A. I even coerced the wife into a blindfolded A-B test and guess what.....she prefers the RCF. Now i will keep listening to both speakers and maybe broaden the range of genres i have used for comparison and I'll try and find out more about these RCF BR45 speakers, but regardless of personal taste these speakers should definitely have a place on a forum like this. They have a 10" woofer as opposed to the AR3a's 12" and maybe they sound like an AR5? only thing i can say for certain is that the bass guitar is tighter and clearer and so easier to pick out, which is what I've heard about the ar5. i did a frequency sweep up to 4khz and the response in the listening position is fundamental the same apart from a dip at 700hz on the RCF...which i fixed simply by moving the mid pot from "flat" to "normal" position. The tonal similarity is uncanny, with the ar3a feeling maybe fuller but the RCF clearer with greater accuracy in instrument spacial positioning..... i know its blasphemy but there it is

Still looking, doesn't need to be refomaed, I can do that myself. anybody?

Hi, just saw this reply, always assumed I would get an email notification to a reply. My mistake. If still I retested I'm willing to pay 150€

Specs for my amp are all over the place. On vinylengine the power rating is incorrect. Max power is 70w per channel into 8 ohm. Also the Freq response curve is not fantastic by today's standards. From 100hz it drops by 2 dB at 40 Hz....although I wouldn't have thought that would be significant Problem is not just my sound perception....the response measurents show the same....I know it's not a cancellation because with the tone controls I can definitely increase the output in this frequency region...but it then feels bloated...... But I'll give the headphone test a go thanks.

That's the thing....I'm not sure the amp is up to the job. Manual rates it at only 8 or 16 ohm loads, but an ex designer of this company swares it's fine with the ar3a and to be honest I've never had any overheating or other problems whatsoever. Speakers have been refoamed and recapped with the vintage AR kits from fleabay. I have worked over three years with rew, and several bass traps I made and have managed satisfactory frequency response soundstage and imaging with monitor audio bx6 bronze, JBL l40 and ar4x. Curiously the pneumatic suspension speakers have similar placements which differ from those of the ported designs. With ar3a I have achieved a good frequency response and I find they have a nicely detailed bass but was expecting more in the 40 to 60 Hz region ....and again not sure about amp capabilities...250€ is fairly cheap even just for a test but was wondering if anybody ad ever tried this combination... P.s. Ar3a are on 32 cm stands (12.5 inch)

The amp itself is rated down to two ohms in non bridging mode ...

The user manual explaines that the impedance in bridged mode is halved and says to set the output resistance to 8 ohm in bridged mode regardless of speakers used. It states that a 4 ohm speaker will in effect be seen as a 2 ohm and that two 4 ohm speaker in parallel will be seen as a 1ohm impedance load. However it only suggests not to run more than one speaker per amp in bridged mode and seems to consider single 4 ohm speakers as acceptable...."for best results the bridging mode should be used with only a single 4-ohm or 8-ohm speaker in each channel".(user manual) At the same time the service manual does not give power ratings for 4 ohms in bridging mode.

Hi all, I heve been offered a pair of Nad 2155 power amps at a very reasonable price (250€ the pair). I was curious if anybody has ever tried these (or something similar) in bridged mode with ar3's ? I currently use a galactron mk10 integrated amp, whose current delivery ability are kind of an unknown. I like the sound but can't help feeling I'm missing the deeper bass.... Cheers all

Hi all i have a pair of AR3a Improved speakers and one has had a replacement woofer fitted . The correct woofer is p.n. 200003-0 1972-1974 with a wooden (masonite?) ring, should be A3 of the restoration guide. In one speaker this was replaced with a Tonegen 1210003-2A wich is much less compliant than the original 20003-0. The Tonegen woofer is in perfect working order and aesthetic condition so i could also trade that for a decent 200003-0 even if it needs a refoam . Either way, looking for the correct 200003-0 woofer. Only snag is i am in Italy

Thanks for the info! I assume you guys have actually used these kits? The parts express kit seems to have a wider roll width than original (19mm Vs 16). The other two I can't find the info. I was looking for a general consensus and got three different answers ? I apologise if I offend anybody, I'm cautious only because I have to order these from the states (I'm in Italy) and will also pay customs fees....really want to get the perfect kit first time... At the moment all I know is that the kit I bought here in Italy was way too stiff and the roll width was too narrow. Hope you understand. Thanks again Mat

Good evening. Tonight one of my ar3a improved woofer foam decided it had had enough (crumbled to pieces). After buying these speakers 6 months ago I originally refoamed one of the woofers with a cheap locally sourced kit which was way to stiff, just to check the speakers worked ok. As the speakers Ara I keeper, I'm looking to refoam both woofers with the correct size and compliance foam. What is the general consensus on good refoam kits? I was looking at vintage ar, but fleabay says they are out of the office untill the 18th of march.... Please forgive me if this is posted elsewhere, but I couldn't find this information with a "best ar3a refoam kit" search. Regards Matteo Tirinnanzi PS I have taken my JBL l40s out of the garage while I refoam the ar3a, but I have to say that for the money they are a really good speaker. Yes the bass is a little woolly and doesn't extend down as far as the ar3a...but I can make do for a month is so....

Yeah the single foam I bough is definitely not the correct item although it is sold as though it is. However this is not an issue. The plan is to try the speakers and see how much I like them. If all is good the I will search for a 200003 woofer and at that point will then refoam both at the same time with the vintage ar kit, and sell on the freshly refoamed TNG. Is running a 30hz through the woofer a common practice to soften up the new foam?

Hi all just finished my first refoam (of the tonegen woofer). I can confirm that The foam was glued to the front of the cone. The foam width of the 200003 woofer is the correct 5/8th and is extremely soft. The new foam for the ring is specific for the ar3a but the roll width measures about 15mm as opposed to the 16mm of the original. Main difference is that the new foam is obviously stiffer than the older one on the other speaker. Any suggestions on how to speed up the breaking in of the foam?

The other woofer has a round magnet. And some metallic mesh on the basket. Could be A4 or A5? Mid seems to be the A13 and the tweeter A20. I think I will refoam the tonegen woofer and keep my eyes peeled for another 20003 woofer in the next few months. For some reason I can't seem to upload pictures....at the the end of the upload I simply get a -200 warning

Hi all first post here. I am the proud owner of a pair of ar4x and as of yesterday a pair of ar3a improved (I live in Italy). Found them at a reasonable price because a young couple bough a house which was cluttered withe previous owner' junk...including a (what looked like) pristine pair of ar3a improved. Got them home and it is clear they have been very well looked after by the original owner. Only thing is, that on opening them I discovered that one of the woofers is incorrect. One speaker has a 20003 which must have been refoamed some years ago (which I believe to be the correct part for this speaker), and the other has an ar1210003-2a . Now, this later woofer is in need of refoaming which leads me to believe it was a new replacement at the time of fitting. My question is: is this woofer truly the same as the original ar 20003 ? Is it worth refoaming or should I start looking for another 20003? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Cheers Mat