Cabinet restoring

[DON]

Those cabinets are looking good.

[HarryM]

Thanks Don,

Still aways to go but they are coming along.

[HarryM]

I've kept working on refinishing cabs. I have decided that I much prefer the cleaning, light sanding and then a couple of coats of BLO. It's a little more work then the Howards but I like the results a lot more. In the group pics the only ones not refinished are the 90's because they look good anyway but you can see they are now lighter then the rest. In the pic of the stacked 4x's you can see the upper pair are quite abit lighter then the other pair even though I refinished both pairs the same. The PO was very proud of the fact that he had a friend of his lighten the color because he felt the original color was to dark. I don't know how he did it but it worked. He also didn't like the original white grill cloth. I'm going to make new white grills for it someday.

I guess I'm going to have to clean the grills a bit and finish the walnut stands to match the speakers better. LOL They don't look as bad in real life.

[DON]

I bought my 2ax when I was stationed in Germany around 73-74. The audio club had 2ax, 3as and 5s. They all had the light colored grilles and the Base Exchange had the European style cabinets of the 2ax with a reddish brown cloth and my wife and I preferred the dark cloth. I foolishly sold those speakers in 96. I found an almost new empty pair of the European cabinets a while back but health problems delayed any restoration efforts until just recently.

I've tried to post photos but they're too large and I haven't figured out how to resize them in I-Photo yet

[HarryM]

2ax's is a restoration I'd like to do. You'll have a great pair of speakers when you're done them. The reddish brown cloth I don't mind, some of the smaller AR's I have use that cloth. The black cloth on the 4x's bother me because it doesn't belong. LOL. I wish I could help you on resizing pic's but I don't have a clue.

[genek]

Boiled linseed oil (which today is not really boiled, but is catalyzed using a petroleum distillate additive), combined with oxidation over many years, is what turns the original reddish tone of the walnut dark brown. How dark will depend on how many repeated applications of oil and how many years since. If you go to a museum and look at walnut furniture made in the 1800s or earlier, much of it will be almost black in color after 100 years of aging.

If you're working wood items that are potentially valuable antiques, you never want to refinish. I've seen family heirlooms reduced from $25,000 antiques to $500 used furniture because someone didn't like the dark wood and gave it the Formbys refinisher treatment. Though I doubt that AR speakers are likely to reach those lofty heights of desirability.

[HarryM]

Thanks genek,

That is something to keep in mind.

I know for myself, the cabs that I did refinish needed to be done. The cabs that don't need it, like the 90's, are just going to get a fresh coat of BLO.

Harry

[Anthropologo]

Boiled linseed oil (which today is not really boiled, but is catalyzed using a petroleum distillate additive), combined with oxidation over many years, is what turns the original reddish tone of the walnut dark brown. How dark will depend on how many repeated applications of oil and how many years since. If you go to a museum and look at walnut furniture made in the 1800s or earlier, much of it will be almost black in color after 100 years of aging.

If you're working wood items that are potentially valuable antiques, you never want to refinish. I've seen family heirlooms reduced from $25,000 antiques to $500 used furniture because someone didn't like the dark wood and gave it the Formbys refinisher treatment. Though I doubt that AR speakers are likely to reach those lofty heights of desirability.

That's the rub isn't it - I have an AR-1 with a faded wood, some scraping and no grill - but it works perfectly - a perfect candidate for refinishing, but another part of me says to leave it be, that its current state is an honest representation of its journey and you can't roll back time - I don't think any route is wrong, per se, just different and driven by individual aesthetics (and of course the SO veto power for such visible objects) - since my spouse does appreciate the provenance of antiques (many AR products qualify) I have been able to make the patina as reality argument work and it continues to play loud in public view in the living room - score one for the home team.......

[ra.ra]

genek and Anthro's posts frame a very interesting discussion, particularly about the SO who acknowledges and appreciates the history and aging (provenance) of older objects. My own (sometimes overly eager) inclination when I obtain an "aged" collectible of any sort, is normally to grab the chemicals and abrasives to begin a "restoration" or "rejuvenation", but I have learned that it is often better to live with the piece for awhile and consider other more delicate or gentler approaches toward giving the item a new and prolonged life.

[Carnivore]

This has been a helpful thread, I'm working on cabinets right now.

1. I followed HarryM's advice and used Spray 9 to strip off the old oil. (Done)

2. I need to sand out some scratches, some of which are deep, so I'm using a Bosch random orbital sander with 80 grit sandpaper to get through those. (In progress)

3. I plan to follow that with 120 grit sandpaper to prep it for the first coat of finish.

4a. I may apply a coat of Watco Danish oil natural finish to pretreat the wood as recommended by the manufacturer, after a color test on the bottom of one of the speakers.

4b. Applying Watco Danish oil, possibly medium walnut after an additional color test on the bottom of one of the speakers.

5. Light sanding with 220 sandpaper, then a final coat of Danish oil if needed.

Some questions for the group:

A. If I need to use the hot iron & damp cloth trick to try lifting dents and scratches, it is best to do this before applying the finish or after the first or final coat?

B. Is it best to use the Mohawk epoxy to fill any remaining defects before applying the finish or after the first or final coat to match the color?

C. Any tips for bleaching a dark water stain out of one of the veneer surfaces it if doesn't come out with sanding?

D. The recommended Watco Danish oil color as mentioned in other threads here seems to be medium or dark walnut. However I was under the impression that the original AR finish was boiled linseed oil over the natural walnut veneer without any additional pigment. Does this mean the walnut tinted Watco finish will be darker than the original AR factory BLO finish?

[JKent]

Hi Carnivore

I may be overly cautious but I would not use 80 grit to start (and would not stop with 220). If the scratches are deep they may not come out. I would sand those areas by hand, WITH A BLOCK (see Harry's comments in post #22) then use the orbital sander, being careful to avoid edges and corners where it is very easy to sand through the veneer.

When I sand SOLID wood cabinets I generally progress: 80, 100, 120, 150, 220, 320, 600. With veneer I would skip the 80 through 120.

If you use the iron & damp cloth trick, I'd do that first--before any sanding.

The Mohawk epoxy is good for gouges and corner bashes and again should be done before any sanding.

I've seen recommendations for oxalic acid to bleach dark stains but i have not used it and have not found anything that will take out dark water marks. That's one reason for using Dark Walnut Watco. You can Google "oxalic acid wood bleach for dark water stains".

The BLO did darken the wood and AR recommended re-applying periodically (every 6 months--see post #4). The walnut veneer tends to lighten or fade (counter-intuitively) with age and the Medium or Dark Watco helps bring back the original color. Watco Oil is not really a stain and I have found little difference whether using Neutral, Medium Walnut or Dark Walnut.

Kent

[dxho]

C. Any tips for bleaching a dark water stain out of one of the veneer surfaces it if doesn't come out with sanding?

Yes, oxalic acid will remove staining. I say 'staining' because it may not remove all the discoloration. I had an AR2 cabinet with a pretty serious stain, and I was able to get most of it out.

It's available as crystals (I had to order it online), or in many deck cleaning solutions, which is likely available locally.

[HarryM]

All I can say is work carefully. Using a block and sanding with the grain is the safest way to go. I did leave in some of the heavier scratches, I think it gives them a bit of character.

Good luck with the refinishing. Post pics when your done.

Harry.

[Carnivore]

Turns out the thick walnut veneer is pretty forgiving, I used 80, 120 and 220 sandpaper with the random orbital sander and was able to get a lot of the substantial scratches out without any accidents.

I still need to hand sand around the edges, apply a laminate strip to one edge that had previously delaminated, try oxalic acid on the dark stain and fill any remaining nicks and scratches, but I made good progress today.

New grill cloth will follow the cabinet finishing and I will post photos when done. Thanks for the tips everyone.

[woodworkingryan]

I use this touch up kit from a company called touch up solutions. It comes in a wide selection of wood tone to match the wood of your cabinet. It comes with a fill stick and a furniture marker.

The fill stick fills in any deep scratches or dings so the damaged area is leveled. And the furniture marker helps blend everything so your damaged cabinet is not an eye sore anymore. 

Heres a link to them if you need! http://www.touchupsolutions.com/home-user-shop/wood-laminate-products