AR-91 Pair - Wayne, NJ Craigslist

[ar_pro]

$75 sounds like a pretty good deal for someone:

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/ele/2499153518.html

[JKent]

$75 sounds like a pretty good deal for someone:

http://newjersey.cra...2499153518.html

Thanks Pro

Just replied to the ad. They're in my home town, about a 1/2 hour drive from here. We'll see....

Kent

[DON]

Thanks Pro

Just replied to the ad. They're in my home town, about a 1/2 hour drive from here. We'll see....

Kent

Go get em Kent! Photos requested

Looks as if I'll get the AR9s next week.

[Tom H.]

Everyone's getting new AR Speakers but me! Sniff.

I'm anxious to see how those AR-91'S stack up against the older stuff.

[ar_pro]

"I'm anxious to see how those AR-91'S stack up against the older stuff."

Better. They'll stack up better.

[ar_pro]

Thanks Pro

Just replied to the ad. They're in my home town, about a 1/2 hour drive from here. We'll see....

Kent

Excellent...good luck!

[michiganpat]

Everyone's getting new AR Speakers but me! Sniff.

I'm anxious to see how those AR-91'S stack up against the older stuff.

yeah, I'm feeling left out, right now I'm debating selling my Smaller Advents and replace them in my office with some AR Holographic Imaging M5's I found....

just not sure...

[JKent]

"I'm anxious to see how those AR-91'S stack up against the older stuff."

Better. They'll stack up better.

Trying to coordinate schedules but should pick 'em up this evening. I love my AR3/3a conversions so it will be real interesting to compare them.

Kent

[dynaco_dan]

Trying to coordinate schedules but should pick 'em up this evening. I love my AR3/3a conversions so it will be real interesting to compare them.

Kent

Hi Kent

ROAD TRIP

[ar_pro]

Trying to coordinate schedules but should pick 'em up this evening. I love my AR3/3a conversions so it will be real interesting to compare them.

Kent

AR's older systems (AR-3, AR-3a, AR-5) had a certain "rightness" in their aesthetic quality, something that was left behind in the 11/10pi series, in what had to have been AR's attempt to "modernize" the line.

Form followed function in the earlier systems, as it did with the floor-standing AR-9 and AR-90 systems, which broke new ground for the company.

The AR-91 is an odd duck, in that it was AR's first 12" 3-way system that was designed to sit upright on the floor - no shelf or stand needed - a clever presentation, because it did not actually replace the AR-11 as the TOTL AR system (that had been done by the AR-9), but still offered a superb 3-way for those coming from the 3a or 11, and who might have been reluctant to jump to the big floorstanders.

That said, I've found that placing the AR-91 on a cement or stone riser of about 10-12" in height absolutely transforms the system, bringing it very close to the quality of an AR-9, or AR-90, albeit with less LF extension than those two systems, and with a somewhat less-smooth transition between the woofer and the midrange drivers than that of the 4-way systems.

This transition was still smoother than that found in the AR-3a or AR-11 (or the LST, for that matter), owing to those superb new 9-series drivers.

Dislikes? I hate the plastic trim ring around the woofer, and the vinyl applique on the front panel, but they're covered by the grille, anyway.

[JKent]

Picked them up yesterday evening, before going to this jazz series:

http://www.wpunj.edu/wplive/

A perfect night!

The good news: These were owned by a very nice fellow who is retiring and moving. His new place has pre-installed Bose speakers in virtually every room and although he likes the 91s the Bose has a higher WAF. His loss=my gain

They're in very good shape. A few scratches on top of one should come out easily. The foam rings around the tweeters and mids have deteriorated. Looks like the woofers were refoamed by an amateur.

Hooked one up for a very brief listen next to the 3a. The 91 sounds REALLY good but certainly different. More "forward" than the 3a (I don't really have a command of the speaker-describing jargon). A bit brighter. I switched the mid and hi toggles to the lowest settings. Will do some more listening when I have a chance.

The bad news: None so far

A couple of questions:

1. Think I should re-refoam the woofers? Looks like there is rubber cement smeared on there. Not even sure how to remove it. And in some spots the surrounds don't lie perfectly flat on the cones.
2. What about the rotted foam damping rings? Looks like a couple were replaced with air conditioner filters. I've read some comments that these are not really needed. So--replace? If so, with what? Maybe these for the tweets? https://www.madisoun...products_id=770
   
3. What did they use for caps in these? High quality or so-so? I'll probably want to re-cap them unless those of you familiar with these say the caps are probably fine.

Not a lot of info available on these. All input welcome!

So many speakers, so little time.......

Kent

[DON]

Picked them up yesterday evening, before going to this jazz series:

http://www.wpunj.edu/wplive/

A perfect night!

The good news: These were owned by a very nice fellow who is retiring and moving. His new place has pre-installed Bose speakers in virtually every room and although he likes the 91s the Bose has a higher WAF. His loss=my gain

They're in very good shape. A few scratches on top of one should come out easily. The foam rings around the tweeters and mids have deteriorated. Looks like the woofers were refoamed by an amateur.

Hooked one up for a very brief listen next to the 3a. The 91 sounds REALLY good but certainly different. More "forward" than the 3a (I don't really have a command of the speaker-describing jargon). A bit brighter. I switched the mid and hi toggles to the lowest settings. Will do some more listening when I have a chance.

The bad news: None so far

A couple of questions:

1. Think I should re-refoam the woofers? Looks like there is rubber cement smeared on there. Not even sure how to remove it. And in some spots the surrounds don't lie perfectly flat on the cones.
2. What about the rotted foam damping rings? Looks like a couple were replaced with air conditioner filters. I've read some comments that these are not really needed. So--replace? If so, with what? Maybe these for the tweets? https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=404_116&products_id=770
   
3. What did they use for caps in these? High quality or so-so? I'll probably want to re-cap them unless those of you familiar with these say the caps are probably fine.

Not a lot of info available on these. All input welcome!

So many speakers, so little time.......

Kent

Congratulations Kent! Those cabinets look as if they will clean up like new. Whomever did the work on the woofer was sloppy with the glue but if they work I'd leave them alone. I'm confident in your ability to re do the surrounds but it may be difficult to get the glue loosened from the cone. You know more than I do about which chemical would dissolve the glue without harming the cone. I tried Goof Off on one woofer and it dissolved the glue but it also dissolved some of the cone in a small part. Keep us posted on your progress. I have read some of your projects and I'm really looking forward to this one. Thanks for posting the photos. Don

[JKent]

Thanks Don

Could not resist taking a peek. The caps are Callins. AKA crap. The black ones are PVC and very prone to failure. Johnnio can explain the whys, I just know they are junk. The metal cans OTOH may be fine. Will see if I can test them. So the plan now is to replace the 4uF, 8uF and 40uF PVC caps. I may leave the 24uF and 100uF cans, although I have a pair of 25uF Clarity Caps from my AR3 xo (did not use them when I changed it to 3a) so those may be pressed into service.

Kent

edit: Pictures moved to this thread:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=6565

[ar_pro]

Nice going, Kent - right place, right time.

I'd be concerned about the state of the woofer surrounds - done improperly, the characteristics of the driver could be altered.

You might want to take some close-up photos, and bounce them off Bill at Millersound for his truly expert opinion.

The caps are of the same quality found in the AR-9 and AR-91 (see the attached photos), and replacing them cannot hurt.

AR built the 9-series both with, and without the foam inserts. I consider their effect to be noticeable only in circumstances where the normal listening position is very close to the speakers - say within 10 feet.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no identical modern replacement available, and undamaged original inserts sell for more than the drivers do.

Don't lose any sleep over their absence, AR sure didn't.

[saad]

AR 91s a passion for some audiophile, like me, its quite a character. The mids are loud, natural, an excellent reproduction of vocal from especially LPs. the lows are wide can hear them from a distance with warm deep bass, the tweeters are sweet the ears. However Jazz music on the other hand is a bit harsh in the 91s. Overall its definitely a collectable. I wonder how many are there globally still sounding out there with great pride.

[saad]

Jkent, some tips if it helps you:

1) Careful with the ceramic resistors in the crossover, the aged leads could tip off.

2) Keep things original has much as possible

3) Staple the cross to the back baffle with gasket to prevent air leakage from the sp. input board connecting outside.

4) Can apply a thin flexible packing foam cutout as gasket to the driver's outer rim.

5) check the screws tightening the middle horizontal board, keeping the front- back baffles rigid

6) Put back the foam/glass wool packing as original.

7) Make sure the screws are tighten to the limit

As you know the AIR THIGHTNESS is THE KEY for the AR (OLDER editions like AR 91)

By this time you may have finished the project, may be. Then again since I myself is a big lover of AR 91, thought I should share it.

Regards.

[JKent]

Hi AR_Pro and saad

You may not have noticed but the thread continues here:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=6565

I had Bill LeGall of Millersound re-do the woofers and he did an outstanding job (as usual). I may never refoam another speaker because his work is so excellent, fast and reasonable.

Photos of the new xo are in the other thread. Everything was put back tight, with new gaskets.

Thanks for the interest.

Kent

[saad]

Well done Kent! thanks for sharing. Have a enjoyable listening with the AR 91s. May I ask what Amp u are using to power those babies.

Post a few pics of your total audio set up.

Thanks,

Saad.

[JKent]

Thanks Saad.

As far as the total audio setup, it's a work in progress. I use our rec room as my shop/vintage listening room. The plan is to "eventually" remodel the room so there are shelves to hold a variety of components. But right now the 91s are set up with temporary wiring, driven by an AudioSource Amp 100, a DB Systems preamp and a Tivoli CD player. The system on the shelf behind them is a MAC4100 receiver, Scott 350B tube tuner, Toshiba DVD player (for CDs) and AR3a speakers on shelves. There's a pair of MicroStatics sitting atop the ARs but not yet hooked up and a big VMPS sub on the floor that I disconnected when I switched from AR2ax's to 3a's.

So the plan is to be able to switch among sources (CD, 2 or 3 tuners, phono), at least 2 or 3 different amps, and maybe 3 sets of speakers. I don't know what kind of switch boxes will be needed to do all that. If anyone here has experience with that I'd like to hear some ideas. Basically what I want to do is set the room up like a stereo store's listening room, allowing comparisons of different components.

Photos will have to wait because everything is pretty chaotic now. Wish I had a real shop

Kent

[HarryM]

Kent,I might have missed it but I can't find anything on what you thought of them after you did all the work and would you do anything different if you did it again.I would like to know because I'm going to use your thread to rebuild mine.Thanks and post pics please.My 91's keep looking at me but I'm a little scared to touch them incase I screw them up.

[JKent]

Hi Harry

I moved the pictures to this thread: http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=6565

In summary: The woofers had been refoamed poorly so I sent them to Bill LeGall at Millersound and he made them like new! The capacitors were replaced with high quality caps from Erse (mostly). I left the original wire wound resistors. The cabinets were not sanded--I refinished them with Howard Restor-a-Finish and Minwax Antique Oil.

The sound is wonderful. I don't have them optimally placed in my room but they really are terrific speakers. The main speakers in that room, and my reference, are AR3a's with rebuilt crossovers and Hi-Vi tweeters. They are on shelves, a bit above ear level. The 91s sound a lot like the 3a's, as they should.

The foam diffraction rings around my tweeters and mids had deteriorated. It's my understanding AR stopped using them in later runs so I just left them off. One "could" make new ones by hand but it's probably not needed.

Your #1 priority should be the woofer foam surrounds. You can get a nice kit from M_Sound or, if you are afraid to tackle that, send them to Millersound or to CSP Member Carl's Custom Loudspeakers.

Good luck, Happy New Year, happy listening.

Kent

[HarryM]

Thanks Kent,you are a great motivator.I'm very new to this hobby but I'm getting right into it.I picked up a Marantz 2252b reciever to run my vintage speakers on since I don't think the sony 7.1 will do them justice and hope to be picking up a pair of AR 25's and a pair of AR somethings.The ad just says 2 large AR speakers but based on the pictures I think they are somewhere between an AR 8b to an AR 58b.My plan is to order surrounds for the speakers that need them from M_Sound including the ones for the 91's and the really rough AR 14's I got a couple of weeks ago and practice on the cheaper ones till I think I can do a good job on the 91's.I'm hopeing some day to be able to work on cross overs also.Because I think of this as being a hobby I would like to do the work on them myself.I don't just want to collect them,what would be the fun in that. Thanks again and Happy New Year.Harry.

[saad]

That's a lot of high end equip. Good luck with your listening room. And regarding those switch boxes, their components really matters a lot in the final reproduction of sound. If convenient, you can make a custom one with high quality electro-compos / use one very good preamp as switching with multiple ins and outs. Just a thought .

Hope your setup meets your high expecs.