the Kitchen is closed

[JKent]

Too bad. It provided a way for us to avoid ranting and personal attacks--just don't read the posts in the Kitchen. But I do understand that trying to keep a rein on things was getting to be too time-consuming. Let's just hope the "kitchen" battles don't find their way into the regular forums (again ).

Keep up the good work Mark & Gene!

Kent

[Pete B]

Too bad. It provided a way for us to avoid ranting and personal attacks--just don't read the posts in the Kitchen. But I do understand that trying to keep a rein on things was getting to be too time-consuming. Let's just hope the "kitchen" battles don't find their way into the regular forums (again ).

Keep up the good work Mark & Gene!

Kent

It is very sad, because among all the crap, I was really enjoying

the posts and insights by David Smith (Speaker Dave). We should

move the discussion somewhere else, probably DiyAudio as much

as that place is also having problems.

DiyAudio used to be an excellent forum, it has become much more

political, probably to boost traffic. Perhaps the owner is planning to

sell the place, who knows.

LinkedIn is another potential place to move the discussion. David is

there as are many other industry heavy weights. Olive, Toole, Keele,

and just about every one you can imagine.

[Carlspeak]

I agree with Pete B regarding moving to another forum. IMO, the technical discussions went well beyond the understanding of most who visit here and, most importantly, the original intent of CSP's creation.

[Pete B]

I agree with Pete B regarding moving to another forum. IMO, the technical discussions went well beyond the understanding of most who visit here and, most importantly, the original intent of CSP's creation.

Thanks for agreeing Carl, but I didn't mind it being here; we had

the Kitchen for off topic discussions and if the discussion went

to the ideal loudspeaker I see no problem with that. I just find

shutting down threads to be counter productive. I had a few more

things to say in that thread and now I can't.

[Zilch]

Notwithstanding the site's original intent, the in-depth exploration of vintage New England loudspeaker design which unfolded there could not have occurred anywhere else, and not likely ever will....

[Carlspeak]

Notwithstanding the site's original intent, the in-depth exploration of vintage New England loudspeaker design which unfolded there could not have occurred anywhere else, and not likely ever will....

Perhaps so. But for the 98% of those who read the threads and didn't understand most of what was discussed, what practical use can they take from it?

[Zilch]

Perhaps so. But for the 98% of those who read the threads and didn't understand most of what was discussed, what practical use can they take from it?

If The Kitchen were re-opened, perhaps we might discuss that.

Both Speaker Dave and RoyC alluded to the practical implications there....

[Robert_S]

I just find shutting down threads to be counter productive.

Likewise. Speaking as a regular visitor (though infrequent contributor), I enjoy(d) reading the lively discussions that surround and inform our collective understanding of 'classic' loudspeakers, and by extension, sound reproduction and all that that entails. The objective tangent that such technical debate necessitates may well tread on dreams, ignorance may be bliss, and feelings may run high -- but education, to my mind, is a worthy pursuit, regardless.

The intervening voice of moderation, as recently implemented, struck me as tending towards overzealousness. Perhaps, rather than thread/topic closure, a better peace-keeping strategy could be the removal of posts where the prime intention to disrupt, self-aggrandize or cause offence, is unambiguous. Even better, let the threads play out, in their own natural pace and life-span -- nobody was being forced to enter the kitchen.

I understand the motivation behind the recent administrative statement: "This website is maintained to help people repair their classic New England speakers, not to entertain", but feel that this site has always been far more interesting than just an online repair manual, and thought it may be selfish of me, I hope it remains so.

Unlock the kitchen!

Robert_S

[genek]

There were a number of potentially repair-and-restoration-useful purposes for technical discussions. Knowing how vintage driver performance compares to original new specs or to contemporary replacement candidates, for example, could save people a lot of time and/or money. Unfortunately, the useful gems were all buried under a never-ending parade of people more interested in trading snide remarks, self-promotions, bitter rants, accusations of bias and flat-out insults, and trying to moderate to discourage incivility without censoring content (you'll notice that even though now closed, all topics in the Kitchen continue to be viewable) or counseling individual members on their postings outside of PM proved to be an exercise in futility.

Some sort of tech talk forum may (stress may) return when the servers and IPB have been upgraded to provide more moderation options, but it's probably safe to say that if it does it's going to be a different environment with different rules. Mark has used the words "delete" and "ban" more times in the past couple of weeks than in the past couple of years; everyone would be well advised to remember that he's keeping CSP running out of his own pocket and that it's not a democracy, and avoid ticking him off again.

[Zilch]

The Kitchen was largely self-policing, and its popularity in substantial measure attributable to the vitality inherent in passionate proponents of divergent perspectives dukeing it out over technical issues.

Rare, indeed, and delicious; I'm damn glad I was there for the duration.

"I am your nemesis; I am life, sweet life, itself...." - David Gray

[Pete B]

Likewise. Speaking as a regular visitor (though infrequent contributor), I enjoy(d) reading the lively discussions that surround and inform our collective understanding of 'classic' loudspeakers, and by extension, sound reproduction and all that that entails. The objective tangent that such technical debate necessitates may well tread on dreams, ignorance may be bliss, and feelings may run high -- but education, to my mind, is a worthy pursuit, regardless.

The intervening voice of moderation, as recently implemented, struck me as tending towards overzealousness. Perhaps, rather than thread/topic closure, a better peace-keeping strategy could be the removal of posts where the prime intention to disrupt, self-aggrandize or cause offence, is unambiguous. Even better, let the threads play out, in their own natural pace and life-span -- nobody was being forced to enter the kitchen.

I understand the motivation behind the recent administrative statement: "This website is maintained to help people repair their classic New England speakers, not to entertain", but feel that this site has always been far more interesting than just an online repair manual, and thought it may be selfish of me, I hope it remains so.

Unlock the kitchen!

Robert_S

I agree completely.

I personally do not find mud slinging entertaining and I tend to stop reading

when it turns to that. As a matter of fact there are just a few contributors

who I essentially have on ignore in my mind and that works fine for me. I

would agree, let things just play out in the Kitchen if people don't like it then

don't read it, if there is anything overly offensive in the end delete the posts

or ban the poster for a week or month. There is much more to discuss than

repair and restoration, in fact the forum goes essentially dead when limited

to that.

[RoyC]

I agree with Pete B regarding moving to another forum. IMO, the technical discussions went well beyond the understanding of most who visit here and, most importantly, the original intent of CSP's creation.

....and much of the more "CSP pertinent" technical discussion in The Kitchen too often seemed secondary to the overriding drama, and repetitious nature of personal conflicts and ramblings; then it was almost always buried in a closed thread.

It would seem the practical application of technical discussion and insight (beyond in-kind repairs and maintenance) relating to "Classic New England Speakers", can still be discussed in the Mods, Tweaks, and Upgrades section of the forum. If things get nasty, or stray too far beyond the scope of this forum, the "delete" option is still available. Given Mark's concerns, and Gene's difficult moderating duties, a respite from The Kitchen, as it was, is worth a try, imo.

Roy

[Carlspeak]

....and much of the more "CSP pertinent" technical discussion in The Kitchen too often seemed secondary to the overriding drama, and repetitious nature of personal conflicts and ramblings; then it was almost always buried in a closed thread.

It would seem the practical application of technical discussion and insight (beyond in-kind repairs and maintenance) relating to "Classic New England Speakers", can still be discussed in the Mods, Tweaks, and Upgrades section of the forum. If things get nasty, or stray too far beyond the scope of this forum, the "delete" option is still available. Given Mark's concerns, and Gene's difficult moderating duties, a respite from The Kitchen, as it was, is worth a try, imo.

Roy

I second that motion....

[speaker dave]

Perhaps so. But for the 98% of those who read the threads and didn't understand most of what was discussed, what practical use can they take from it?

Well, back from vacation and I see that some distressing changes have happened. It is regretable that the kitchen is closed as well as that HF was able to delete all his past posts.

I guess I'd like to believe that some people, beyond the contributors, would read along and learn some from the various debates. A lot of ground was covered and fairly involved topics were exposed and explained. Sure the repetition of entrenched views could be tedious. I think the personal slings and arrows could better be handled by timeouts or eventual banning.

Although discussions weren't strictly about classic speakers, they were on something of interest to lovers of classic speakers and speaker design history. I think that was special and provided a lot of vitality to the forum.

David

[kkantor]

Sheesh, out of town for a few days, and the Kitchen is closed.

Even though I had some complaints, and wasn't hesistant to pass them along, I would have ideally liked the Kitchen to transcend the few posters dedicated to ritually abusing it. Ah well, I understand Mark's and Gene's realistic position. It was fun while it lasted!

-k

[Pete B]

It seemed to me that creation of the Kitchen section as what came across as an anything goes section encouraged the type of discussion that went on there.

I would like to see a section called technical discussion where the theory behind anything related to these speakers can be discussed. It is very unfortunate to shut the door on such discussion.

[speaker dave]

It seemed to me that creation of the Kitchen section as what came across as an anything goes section encouraged the type of discussion that went on there.

I would like to see a section called technical discussion where the theory behind anything related to these speakers can be discussed. It is very unfortunate to shut the door on such discussion.

Yep, or "Design Philosophy, Classic and Modern" That seemed to encompass a lot of the discussion.

David