Advent Restoration Article in "Stereophile" (May 2010)

[pgaron]

The May 2010 "Stereophile" magazine has an article by one of their columnists, Art Dudley, about his efforts to restore a pair of original Large Advent speakers that he happened upon on an antiquing trip. It's a fairly detailed article, with a lot of photos, and would interest many of the folks who follow this chat group.

Sometimes -- but not always -- the "Stereophile" print articles are posted on the magazine's Website, but this one hasn't shown up yet, so I cannot post a link.

pgaron

[Steve F]

It was an interesting article.

Three comments:

1. He made no mention of re-capping the crossover. (I don't remember the LA x-over--are there caps? Or just coils/resisters?)

2. He makes a very "Stereophile-esque" derisive comment about the sound of 'paper cones.' (As if the material that moves the air has any impact on the sound reaching your ears--unless the diaphragm material is obviously resonating, ringing, or otherwise misbehaving. But if not, then soundwaves are soundwaves.) I was at the original Advent factory on a BAS tour given by Andy Kotsatos (then "Petite"), and he showed us the rather complicated oatmeal-like "slurry" from which the tweeter diaphragms were pressed. To call them 'paper' is to do them a disservice.

3. He says the lack of metal tweeter grille indicates that these LA's were from the 1967-1970 time frame. Highly unlikely, since Advent began shipping product in 1969.

Steve F.

[Doug G.]

The original Advents would have either 2 16uF capacitors or 1 16uF capacitor and 1 8uF capacitor depending on the vintage. The 8 and 16 combination was begun in 1975.

I don't really hear any difference between the two versions. Not that I have done any serious test listening to see.

Of course, different cone materials can sound different but the cones in Advents are not your average paper cone in either the woofer OR the tweeter.

Wow! You are so lucky to have been able to visit the Advent factory, Steve.

Yes, through conversations in other forums, I have reached the conclusion that Mr. Dudley could have done just a wee bit more research before he wrote that article. This is the first I've heard of him with he date mix-up.

I haven't seen the article but others have said the woofers in the pair in question are all-metal replacements and that he incorrectly installed the surrounds with the roll concave (poking in) when the all-metal ones should, of course, have them convex (poking out). Can anybody confirm this?

Doug

[Carlspeak]

The original Advents would have either 2 16uF capacitors or 1 16uF capacitor and 1 8uF capacitor depending on the vintage. The 8 and 16 combination was begun in 1975.

I don't really hear any difference between the two versions. Not that I have done any serious test listening to see.

Of course, different cone materials can sound different but the cones in Advents are not your average paper cone in either the woofer OR the tweeter.

Wow! You are so lucky to have been able to visit the Advent factory, Steve.

Yes, through conversations in other forums, I have reached the conclusion that Mr. Dudley could have done just a wee bit more research before he wrote that article. This is the first I've heard of him with he date mix-up.

I haven't seen the article but others have said the woofers in the pair in question are all-metal replacements and that he incorrectly installed the surrounds with the roll concave (poking in) when the all-metal ones should, of course, have them convex (poking out). Can anybody confirm this?

Doug

I refoam metal frame Advent woofers with the roll facing out. Perhaps Art D. had the masonite version in his head when he decided to install his foams with the roll inward. I don't imagine the difference is earth-shattering. However, I haven't done any direct comparisons myself.

[MartyKuest]

Saw the article and have read the replies.

A number a valid points have been raised. There are a number of mistakes in the article such as the price of $116 being for the pair rather than per speaker.

If the picture of the "finished" speaker sans grill is correct, I believe the tweeter was install incorrectly. Thus the offset is to the outside when it should be to the inside. Accordingly, the grill cutout for the tweeter will not align. Interesting.

I do agree these speakers are quite good and certainly sufficient for my needs.

I do find it quite amazing that such an article would appear in a magazine that typically reviews components costing more money than I would dream of spending on an automobile.

[pgaron]

The May 2010 "Stereophile" magazine has an article by one of their columnists, Art Dudley, about his efforts to restore a pair of original Large Advent speakers that he happened upon on an antiquing trip. It's a fairly detailed article, with a lot of photos, and would interest many of the folks who follow this chat group.

Sometimes -- but not always -- the "Stereophile" print articles are posted on the magazine's Website, but this one hasn't shown up yet, so I cannot post a link.

pgaron

The Stereophile Website now has kindly posted a copy of Art Dudley's article on restoring old Advent speakers. It's available here:

http://www.stereophile.com/artdudleylistening/listening_89/

The posting also includes some letters that readers sent in response, and a "mea culpa" of sort by Mr. Dudley.

pgaron

[JKent]

The Stereophile Website now has kindly posted a copy of Art Dudley's article on restoring old Advent speakers. It's available here:

http://www.stereophile.com/artdudleylistening/listening_89/

The posting also includes some letters that readers sent in response, and a "mea culpa" of sort by Mr. Dudley.

pgaron

Now that it's finally online, the article is disappointing. My first reaction was "those sure don't LOOK like the OLAs in my basement awaiting restoration (photo below). One reason I'm dragging my feet is the complications associated with the Masonite woofer ring. So Mr. Dudley has the wrong woofers, incorrectly installed tweeters, 40-yr-old capacitors. No wonder he was underwhelmed. And you'd think he would have replaced the grille cloth so his daughter's speakers would be "pretty." Finally, his comments about diffraction made me think of Pete's BSC gizmo.

Maybe the good thing about the article is it won't motivate people to run out and buy up all the remaining OLAs

But maybe it WILL motivate me to get to work on my OLAs.

Kent

[Doug G.]

Actually, the one picture with a tweeter in it shows that it is, indeed, installed correctly (with the tweeter itself toward the outside). Too bad about the dent in it though.

The date thing isn't quite as egregious as it first seems because 1967 IS when Advent was created. It's just that the Advent Loudspeaker wasn't released until 1969.

The surround issue is the biggest gaff. Orange County Speakers sent him the wrong surrounds (or he ordered the wrong ones). The ones he used are for the masonite woofers because the outer flange is much wider than ones for the all-metal woofers.

The wider flange interferes with installation on all-metal woofers because the ledge for the surround on the basket is only about 1/8" and then starts going toward the gasket area at an angle. The flange on the surrounds is about 3/8" and, so, won't fit into the ledge. When you try to attach it, it will wrinkle on the angled surface.

It also appears that the surrounds are the thick, rubbery type with a small roll when they should be ultra-compliant (really floppy) with a 17mm-18mm roll.

Obviously, the woofers in Mr. Dudley's Advents had been replaced at some point but he used materials and procedures meant for masonite originals.

All that being said, it was still an entertaining article and it is wonderful that he wrote it and Stereophile published it.

Doug

[Pete B]

Now that it's finally online, the article is disappointing. My first reaction was "those sure don't LOOK like the OLAs in my basement awaiting restoration (photo below). One reason I'm dragging my feet is the complications associated with the Masonite woofer ring. So Mr. Dudley has the wrong woofers, incorrectly installed tweeters, 40-yr-old capacitors. No wonder he was underwhelmed. And you'd think he would have replaced the grille cloth so his daughter's speakers would be "pretty." Finally, his comments about diffraction made me think of Pete's BSC gizmo.

Maybe the good thing about the article is it won't motivate people to run out and buy up all the remaining OLAs

But maybe it WILL motivate me to get to work on my OLAs.

Kent

I just did a few more Advent woofers, Kent it is so easy!

You really should finish those and give a listen with BSC.

What is the issue with the masonite ring?

[Pete B]

The surround issue is the biggest gaff. Orange County Speakers sent him the wrong surrounds (or he ordered the wrong ones). The ones he used are for the masonite woofers because the outer flange is much wider than ones for the all-metal woofers.

The wider flange interferes with installation on all-metal woofers because the ledge for the surround on the basket is only about 1/8" and then starts going toward the gasket area at an angle. The flange on the surrounds is about 3/8" and, so, won't fit into the ledge. When you try to attach it, it will wrinkle on the angled surface.

Doug

I use the same foam for all the Advent woofers, the wide,

very compliant type with the narrow edge. Never used the

wide edge type and I don't recommend it.

[MartyKuest]

Actually, the one picture with a tweeter in it shows that it is, indeed, installed correctly (with the tweeter itself toward the outside). Too bad about the dent in it though.

The date thing isn't quite as egregious as it first seems because 1967 IS when Advent was created. It's just that the Advent Loudspeaker wasn't released until 1969.

The surround issue is the biggest gaff. Orange County Speakers sent him the wrong surrounds (or he ordered the wrong ones). The ones he used are for the masonite woofers because the outer flange is much wider than ones for the all-metal woofers.

The wider flange interferes with installation on all-metal woofers because the ledge for the surround on the basket is only about 1/8" and then starts going toward the gasket area at an angle. The flange on the surrounds is about 3/8" and, so, won't fit into the ledge. When you try to attach it, it will wrinkle on the angled surface.

It also appears that the surrounds are the thick, rubbery type with a small roll when they should be ultra-compliant (really floppy) with a 17mm-18mm roll.

Obviously, the woofers in Mr. Dudley's Advents had been replaced at some point but he used materials and procedures meant for masonite originals.

All that being said, it was still an entertaining article and it is wonderful that he wrote it and Stereophile published it.

Doug

Actually, your are correct about the tweeters and I was wrong. I had to check though. A while back I had installed mine backwards and then made the correction. Funny, I remembered doing just the reverse of what I had actually done.

Generally, I was pleased to see the article. All the points made about the surrounds are valid. My guess is that the surrounds were ordered according to the model and not the actual style of woofer.

My speakers are equiped both the masonite and the metal frames. Both styles seem to function pretty much the same. As a pair of mine (or even the featured pair) indicate, the metal frames were often used as replacements.

Marty

[Doug G.]

Nothing to be too embarrassed about on the tweeter thing, Marty.

These days, I'm surprised if I actually do things non-reversed compared to what I intend. \:^)

I use the narrow outer flange versions (originally meant for the all-metal version) for both styles of woofers too, Pete. They work fine.

We'll see how my acumen for reconing speakers holds out with doing the 15" CTS speaker in my son's Kustom guitar speaker system (mice removed half the cone while it was in storage in a shed). The gap seems to be a bit tighter than the Advent woofers.

EDIT: And you're right, Marty. After the masonite woofers were discontinued, if somebody needed a replacement for one of them, Advent sent them an all-metal woofer.

Doug

[Toomanyspeakers]

I sure am dredging this one up from the depths......

Just joined up here as I have, as my login suggests, not enough time to repair and listen to them. I remember seeing Advents on the walls in Sam The Record Man in downtown Toronto back in the early 80's when I would travel up from Stratford to check out the city as a teenager. They left a mark on my memory, and recently I found a pair.

I am working on a pair of The Advent Loudspeaker with the non masonite woofers, and would love some feedback from those who have refoamed a number of them. Finding the correct foams is a crap shoot, as I have discovered over the years.

[lARrybody]

Contact Rick Cobb at rcobb@tampabay.rr.com    He has the correct foams.