What to do with my AR-2ax's

[Jackal]

Hi all,

Today I responded to a craigslist ad, hoping to pick up a pair of project AR-2ax's. When I got to the location (over an hour away) I was greeted by a very nice 82 year old man who was selling the speakers. He took me to look at them, and they looked about right, had the AR-2ax badges and were both the right dimensions. He said he had owned them for over 30 years. When I asked if I could remove the covers to check the drivers, he said he didn't know how (I did, but I assumed he had never taken them off and didn't want me to). He had them hooked into a weak ~10W stereo, and they didn't sound all that great, but I figured the amp and dirty pots could explain it, and he agreed. I figured I had hit the jackpot - the classic "little old man and his vintage equipment" story. With a little work they would turn out great.

That all changed when I got home.

In the new light, I could see silver dust caps peering out at me. Uh oh. I removed the covers to find a serious suprise - both the mids and tweeters had been replaced, nay, hacked into, with very cheap units, and one cabinet was not what I expected. RoyC ID'd it for me as an AR-5 cabinet, right before I managed to get my thread closed over on AK (d'oh!).

Right now they sound like crap and don't match each other. So I'm looking for everyone's experience and wisdom on what I should do next.

Questions:

-Are those the original woofers? They look different than models I have seen, but I'm still learning about AR.

-My plan is to go back and explain the issues (not original mids / tweets, one cabinet is not AR-2ax, etc) and see if he will at least refund some of my dinero. Should I do this, and trade for a AR-2ax cab, or just look for a full refund?

-Assuming I can't trade them back, should I work to restore these? Part them out? I was looking for a project but I would need to find a new 2ax cab w/ crossovers, replacement tweets and mids, etc

I didn't even bother opening them up yet, I'm a bit worried as to what I might find. Plus, it might be harder to give them back if I do.

Opinions, oh wise ones, please. LIFE LESSON LEARNED!!!

Thanks, -Jack

[Zilch]

Did you print out the C/L ad? If not, do that if he has neglected to pull it.

Did it say they were AR2ax?

This is REALLY easy -- they AREN'T....

[JKent]

Hi again Jack

Sorry to see this. Unless you paid about $5 I'd say you got screwed. The 2 cabs don't even match (I think one is 2ax and one is 5) and the mids don't appear to match. And no--those don't look like original AR woofs (or they have been molested). About the only things of value are the nice brass "AR2ax" plates. I'd say take 'em back and insist on a refund.

If you do return them, you could post a "WTB" ad in the For Sale/Wanted section here. Some of us have "extra" speakers for sale.

Kent

[Jackal]

Did you print out the C/L ad? If not, do that if he has neglected to pull it.

That was my first idea, but the ad is already removed.

Did it say they were AR2ax?

Yes, most definitely. It has the badges on both grills, so at least at some point there existed two 2ax's, haha.

I wonder if he was tricked long ago and never knew it? Although the tweets and mids are very new for that...

How hard would it be to fab a new front, using the 2ax as a trace? I have access to a full workshop @ my dad's house, and have done some woodwork before. So could I cut out the current setup of the AR-5 and insert a correct one, since the external dimensions are more or less the same? This would be assuming he won't take them back, and I'm stuck with em. I WAS looking for a summer project after all....

I am going to remove one of the woofers to verify they are at least AR. I don't recognize them from other 2ax's I've seen. Maybe they were refoamed? The dust caps aren't original. I'll post some close-up pics later so everyone can see the hacked-in mess of tweeter and mid (the real reason why I'm so angry!!!).

SO my order of operations right now is

1). attempt to return the pair

2). attempt to get some of my money back if 1). fails.

3). track down replacement tweets / mids ( QUALITY modern placeholders via PartsExpress if the correct ones are too hard to find / expensive for my budget right now).

4). replace the face of the AR-5, assuming I can't find someone to trade for a AR-2ax cabinet.

Sound good?

Thanks all, -Jack

[Jackal]

Hi again Jack

Sorry to see this. Unless you paid about $5 I'd say you got screwed. The 2 cabs don't even match (I think one is 2ax and one is 5) and the mids don't appear to match. And no--those don't look like original AR woofs (or they have been molested). About the only things of value are the nice brass "AR2ax" plates. I'd say take 'em back and insist on a refund.

Don't forget about the tweeter jumpers! At least those are still there!

If you do return them, you could post a "WTB" ad in the For Sale/Wanted section here. Some of us have "extra" speakers for sale.

I will keep this in mind... I've missed out on a few local ebay auctions lately and was getting impatient. I guess I got too excited and jumped the gun on this one. I mean, come on, if you can't trust an 82 year old Lebanese man, who can you trust?

I forgot to mention he told me he is getting cataract surgery today, and I assume will be out of comission for a few days... doesn't help my case!

-Jack

[Jackal]

Here are some pictures....

If you are afraid of sad looking speakers turn away now...

I also opened up the cab to see what brand the woofer was... looks like we got a no-namer.

-Jack

[JKent]

Oh man, that sucks . You have my (our) sympathy. One would "think" buying from an old guy who'd had them for 30 years would be ideal but....

I can't imagine this being a worthwhile project. You would need new tweets, mids AND woofs--originals would cost more than another pair of speakers and "replacements" aren't going to cut it. And the cabinets don't look exactly pristine.

Here's a thought: If you can't return them, why not make some E-waves? If you're an AK reader you certainly know about those.

If you are looking for a "project" pair of 2ax's be patient--some have sold on ebay recently for under $100. You could get lucky.

Good luck

Kent

[Mexicomike]

Well, just because he's an 82 year old, doesn't make him stupid, slow, or honest. Probably knows full well what he was selling...

[Mexicomike]

Well, just because he's an 82 year old, doesn't make him stupid, slow, or honest. Probably knows full well what he was selling...

[soundminded]

Hi all,

Today I responded to a craigslist ad, hoping to pick up a pair of project AR-2ax's. When I got to the location (over an hour away) I was greeted by a very nice 82 year old man who was selling the speakers. He took me to look at them, and they looked about right, had the AR-2ax badges and were both the right dimensions. He said he had owned them for over 30 years. When I asked if I could remove the covers to check the drivers, he said he didn't know how (I did, but I assumed he had never taken them off and didn't want me to). He had them hooked into a weak ~10W stereo, and they didn't sound all that great, but I figured the amp and dirty pots could explain it, and he agreed. I figured I had hit the jackpot - the classic "little old man and his vintage equipment" story. With a little work they would turn out great.

That all changed when I got home.

In the new light, I could see silver dust caps peering out at me. Uh oh. I removed the covers to find a serious suprise - both the mids and tweeters had been replaced, nay, hacked into, with very cheap units, and one cabinet was not what I expected. RoyC ID'd it for me as an AR-5 cabinet, right before I managed to get my thread closed over on AK (d'oh!).

Right now they sound like crap and don't match each other. So I'm looking for everyone's experience and wisdom on what I should do next.

Questions:

-Are those the original woofers? They look different than models I have seen, but I'm still learning about AR.

-My plan is to go back and explain the issues (not original mids / tweets, one cabinet is not AR-2ax, etc) and see if he will at least refund some of my dinero. Should I do this, and trade for a AR-2ax cab, or just look for a full refund?

-Assuming I can't trade them back, should I work to restore these? Part them out? I was looking for a project but I would need to find a new 2ax cab w/ crossovers, replacement tweets and mids, etc

I didn't even bother opening them up yet, I'm a bit worried as to what I might find. Plus, it might be harder to give them back if I do.

Opinions, oh wise ones, please. LIFE LESSON LEARNED!!!

Thanks, -Jack

Opinions, oh wise guys, please.

I do not recommend pouring gasoline over them and setting them on fire although I must admit the thought would be tempting to me. There is a real risk the fumes could be toxic posing a health hazard and violating EPA regulations. Besides, in most places you'd probably need some kind of burning permit like with leaves in the autumn.

[soundminded]

Opinions, oh wise guys, please.

I do not recommend pouring gasoline over them and setting them on fire although I must admit the thought would be tempting to me. There is a real risk the fumes could be toxic posing a health hazard and violating EPA regulations. Besides, in most places you'd probably need some kind of burning permit like with leaves in the autumn.

If the 82 year old guy won't give you a refund, I don't recommend hitting him even if you think you could take him. Assault is a felony and most juries would not look kindly on giving an old geezer a knuckle sandwich unless his name is Bernie Madoff. There's always small claims court. And then there's.....Judge Judy!

[Jackal]

I do not recommend pouring gasoline over them and setting them on fire although I must admit the thought would be tempting to me. There is a real risk the fumes could be toxic posing a health hazard and violating EPA regulations. Besides, in most places you'd probably need some kind of burning permit like with leaves in the autumn.

Thanks, this just made my day

Seriously, if I can't get him to take them back, what would be redeemable from these cabinets? So far I have the grills and badges, the binding post nuts, at least some of the crossover circuits (maybe)... the el-cheapo drivers can go to my EE roommate, they are the same kind he uses for random side projects. Cabinets for spares / firewood

[Zilch]

See if this garners any traction, I mean, conceptually:

FRAUD!

[You also want reimbursement for your expenses, both ways, both times.... ]

[genek]

Did he have anything else around his place you could take in trade?

I've seen empty cabinets in decent shape with no drivers, just crossovers, sell for somewhere between $5 and $25 each. In the shape yours are in, they'd be at the lower end. The crossover pots can sometimes fetch $5 each, the rest of the components are all nickel and dime stuff of the sort where buyers pay as much for the postage as they do for the part.

[RoyC]

Opinions, oh wise ones, please. LIFE LESSON LEARNED!!!

Thanks, -Jack

Hey Jack,

I see you found your way to CSP! What did they do, close your AK thread because your speakers were too ugly?

I think the only order of business is to drop those things off on the old guy's doorstep, and get your dough back. The initial cost plus the work, time, and replacement parts you will need to make these relatively whole again could buy you a nice pair of restored 2axs. If you really want empty AR project cabinets, I have some candidates that are somewhat better than your beasts, free for the taking. Are you anywhere near upstate NY?

Hey, you want us to go rough up the old guy until he gives you your money back? It may take a number of us.

Roy

[mrbruce4]

Jack - If you can't return them and decide to not turn them into a huge project, I'd be very interested in the badges, if they are "2ax" and in decent condition.

I'm rehabbing a pair of 2ax right now and am just missing badges.

I need to acknowledge the valuable help that RoyC provided to me for my project.

Thanks

Bruce

[AR_nut_in_Oregon]

Jackal,

Looking at your original pics, I thought that the badges said "AR-2a" rather than "AR-2ax"

but after looking closer at mine, I see that the "x" is really small and may not be showing

up in your pic.

I know that is a "minor" issue compared to the hack job that was done on those.

Was there any remnants of the original labels left on the back of the cabinets?

That would give you a better idea of their origin.

I think Roy hit the nail on the head with his guess that you have both an AR-2ax cabinet and an AR-5

cabinet. I own a pair of each and noticed that the Tweet & Mid are arranged horizontally on the

AR-2ax, and in a diagonal orientation on the AR-5.

I do have a pair of "original" (yes, actual factory installed) 10" Woofers that came out of my 1972 AR-2ax

cabinets. I replaced them with the earlier AR-2 cloth surround types. And I do have a pair of AR-2ax Mids

(the ones with the metal grille).

I would be willing to make you a very reasonable deal on these if you are interested.

But, it sounds like you would have to do alot of work to get those cabinets into a place even close to

their original configuration.

The biggest issue is that the AR-2ax & AR-5 look similar enough from the outside, but are very different

on the inside.

See attached crossover diagrams for comparison...

AR_2ax_Connection_Diagram.pdf

AR_5_Connection_Diagram.pdf

Hope this helps...

[genek]

I have an old AR crossover in a box that I bought just to get the older, heavier-duty pots that were in it. It's either from a 2a or an early 2ax, don't know for sure. If it's 2ax, you could swap in the pots from the 5 crossover after I pull the ones I want.

[Jackal]

Hey all,

Called him today and he said he had NO idea about the driver swap. He said they were in the house when he bought it in the early 80's, and he only used them with a cheap low-watt amp to listen to the radio while working in the basement. He never hooked them up to a proper amplifier. When he went to sell them, his son told him they were valuable, but instead of going the ebay route, he put them on craigslist for half of what he saw as the ebay price of $250. His english is not 100% but I think he understood the situation. He just had serious eye surgery (I was told of this when I was picking them up) and needs a week to recover. I'll be bringing them back for him to inspect in person sometime next week. He said he'd give me a call when he was feeling better. I'll call on Tuesday if he hasn't already (1 week from the surgery date).

Hopefully I'll be able to get the majority if not all of my money back. I'll be sure to bring a picture of what a true AR-2ax looks like with the grill off. The one 2ax still has some of the label on the back, and, if I'm reading it right, was made in 10/73. I believe that would put it in the "new" 2ax category.

Thanks for your help, all! If anyone has any other suggestions for the situation, feel free to let me know!

-Jack

[Jackal]

I see you found your way to CSP! What did they do, close your AK thread because your speakers were too ugly?

Actually, it was because I added a bit at the end of my post asking if anyone was trying to get rid of any drivers (mostly joking), but wanted / for sale posts are not allowed in the speaker section over there.

Thanks again everyone for your support! Will keep you posted as this pans out.

-Jack

[genek]

Actually, it was because I added a bit at the end of my post asking if anyone was trying to get rid of any drivers (mostly joking), but wanted / for sale posts are not allowed in the speaker section over there.

Things are a little more casual here. You should post wanted/for sale items in the appropriate forum, but you're not going to get whacked on the side of the head if you ask about or mention availability as an aside to an ongoing conversation. Just avoid talking about money or making actual deals (those are usually best done offline even if you start in the wanted/for sale forum). If a post is wildly off-topic for the forum it's in, it'll just get moved to the appropriate place.

[Jackal]

Things are a little more casual here. You should post wanted/for sale items in the appropriate forum, but you're not going to get whacked on the side of the head if you ask about or mention availability as an aside to an ongoing conversation. Just avoid talking about money or making actual deals (those are usually best done offline even if you start in the wanted/for sale forum). If a post is wildly off-topic for the forum it's in, it'll just get moved to the appropriate place.

Got it. Now you understand my fear of making that first post, haha. Thanks for the heads up!

-Jack