Restoring the KLH 8

[administrator]

Thanks to Kent we now have an excellent KLH 8 restoration manual available in the Library. Check it out!

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library...lh_model_eight/

Mark

[Pete B]

Thanks to Kent we now have an excellent KLH 8 restoration manual available in the Library. Check it out!

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library...lh_model_eight/

Mark

Nice work Kent!

Not sure about the on off switch that you mention, but is this it here about half way

down the page, see: CTS SPST Rotary on-off power switch (D Shaft) .79ea:

http://apexjr.com/new.htm

That polished chassis looks fantastic, does that polish provide any protective coating?

A clear laquer might help, but is obviously difficult to do on a completed radio.

[RoyC]

Thanks to Kent we now have an excellent KLH 8 restoration manual available in the Library. Check it out!

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library...lh_model_eight/

Mark

VERY nice, Kent!

Roy

[boreas]

VERY nice, Kent!

Very nice indeed! Thanks for all your hard work.

By the way, a while ago, inspired by your description of filling/rebuilding large areas of damage with epoxy mixed with dyes, I tried a slight variation of your method.

What better way, I thought, to match the color of walnut than with walnut wood stain? So I tried it. First, I mixed up a batch of epoxy and added a couple of drops of Minwax penetrating stain. I then let the mixture cure to ensure that there was no incompatibility between the epoxy and the stain. There wasn't. The mixture cured a little slower but ultimately just as hard as plain unadulterated epoxy and worked quite well to rebuild a damaged corner on one of my Model Thirties.

Thanks again, Kent, for your efforts and inspiration.

John

[dick]

Very nice indeed! Thanks for all your hard work.

By the way, a while ago, inspired by your description of filling/rebuilding large areas of damage with epoxy mixed with dyes, I tried a slight variation of your method.

What better way, I thought, to match the color of walnut than with walnut wood stain? So I tried it. First, I mixed up a batch of epoxy and added a couple of drops of Minwax penetrating stain. I then let the mixture cure to ensure that there was no incompatibility between the epoxy and the stain. There wasn't. The mixture cured a little slower but ultimately just as hard as plain unadulterated epoxy and worked quite well to rebuild a damaged corner on one of my Model Thirties.

Thanks again, Kent, for your efforts and inspiration.

John

John and Kent --

You might also try actual walmut 'sanding dust' -- very fine pieces of walnut -- as an epoxy additive. This is not only a thickener to the epoxy but is the exact color that one wants. Well, close. The epoxy has some minor adulterating effects on the coloring that I've not mastered. I've used this method repeatedly and found it useful. But very fine sawdust is important as larger wood granules make it lumpy. Try, of course, on a test sample first.

[dick]

A note to Kent --

I found your KLH8 document (surely it rivals the AR3a restoration document in thoroughness and clarity) quite a wild ride back into those early teen years of tearing apart old radios, but of course you end up with something that, in the end, not only works but is handsome. I'd probably be decapitated if I were to venture into a KLH8 project, and with great justification for being too wide ranging. So I'm fairly certain 'll remain a KLH8 admirer, from a distance. However! Having gone to all the work, had all the fun, Kent...How does it sound?

[Andy]

Wow....very nice job. This will inspire folks to consider saving even the most neglected model Eight's. Thanks for starting the article with the link to my article in ARC. Mine hardly seems worth mentioning when compared to the detail you've provided.

Now people can clearly see the insides of the best radio ever made !

Andy

[boreas]

John and Kent --

You might also try actual walmut 'sanding dust' -- very fine pieces of walnut -- as an epoxy additive. This is not only a thickener to the epoxy but is the exact color that one wants. Well, close. The epoxy has some minor adulterating effects on the coloring that I've not mastered. I've used this method repeatedly and found it useful. But very fine sawdust is important as larger wood granules make it lumpy. Try, of course, on a test sample first.

Great idea! Thanks! With stain and perhaps with dye the amount you add to the epoxy influences the shade of the mixture. The amount needed can for a good match be pretty darned critical. On the other hand, I suspect that the amount of sanding dust is far less critical, maybe having little if any effect on color but instead determining the opacity of the mixture. Is that so, Dick?

As to the epoxy having an adulterative effect on the color, I've noticed that some brands of epoxy have a pale amber color to one of the two parts while in other brands both the epoxy and the hardener are clear. I wish I could remember which brand(s) were clear but it's easy to see just by looking at the package in the store. It stands to reason that the amber color would influence the color of the mixture. The clear epoxy may as well but, if so, probably very little.

John

[dick]

Great idea! Thanks! With stain and perhaps with dye the amount you add to the epoxy influences the shade of the mixture. The amount needed can for a good match be pretty darned critical. On the other hand, I suspect that the amount of sanding dust is far less critical, maybe having little if any effect on color but instead determining the opacity of the mixture. Is that so, Andy?

As to the epoxy having an adulterative effect on the color, I've noticed that some brands of epoxy have a pale amber color to one of the two parts while in other brands both the epoxy and the hardener are clear. I wish I could remember which brand(s) were clear but it's easy to see just by looking at the package in the store. It stands to reason that the amber color would influence the color of the mixture. The clear epoxy may as well but, if so, probably very little.

John

John,

There's a basic divide in epoxies. Polyester resins or 'real' epoxy. My epoxy background is in boatbuilding, thus I've been disciplined to use the real stuff which isn't as likely to unhinge itself with UV radiation as are the polyesters. Of the many brands of epoxy, I've used the following: a) the premium & overpriced brand, West Systems, and the lower cost but -- as far as our boat has advised over some 5+ years -- equivalent RAKA epoxy. Small quantites for Classic Speaker repairs are available via internet order from either company. Both are clear but when the catalytic reaction is over, I've not been able to reach a true match with real wood. It could be that I've worked almost excusively with woods from the South Pacific that are rich in non-rotting difficult oils. Experimentation with real walnut sawdust is a must. The owner of RAKA, Larry, is extremely well informed and would advise if you're inclined to telephone him; I've found him to be pretty darned good and on-target 100% of the time. (no connection here to any products or persons....)

[boreas]

Small quantites for Classic Speaker repairs are available via internet order from either company. Both are clear but when the catalytic reaction is over, I've not been able to reach a true match with real wood. It could be that I've worked almost excusively with woods from the South Pacific that are rich in non-rotting difficult oils. Experimentation with real walnut sawdust is a must.

Thank you, Dick. I never realized that some "epoxies" were in fact polyesters. Given what you've written about the true epoxies, I wonder whether the Devcons and Elmerses and Loctites et cetera are of the polyester variety. I continue to learn here!

As for color, I suspect that the crux of the problem is the fact that wood is not of a uniform color, while the tinted epoxy is. The grain of the wood contains different colors and shades and even an area which might actually be the same color as another will appear different because of the orientation of the wood fibers. That causes them to reflect and refract the light uniquely.

Real pro woodworkers like antique restorers will work with shellac sticks or, I suppose, epoxy to fill damaged areas and then color the area using grain painting techniques to blend the repair with the surrounding area. I've seen some astonishingly good work on fine furniture. You really can't see the repair at all. I've tried myself to do that from time to time and have done okay but I need a lot more practice before I'd undertake to do it for anyone other than myself.

John

[dick]

Thank you, Dick. I never realized that some "epoxies" were in fact polyesters. Given what you've written about the true epoxies, I wonder whether the Devcons and Elmerses and Loctites et cetera are of the polyester variety. I continue to learn here!

As for color, I suspect that the crux of the problem is the fact that wood is not of a uniform color, while the tinted epoxy is. The grain of the wood contains different colors and shades and even an area which might actually be the same color as another will appear different because of the orientation of the wood fibers. That causes them to reflect and refract the light uniquely.

Real pro woodworkers like antique restorers will work with shellac sticks or, I suppose, epoxy to fill damaged areas and then color the area using grain painting techniques to blend the repair with the surrounding area. I've seen some astonishingly good work on fine furniture. You really can't see the repair at all. I've tried myself to do that from time to time and have done okay but I need a lot more practice before I'd undertake to do it for anyone other than myself.

John

John --

I agree that the painterly work of expert furniture repairers can fool most of us.

Long ago I was warned about polyesters as not worthy of the effort one puts into whatever the project might be. That said, for restoration work, gap and break filling, I'd use the real epoxy instead of the small 2-tube sorts from hardware stores--but of course I've got leftover stuff here. But there's another item that worth a mention, and that is the value we might hold for aged objects. Why remove/hide these marks of history, the patina of age?

A famous furniture maker had a son named Kevin. The young fellow had a way of making his use of furniture known -- scratches, small gouges, etc. The results, according to the furniture maker, were a product of a process he called "Kevinization." What I'm warming up to is the idea that restoration to a state of perfection is, to my way of seeing it, ruining the speaker's history. For my use, I'm inclined to leave them, knock them down a notch, if they aren't serious. Serious corner breaks, etc., do well with epoxy repair inlcuding attempts to match adjcent wood color. Here's the RAKA "real" epoxy website address: http://www.raka.com/ -- they used to sell a small tester kit that might be enough for small speaker work. I believe they also sell pigments for use in epoxy. Larry is the boss man there and knows his stuff.

But on another note, I'm not convinced that the KLH8 is worth restoring because as a radio, surely today's transistorized receivers outshine the KLH8. I can see the fun of the restoration, but there's not yet any evidence that it'll be worth the time and money. Tell me I'm wrong, please.

[JKent]

Nice work Kent!

Not sure about the on off switch that you mention, but is this it here about half way

down the page, see: CTS SPST Rotary on-off power switch (D Shaft) .79ea:

http://apexjr.com/new.htm

That polished chassis looks fantastic, does that polish provide any protective coating?

A clear laquer might help, but is obviously difficult to do on a completed radio.

Thanks Pete and other members for your comments. I just got back from vacation and was very happy to see the article posted and all the feedback.

Pete, I did buy some of those switches from ApexJr but the shafts are a little short, and the D-shape profile of the shaft is a little too prounounced. The KLH shaft was flatted but not quite "D". I have been thinking about building the shaft up with JD Weld. Don't know if that would work.

I don't "think" the polish offers any protection--just looks neat!

Mark has asked me to write a short summary of the article. "KLH Restoration for Dummies" springs to mind but maybe I'll wait for the jet lag to fade.

Thanks again!

Kent

[JKent]

I'm not convinced that the KLH8 is worth restoring because as a radio, surely today's transistorized receivers outshine the KLH8. I can see the fun of the restoration, but there's not yet any evidence that it'll be worth the time and money. Tell me I'm wrong, please.

I'd be happy to: YOU'RE WRONG!!!

Sorry--first I should thank you for the RAKA link. Have you tried their wood flour filler? As others have pointed out, very fine walnut dust would be a good filler and coloring agent, although you will not get the "grain" and variation of course. Also, I've found that walnut dust tends to make an epoxy paste that dries darker than the original.

Back to the sound. Here is a quote from Andy's excellent article:

Many considered the Model Eight to be the world's first mini hi-fi. Model Eights produce crisp clear sound with impressive bass response for such a small speaker. When Kloss was confronted about the $159 selling price, he was heard to say, "It's a lot of money for a radio... but it's a lot of radio for the money!"

The Model Eight has a WONDERFUL sound that IMHO is not matched by any current transistor table radio. The Eight was hand-built in 1960 and was famous for its excellent FM reception. The separate Acoustic Suspension speaker is simply amazing.

I don't know what $159 1960 dollars would translate to today--that was back when a brand new Chevy cost about $2,000--but a radio of this quality just could not be made today because the cost would be prohibitive.

I don't want to get into another fight about the New England company that survived and thrived, but I would put my Eight up against you-know-whose "Wave"any day.

Is the restoration worth the time and money? You could ask the same question about the classic New England speakers we all love. Why restore an AR 3a--surely there "must" be better speakers that "outshine" them today

The subtitle of my restoration pamphlet is "the best radio ever built." That's my story and I'm stickin' to it! Of course YMMV.

Kent

[bjornklh]

JKent, thank you. and thank you for all the support working on my set. I finally found a tech around here and am going to have him check this set just in case it needs alignment or anything my amateur self forgot, but it is working great. i may still talk to you about restoration as well.

This pdf is amazing though, i am going to print a copy, it has sooo much useful information.

and yes i would agree with your opinion.

i have been in music my whole life and this set sounds more real then any table radio i have ever listened too. Sometimes it doesn't know what to do with real bass heavy electronic music, but when it was made i doubt there was a lot of jay-z tracks around. Incredible fidelity. you haven't heard guitar, jazz, or classical music until you hear it on this set.

And i compared it to good stuff too, and wow you can hear the difference between tube and solid state..

The thing i really don't get is how they could get something soo right almost 50 years ago and not make it anymore...

It is all due to the age of solid state, which for music was something of a sham. The public became convinced that tubes were bad old technology and solid state was better.. Ive read stories about people dumping their "crappy" old marantz tube stuff for new shiny solid state stuff in the 60s, which kind of makes me cry inside a little. this is due to the fact that solid state is much cheaper to make, disposable, and doesn't last forever like tubes if maintained. god forbid something works forever and you don't have to buy a new ______ (fill in the blank with assorted junk) every 3 years...

I cant imagine why companies wouldn't make it any more.

Plus Henry Kloss was a damn genius plain and simple. there i said it.

really everything he ever touched sounds great. well not everything, but close.

and he seemed pretty chill as a person from what i read. I still like that quote i read somewhere about how when klh got bought out by some cooperation and they cut xmas bonuses he cut personal checks from his account for his employees. Plus everything in his company was made fully in factory in mass in the USA. Like damn near every part if i remember correctly..

wow. ive really ranted here..

in any case thank you jkent, and stay in touch. =)

and if anyone questions this radio, buy one, put the work in to fix it up and add an opinion. =)

Also i know there are some old employees of the company out there, does anyone have anymore stories about the company? I find this stuff real fascinating.