SUPER SURROUNDS........?

[frankmarsi]

I've been seeking something better for my 12 inchers since I first realized that AR woofers

had an 'early good-by schedule' automatically built into to them just like some of the more attractive

women that have stepped into and out of my life.

I recall mentioning this before in an earlier post: http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Boar...;hl=frank+marsi

Damn-straight I was determined to speak my mind and wasn't-gonna-take-it-anymore!

Old AR's are just like women, they become higher maintance because you want 'them' so much! Women know it, your AR's know it, you've accepted it and humbly do the best you can.

Well like other general responses to some people's big mouths, I too was never answered directly by them. I just was looking back at other, older pages.

So here it is , found it tonite, they're making a surround for the 12 incher. Anyone care to ask them to at least show a photo or at least maybe they can send out a 'sell-sheet' to masses of 'AR-Heads'? If their higher price being possibly higher quality that may last longer or perform better, I'd be curious. Please come back with good news. I won't challenge them again, I've got to much at risk, my beautiful speakers, although these babies only sing what I ask 'them' to sing!

http://www.decware.com/newsite/repairs.html

FM, AR-aficionado human wreckage type of person at large.

[Carlspeak]

After much browsing the Decware site, I finally found their 11 inch AR surrounds selling as a 'special order' kit. They are termed 'original surrounds'. Not sure what they mean by that. I suspect it's original 'size'. Would certainly hope they don't have a stash of vintage surrounds left over from the 60's and 70's 'cause they too won't be much good.

Vintage AR sells a surround kit for your 3a eleven inch speakers at 1/2 the price of Decware. I'd trust Vintage AR more than a company that seems to repair speakers as a sideline. Decware's emphasis appears to be on tube gear and loudspeaker systems, not speaker repair. Vintage AR can be found at that large web auction site. Do a search. Larry's site will turn up.

[genek]

The fellow who refoamed my 3a woofers tells me that the foam used in today's surrounds is a different formulation from the foam used in the 70's and 80's and should last a lot longer. I won't know if he's right for another 15-20 years, but if we're all still around I'll get back to you on it.

[JKent]

Frank, fwiw I have been told by the helpful guy at M-Sound that all of the foam surround retailers are getting the foams from the same source and that the only difference to us, the consumers, is the price and quality of the "kit" each retailer puts together (and the quality of their service). Have you tried M-Sound? It seems to be a small 1-man shop and I have always been happy with the product and the support. And of course Carl is right about Larry at Vintage AR, although I have not personally used his foam kits.

Kent

[RoyC]

Frank, fwiw I have been told by the helpful guy at M-Sound that all of the foam surround retailers are getting the foams from the same source and that the only difference to us, the consumers, is the price and quality of the "kit" each retailer puts together (and the quality of their service). Have you tried M-Sound? It seems to be a small 1-man shop and I have always been happy with the product and the support. And of course Carl is right about Larry at Vintage AR, although I have not personally used his foam kits.

Kent

I have used the AR 12 inch woofer surround replacement (often listed as "11 inch") from Parts Express, M-Sound, and Vintage AR. They are indeed all selling the same 5/8" roll surround, and it works perfectly. I just completed 4 early 70's 3a woofers with these surrounds, and they all measure 17-18hz fs. It doesn't get any better than that.

There is a 1/2" roll surround being sold out there, which is less like the original. Simply Speakers sent me those a few years back, and I returned them.

Roy

[frankmarsi]

Dear members, thanks for the response. I have had numerous manufacturers versions of the 12 inch foams, going back to some of the very first ones I think were made in the early '90s.

Like I mentioned earlier I had one set from Parts-Express that really did look like my AR originals in'72, so I ordered more from them, none after were the same in appearance. I'm on the mindless quest to get ones that had that slightly almost moist and porous look to them and if anyone knows of a very slight shiny and somewhat sticky coating to apply, please advise.

FM

[Carlspeak]

I agree with Kent's assertion that all of the 5/8 inch roll surrounds come from the same supplier. It's most likely the same one I use. They are a wholesale distributor to re-sellers and service providers like myself. The OD is 10.5" and the ID is 8.25" with 5/8 inch roll. I'm told that surrounds made today are of an improved foam over the early models that tend to keep me in business.

FM, I agree M-Sound and Vintage AR are good choices to get your new surrounds.

[genek]

Dear members, thanks for the response. I have had numerous manufacturers versions of the 12 inch foams, going back to some of the very first ones I think were made in the early '90s.

Like I mentioned earlier I had one set from Parts-Express that really did look like my AR originals in'72, so I ordered more from them, none after were the same in appearance. I'm on the mindless quest to get ones that had that slightly almost moist and porous look to them and if anyone knows of a very slight shiny and somewhat sticky coating to apply, please advise.

I bought my foam-surround-fitted AR-2ax's brand, spanking new in 1975. They came from the factory with the grilles mounted with velcro and removable, and of course I looked inside. The foam surrounds on the woofers were neither shiny nor moist in appearance and did not feel the slightest bit sticky when new. They did develop that look as they aged, and became sticky enough to collect dust from the air just before they finally began to fail in the early 90's. Maybe that original foam isn't such a good thing to be questing for...

[Carlspeak]

My guess is shiny and sticky may refer to the coating used on cloth surround woofers on early AR's.

[genek]

My guess is shiny and sticky may refer to the coating used on cloth surround woofers on early AR's.

Those definitely were, but Frank appears to be on the hunt for foam surrounds with those characteristics.

[frankmarsi]

Those definitely were, but Frank appears to be on the hunt for foam surrounds with those characteristics.

Dear helpful CSP members, I know that I give everyone here a good running idea that I'm half crazy, but I can assure you that my AR-3a's surrounds were shiny, if nothing, than at least slightly so. Not shiny like those cheap looking coatings one can purchase for car speakers,etc.

But the amount of what appeared to look like moistness, especially in the corners where actual wood chips and filings from the cabinet making process were always present. As my speakers aged, like from '72 to '78 the surrounds had lost much of their shininess and seemed to dry out and look dull, however the shine still was in the 'corners'.

Again, I'm not saying they were 'car-speaker' like, but there was a definite coating involved on my surrounds.

To repeat, has anyone found a way to preserve surrounds with-out weighing the surround to act differently than designed.

FM

[genek]

Again, I'm not saying they were 'car-speaker' like, but there was a definite coating involved on my surrounds.

Since this was not evident on my ARs made 3 years after yours, consider the possiblity that it was something AR abandoned between '72 and '75 for a good reason...?

How long did it take your '72's surrounds to rot? My '75's lasted until the mid '90's, about 20 years.

[frankmarsi]

Hi genek, first replies from one another here, good to do so.

True, my surrounds did give out by 1982, but the 3a's were being stored and I saw the

surrounds when I took a peak at them. So that's '72 to '82 a period of 10 years, however

before I had stored them I saw pieces falling off.

FM

[bitbandit]

FWIW I have used surrounds from Simply Speakers, Vintage AR and Audiofriends.nl, on AR-3a's, 2AX's, 18S, 18BX and 58LS. Haven't had any duff ones yet. The oldest ones I have replaced are on the 58LS (11") about 7 years ago now and still looking good. I think apart from getting the correct roll width, the surrounds are pretty much the same in terms of compliance, at least the ones I have had are. Although others on here have found some to be "stiffer" than others, I haven't experienced this yet myself.

Oh, and I have had the 58LS from new in 1984 and the surrounds gave up around 2000 so 15-16 years out of the originals.

Dave