mike123 Posted June 7, 2020 Report Share Posted June 7, 2020 I'm finally working through troubleshooting a pair of AR3's that I inherited from my grandfather, the date inside has them made in 1962. They seem to be in rough shape, I have managed to refoam one of the woofers but the other is a slightly different size on the outside diameter and I haven't quite figured out how to get it to fit. Both speakers played at low volume sounded muffled with nothing coming from the mid or high as far as I could tell, I've removed the pots and got them back to feeling somewhat smooth but I've yet to put everything back together. Is it best for me to follow the AR3a restoration "manual" when troubleshooting these speakers or is there anything specific to these that requires extra attention? Are the caps located inside of the box in the cabinet and do they need to be replaced before I proceed to re-assemble? I may have follow-up questions as I move along but figured I would start here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lARrybody Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 Welcome Mike123. Your grandfather left you some quiet desirable AR speakers. As far as I know foam surrounds were not used in AR speakers until 1968 with the introduction of the AR 5. AR 3 woofers used cloth surrounds and usually don't need replaced. Post some pictures of your woofers and someone can help identify them. And yes the caps are located inside the speaker box and probably should be replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike123 Posted June 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 The one with the black around the edge is the one that does not fit to the foam (17xxx) and has that wooden ring loose. They are different so maybe he started to replace the woofer for one of them? Not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike123 Posted June 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 Is there a recommended way to access the box containing the caps? It looks like the bracket is riveted down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD70 Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 Hi Mike, Nice 3s, but unfortunate for the woofers issue. The woofer missing the surround with the foam ring around the dust cap is a correct 3 woofer, but the cloth surround has been removed. It was originally glued to the Masonite ring, which was glued to the basket. The 2nd woofer is a later model woofer. Maybe for the 3a, or another model. We would need to see the magnet and numbers. Being that the 3 is very desirable and valuable, you should really get correct woofers with the cloth surrounds. Occasionally I've seen these refoamed, but could never figure out why, unless they were severely damaged, or, look like yours. Woofers show up on eBay fairly often, so I'd start looking for good clean replacements. The mids are known to have greatly diminished output due to the original white soft sealer around the dome base petrifying, which keeps the dome from moving. Roy C. rebuilds the mids, in fact he currently has a set of mine as well as my tweeters for restoration. Original mids are very difficult to find, and extremely expensive when they do show up. A set sold on eBay for 400 last month! The pots are another known issue with many ARs as they corrode inside blocking the signal to the mids and tweeters. They often have no sound. Sometimes twisting the pot knobs back and forth a lot will find a spot bringing the driver back to life. That wax block contains the caps. Replace them. Match the values printed on the block. How are the cabs and grills? Please post pics showing their condition. Are you handy working with wood and finishes? These will require a lot of work, and money to properly restore them back to close to original sound, but well worth it. I've got two sets, one fully restored, and they sound phenominal! Look on eBay to get an idea of the prices these command. You got yours for free! The 3a restoration guide is an excellent guide to read and follow for repairs. Many can be applied to the 3. Also, may I suggest you read through my 3 restoration thread here. Lots of good info you may find helpful. Cheers, Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike123 Posted June 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 I'll post pictures of the cabinets shortly, I'm fairly confident in my ability to refinish, I've seen Watco Danish Oil recommended for staining, is dark walnut the "right" color for these or do I pick one of my liking? Also I've checked the hi's and mid's and only the tweeters are returning a resistance value, ~2.3 Ohm. Both mids seem to be open. Does restoration have a chance at fixing the internals or am I dead in the water? Also for the correct woofer, if I find a cloth surround that fits the dimensions is there any reason not to use it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike123 Posted June 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 The first two is the cab that's in rougher shape, the other on isn't as beat up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike123 Posted June 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 Grill covers, one is broken in one spot so I'll probably salvage the fabric and make new, sturdier frames Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lARrybody Posted June 13, 2020 Report Share Posted June 13, 2020 Once you get the cabinets sanded I would use the Natural Watco Danish Finish. Be careful with the sanding especially at the edges. The venere is very thin and easy to sand thru. I would start with a 120 grit with light pressure and then go to a 180 or 240 grit. Here are some pictures of some AR2ax walnut speakers with five applications of Watco Natural finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD70 Posted August 1, 2020 Report Share Posted August 1, 2020 On 6/13/2020 at 4:51 PM, mike123 said: I'll post pictures of the cabinets shortly, I'm fairly confident in my ability to refinish, I've seen Watco Danish Oil recommended for staining, is dark walnut the "right" color for these or do I pick one of my liking? Also I've checked the hi's and mid's and only the tweeters are returning a resistance value, ~2.3 Ohm. Both mids seem to be open. Does restoration have a chance at fixing the internals or am I dead in the water? Also for the correct woofer, if I find a cloth surround that fits the dimensions is there any reason not to use it? Send the mids to Roy. See what he says. Regarding the woofers, you will not find cloth surrounds in the wild. You need to get the complete woofers. The cabs finish And color is up to you, but natural color watcos is what I’ve used on all the restorations I’ve done, and sometimes I mix in medium or dark walnut color where color matching is required. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD70 Posted August 1, 2020 Report Share Posted August 1, 2020 On 6/13/2020 at 5:10 PM, mike123 said: Grill covers, one is broken in one spot so I'll probably salvage the fabric and make new, sturdier frames So these are 3a grills with the linen material. One of my sets has these, obviously replaced.. The 3 grills are a completely different material called Saran. It’s actually a plastic weave, and the frames are plastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted August 3, 2020 Report Share Posted August 3, 2020 On 7/31/2020 at 8:49 PM, GD70 said: So these are 3a grills with the linen material. One of my sets has these, obviously replaced.. The 3 grills are a completely different material called Saran. It’s actually a plastic weave, and the frames are plastic. I believe some 3s had Masonite frames but be that as it may, there are 2 options for refreshing the grilles. One would be to use the Wichelt 18 count linen in "lambswool" color from 123 Stitch, as described in the AR-3a restoration guide. The other would be to use the original Mellotone plastic. It is still manufactured but to buy from Mellotone requires buying a large roll. IIRC there is an outfit in Canada that sells smaller pieces: https://qcomponents.ca/Mellotone/ It's a little tricky to work with. When I did my grilles I didn't get good tight creases around the edges--should have used a hair dryer. The linen is definitely easier to work with but not as authentic. Mellotone DF7022 is correct. I have some reproduction "3" and "AR" badges. Here is the 3 on Mellotone. PM me if interested. Kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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