BAWSME Posted December 16, 2019 Report Share Posted December 16, 2019 Hello and thank you in advanced for your assistance. This is my first post on CSP and I’m so happy I found this forum as there is a treasure trove of helpful info about AR speakers. I am most of the way through my AR2AX restoration having already rejuvenated the cabinets and refoamed the woofers. Next I’m readying the replacement HiVi tweeters with inductor for install. I want to front wire the tweeters for ease of changing back to the original black domed tweets in case I have them rebuilt in the future. I read somewhere to use 22 ga wire from tweeter tabs to the brass posts. I have no 22 ga wire but do have plenty of CAT 5 wire which I think uses braided pairs of 23 ga copper wire. Would a single wire or a braided pair from Cat5 be sufficient? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aadams Posted December 16, 2019 Report Share Posted December 16, 2019 It will look better than 18 gauge but Cat5 is solid copper single strand. Multiple strands might be easier to work with and better for the application. OTOH the originals were single copper strands without a plastic sheath so go for it. Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 I bought a pair of the HIVI Q1 tweeters a couple of years ago. I intended to install them in my 3a's but other projects interfered. Now I don't recall how they needed to be wired into the existing crossover. I believe a 0.05 mH coil was needed. Don't really recall and have no idea how the coil (if needed) was to be wired. I intended to front wire them as well. Would someone give me a bit of guidance, perhaps a wiring diagram? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 Der I’m away from home and can’t access my computer for photos so I hope others will jump in here. The coil can be glued to the back of the tweeter, usually with a small spacer. It’s wired in parallel with the tweet Kent ps: search this forum. Should be lots of info and pics of the Hi Vi mod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aadams Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 15 hours ago, der said: I bought a pair of the HIVI Q1 tweeters a couple of years ago. I intended to install them in my 3a's but other projects interfered. Now I don't recall how they needed to be wired into the existing crossover. I believe a 0.05 mH coil was needed. Don't really recall and have no idea how the coil (if needed) was to be wired. I intended to front wire them as well. Would someone give me a bit of guidance, perhaps a wiring diagram? Thanks! Der Here is a link that should help http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?/topic/9817-hivi-q1r-install/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 Thanks - I tried searching but didn't come up with that thread for some reason. Likely a senior moment! This morning I found my HIVI's in a box my wife had stored for me. She has a habit of "storing" things in places that only she is aware of. I am now reminded that I attached 0.05 mH coils to the back of the tweeters. That coil is to be wired in parallel with the tweeter terminals then? I also have a pair of 6.2 uF caps in the box. Not positive how they're to be wired. I do appreciate the help and patience. der Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 I just finished up replacing one of my original AR3a tweeters with the HiVi. I used a 0.05mH coil but not a cap. I have to postpone doing the other one for a few hours. I did do some listening with just the one replaced. Better output but I am not sure the dispersion is the same as the original. I believe I'll be doing some adjustments with the L-pads. The original level controls were replaced several years ago when I rebuilt the crossovers. I'll post further impressions when I get them both done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Posted January 4, 2020 Report Share Posted January 4, 2020 I finished up the second speaker last night. As I said, I used the 0.05mH coil but no cap. Polarity is standard. After doing some listening and adjustment of the L-pads I find that I enjoy the change very much. Makes me wonder why these HIVI's have been sitting in a box the last 2-3 years. I've owned these 3a's for over 50 years now and they now sound better than ever. I remember thinking way back when that I thought the tweeters were the weakest part of the speaker. Now, soon to be 73 years old with hearing that certainly isn't what it used to be I find this mod very satisfying. Wonderful to find all the great information provided by many on this site. Thank you all and Happy New Year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAWSME Posted January 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 16 hours ago, der said: I finished up the second speaker last night. As I said, I used the 0.05mH coil but no cap. Polarity is standard. After doing some listening and adjustment of the L-pads I find that I enjoy the change very much. Makes me wonder why these HIVI's have been sitting in a box the last 2-3 years. I've owned these 3a's for over 50 years now and they now sound better than ever. I remember thinking way back when that I thought the tweeters were the weakest part of the speaker. Now, soon to be 73 years old with hearing that certainly isn't what it used to be I find this mod very satisfying. Wonderful to find all the great information provided by many on this site. Thank you all and Happy New Year! Hi Der - Thank you for sharing about your HiVi tweeter install. I hope I will be as satisfied as you. I’m still not quite finished with my AR2ax restore/mod. I finally drilled the holes in the tweeter face for front wiring to the brass posts. I’m also adding a .05mh coil along with new film cap and new potentiometer. I hope to be completed in two weeks. Did you wire your tweeter from the front or back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 I front wired them because my pair have front wired mids and tweeters. I'm wondering if I should have included a capacitor or not. I can use the increase in tweeter output at my age but I wonder if the HiVi are reproducing down in the midrange now to some degree. After a couple of days listening it seems I prefer the tweeter L-pads just past half way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 3 hours ago, der said: I'm wondering if I should have included a capacitor or not. Hi der, I always enjoy reading your posts, but I cannot understand exactly what you are saying here for the third time. Earlier, you mentioned having some 6.2uF caps - - - are you saying your new tweeter circuits have no cap at all, or simply that you have not replaced the old cap with a new cap? Which type of original caps do (did) your 3a's have for the tweeter, and have you evaluated them in any way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aadams Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 4 hours ago, der said: I front wired them because my pair have front wired mids and tweeters. I'm wondering if I should have included a capacitor or not. I can use the increase in tweeter output at my age but I wonder if the HiVi are reproducing down in the midrange now to some degree. After a couple of days listening it seems I prefer the tweeter L-pads just past half way. I think you will need a RoyC answer on this one. My impression is, the coil does most of the work in preventing intrusion into the mid range but maybe the added cap tailors the blending at the crossover point. Keep your old tweeters for possible rebuild. Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 3 hours ago, ra.ra said: Hi der, I always enjoy reading your posts, but I cannot understand exactly what you are saying here for the third time. Earlier, you mentioned having some 6.2uF caps - - - are you saying your new tweeter circuits have no cap at all, or simply that you have not replaced the old cap with a new cap? Which type of original caps do (did) your 3a's have for the tweeter, and have you evaluated them in any way? My apologies for the confusion. I have a pair of 6.2 uF caps that I did not use with the HiVi tweeters. The HiVi's do have a0.05mH coil on each. The cap I referred to was an additional cap. My crossover network is the same as the original. I just replaced the old, out of spec caps with new ones. I've also swapped out the old pots with L-pads. Again, sorry for the confusion. der Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted January 5, 2020 Report Share Posted January 5, 2020 Thanks for both responses. I am aware of the coil used with this replacement driver, but perhaps I have not been following all of the latest thoughts regarding the best cap value for the Hi-Vi install, and my confusion was trying to understand which configuration der had adopted for his 3a project. I know RoyC has continued to share his evolving recommendations on this matter, to which we are all grateful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Posted January 12, 2020 Report Share Posted January 12, 2020 Now that I've spent some time listening to these new HiVi tweeters and getting levels adjusted to my satisfaction I am very happy with the addition. Even my tired old ears hear a vast improvement in the treble. I am contemplating having my original tweeters rebuilt but I have my doubts that they'll match the HiVi even then. Does anyone think differently? der Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aadams Posted January 12, 2020 Report Share Posted January 12, 2020 1 hour ago, der said: I am contemplating having my original tweeters rebuilt but I have my doubts that they'll match the HiVi even then. My two cents. You are unlikely to notice the difference unless you listen to recordings that successfully capture the live quality of a large venue performance and you also have another speaker with which to compare. So, I am saying no big payoff but I wouldn't dump those original tweeters. Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted January 12, 2020 Report Share Posted January 12, 2020 Agree. Save, sell or give the originals to someone interested in doing a 100% authentic restoration, but the Hi-Vis are good and at our age we will never hear a significant difference. Having said that, Roy's rebuild is excellent and people say chris's is as well. Kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Posted January 13, 2020 Report Share Posted January 13, 2020 Thanks for the replies. I have my originals tweeters boxed up and ready to send off for rebuild. I don't intend on discarding them. I also don't intend on ever selling my 3a. either. My son will inherit them. I wonder if he'll appreciate them however. He is a musician (rock) that seems more enamored with satellites with sub-woofers. I'm also wondering if just using the inductor and not a cap has resulted in the HiVi reproducing some of the upper mid-range that the originals didn't. Or, is the addition of the cap help attenuate the output of the modern tweeter to closer approximate the original AR? Perhaps that's something that Roy can address. I have been able to adjust the new tweeters to my satisfaction by using the L-pads. I'm thinking of digging out my old test records to fine tune the levels and balances. der Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aadams Posted January 13, 2020 Report Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, der said: has resulted in the HiVi reproducing some of the upper mid-range that the originals didn't. Der You haven't mentioned what you consider to be upper mid range. The trick that Roy's mod performs is the blending in the crossover area that closely mimics the transition of the original tweeter but the HiVi does not match the dispersion of the original above the crossover point. The rebuilt originals from both Roy and Chris easily match the sonic performance of a correctly adapted HiVi but hearing the difference in the 5k to 8k range without having a reference speaker will be difficult unless your ear is finely tuned. The good news is you can't go wrong either way. Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Posted January 13, 2020 Report Share Posted January 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, Aadams said: Der You haven't mentioned what you consider to be upper mid range. The trick that Roy's mod performs is the blending in the crossover area that closely mimics the transition of the original tweeter but the HiVi does not match the dispersion of the original above the crossover point. The rebuilt originals from both Roy and Chris easily match the sonic performance of a correctly adapted HiVi but hearing the difference in the 5k to 8k range without having a reference speaker will be difficult unless your ear is finally tuned. The good news is you can't go wrong either way. Adams I've found that I obtain a more pleasing balance by adjusting the L-pads on the mid ranges down a bit from where they were before installing the new tweeters. This cause me to think that the HiVi tweeters are reproducing part of the mid range band. I've adjusted the L-pads controlling the tweeters a great deal since installing the HiVi - from full on to just past halfway. Of course, the settings on my left and right speakers vary a bit because of their positioning in the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aadams Posted January 13, 2020 Report Share Posted January 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, der said: I've found that I obtain a more pleasing balance by adjusting the L-pads on the mid ranges down a bit from where they were before installing the new tweeters. I see your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted January 13, 2020 Report Share Posted January 13, 2020 3 hours ago, der said: I'm also wondering if just using the inductor and not a cap has resulted in the HiVi reproducing some of the upper mid-range that the originals didn't. Or, is the addition of the cap help attenuate the output of the modern tweeter to closer approximate the original AR? Perhaps that's something that Roy can address. I have been able to adjust the new tweeters to my satisfaction by using the L-pads. I'm thinking of digging out my old test records to fine tune the levels and balances. der der, Your assumption is correct. The addition of the 6uf series cap to the existing 6uf crossover cap decreases the total to 3uf, which raises the crossover frequency between the tweeter and the mid...reducing the tweeter's influence on the mid frequencies. Before adding the additional capacitor you should try a few things: 1) Do not reverse the polarity of the HiVi tweeter. If you have, change it back to that of the mid and woofer.. 2) Since you have stated you are using L-pads, place the 25 ohm resistor across the midrange if you haven't already done so. 3) if you have done #1 and #2, place a 25 ohm resistor across the tweeter. 4) If you have done all of the above and still feel the upper mid frequencies are too strong, try reducing the tweeter cap value as described above. Do some extended listening before deciding to implement this one. If you decide to go with rebuilt original tweeters, be sure to have 25 ohm resistors across the new tweeters as well as the mids if you continue to use L-pads. Roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Posted January 13, 2020 Report Share Posted January 13, 2020 Thanks Roy, great information. I wired the HiVis with the same polarity as the other drivers. I'll have to check my parts box for 25 ohm resistors. Likely have some already. I do have a couple of 6.2 uF 1% or 5% caps that I can wire in as well. I assume in series on the + side or does it matter? der Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted January 13, 2020 Report Share Posted January 13, 2020 54 minutes ago, der said: I do have a couple of 6.2 uF 1% or 5% caps that I can wire in as well. I assume in series on the + side or does it matter? der It doesn't matter, but the series caps are on the negative side of the 3a crossover if you want to be consistent. Roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Posted January 13, 2020 Report Share Posted January 13, 2020 48 minutes ago, RoyC said: It doesn't matter, but the series caps are on the negative side of the 3a crossover if you want to be consistent. Roy Thanks. I rebuilt my crossovers about 4-5 years ago but couldn't remember. I'll put them on the negative side. der Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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