ra.ra Posted September 11, 2019 Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 1 hour ago, ChrisM said: ...gallon can of Toluene... You should be able to find this in quart container - - - not sure about your state, but it's legal here and available in many good hardware stores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisM Posted September 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 Thanks ra.ra. It kinda looks like Startex is a East Coast thing. I am in Washington State near Seattle. I can't find any quart cans just the gallon. I could, if necessary, use Xylene which I can get in quarts. Roy said it is OK to use but if I can I'd rather get the real thing. I'll keep looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisM Posted September 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2019 Inspired by the link Pete B suggested about tweeter renovation, I reached out to Richard So the ADS rebuild god. I am now in contact with him and will report his thoughts on the topic of light weight goop for mid-ranges and 12.5s. More to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisM Posted September 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2019 Richard said he couldn't sell me his sealant and asked which drivers we were talking about. I sent him a even more detailed description of the 12.5s and the AD5060s and the fact that we have a most excellent sealant but I have concerns about using it on the little guys. I said since he is expert at putting sealant on cloth (ADS tweets and mids), I would appreciate any insights he might have. His response..... "I have done AR woofer surrounds in the past with cloth surround sealer. I think you should find the original coating to use on your drivers." Needless to say somewhat disappointing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisM Posted September 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2019 So I ended up getting an entire gallon of Toluene and thinned out some of Roy's goo. In a non-scientific way, I would say that the result was about half as thick. I have some totally beat up 11 portable speakers which are essentially unrestorable because of the case so I didn't feel bad about harvesting a driver to try the thinned goo on. It would appear that there is more than one variety of 12.5 which I hadn't realized. The ones out of the portable have a different surround from the ones in my 11w's. I haven't looked yet at any of my 14's. The material is cloth with a clearish sealant. The ones from the 11w are more like a gauze with a black sealant. The cloth ones also have a lower Fs. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTally Posted September 20, 2019 Report Share Posted September 20, 2019 On 9/19/2019 at 11:43 AM, ChrisM said: So I ended up getting an entire gallon of Toluene and thinned out some of Roy's goo. In a non-scientific way, I would say that the result was about half as thick. I have some totally beat up 11 portable speakers which are essentially unrestorable because of the case so I didn't feel bad about harvesting a driver to try the thinned goo on. It would appear that there is more than one variety of 12.5 which I hadn't realized. The ones out of the portable have a different surround from the ones in my 11w's. I haven't looked yet at any of my 14's. The material is cloth with a clearish sealant. The ones from the 11w are more like a gauze with a black sealant. The cloth ones also have a lower Fs. Any ideas? KLH cloth surrounds are generally either brown/tan or black. I believe that the black surrounds were that way from the factory and just had carbon black added to the doping material. RoyC's goop will work on either type. I know 'cuz my KLJ Sixes have brown surrounds and my Twenties have black surrounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisM Posted September 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 True, but my point was about what it is made out of rather than the color. The tweeter in the Model 24 and the 3" fullrange from a Model 8 have similar surrounds to my 12.5s out of the 11 portable. I've looked at a lot of pictures on Google and all the 12.5s appear to have the gauzy surround with black or clear goop. I would have thought someone else here had seen some like mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ra.ra Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 Hi ChrisM, if you have observed some subtle difference in the cloth surrounds from various drivers, the very best way to receive specific feedback to your questions would be to post a few well-focused good quality pics (± 100KB is fine) for readers to see the situation you are trying to describe. This is very easy to do, and it is always helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisM Posted September 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 First the Family Portrait. The 2 on the left are the gauze type and the 2 on the right are the cloth type. The top right one is a Model 24 tweeter. And here is a closeup of the bottom 12.5s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisM Posted October 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2019 Sorry for the upside down close up picture. No ideas on the different surrounds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisM Posted March 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2020 So no one has any insight on this? ra.ra said add pictures. I did and nada. I realize this forum is mostly about restoration not the technical aspects of the speakers but correct restoration does depend on using the correct drivers. Maybe if this was about AR's it would get more traction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aadams Posted March 16, 2020 Report Share Posted March 16, 2020 2 hours ago, ChrisM said: Maybe if this about AR's it would get more traction. You are asking specific questions about KLH drivers in a place where few vintage KLH experts now exist . You could solicit comments from RoyC who might have an idea. Even if this were an AR forum topic there only ever was one, perhaps two who could provide the type of answer you seek and they are now rarely on the site. Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKent Posted March 16, 2020 Report Share Posted March 16, 2020 I’ve worked with a lot of those 12.5 drivers and just never paid any mind to the apparent differences. Sorry I can’t be of any help. Kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisM Posted March 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Aadams said: You are asking specific questions about KLH drivers in a place where few vintage KLH experts now exist . You could solicit comments from RoyC who might have an idea. Even if this were an AR forum topic there only ever was one, perhaps two who could provide the type of answer you seek and they are now rarely on the site. Well then, I guess my little discoveries are elevating me to the vanishing breed of KLH experts.? I have talked to RoyC about surrounds a few times but not about this 12.5 issue. Maybe he'll chime in. 29 minutes ago, JKent said: I’ve worked with a lot of those 12.5 drivers and just never paid any mind to the apparent differences. Sorry I can’t be of any help. No problemo but you might keep your eye out for the cloth ones. I haven't performed any other measurements other than the initial ones where I discovered the lower Fs. Hopefully someday..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Pearce Posted March 16, 2020 Report Share Posted March 16, 2020 You guys are amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyC Posted March 16, 2020 Report Share Posted March 16, 2020 1 hour ago, ChrisM said: Well then, I guess my little discoveries are elevating me to the vanishing breed of KLH experts.? I have talked to RoyC about surrounds a few times but not about this 12.5 issue. Maybe he'll chime in. Chris, Based on my experience with KLH speakers you are chasing a non-existent (and unattainable) degree of precision. There are simply no standards or specs for you to use as a guide...and I seriously doubt KLH publicly shared various changes in materials and manufacturing methods as they evolved. In fact, it is likely the mids will not benefit from any re-treatment at all, regardless of the apparent differences. Roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisM Posted March 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2020 19 minutes ago, RoyC said: Based on my experience with KLH speakers you are chasing a non-existent (and unattainable) degree of precision. Nonsense! Oh wait, you're probably right but why should that stop me?? Enquiring minds.... The QA at KLH did leave something to be desired judging from all the ones I have and ones I've worked on for others. Henry's performance target seems to have been within a price target. I keep hoping some ancient ex-KLH person will come out of the woodwork and enlighten me. Over on the preeminent KEF site there are a few ex-KEF guys who hit us over the head with facts all the time. It has more of an engineering bent than CSP. What's sort of amusing is that I am a total "B" type personality; definitely "Oscar" not "Felix". The only thing I'm OCD about is speakers and I don't know why. No detail too small to get my undivided attention, etc etc.? Thanks, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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