newandold
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Posts posted by newandold
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14 hours ago, Jill said:
Hi! My husband bought a pair of Allison speakers at an estate sale about 20 years ago. We’d like to know if they’re worth keeping now that we’re buying a new TV. The sound quality is good.
Should we keep them, sell them or throw them out?
Thanks
Jill,
If the sound is “good” as you say just continue to enjoy them, regardless of what you do about the TV ?.
One has nothing to do with the other.I’ve replaced my TV 3 times while still keeping the old Allisons. Mine are 33 years old. My “newer” Allisons, similar to yours are babies at a mere 26 years of age!
Bill
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4 hours ago, nbman said:
Glenn,
Mind if I ask what you saw that makes you think that? I know you have tons of experience with these speakers...Thanks.
Also, I did find the culprit I believe..not the speakers at all. In a way, Roy was right. It was in the electronics. Not the amp, but the DAC. I use a NAD DAC2, and usually have the laptop in the audio room, but when I brought these home, my wife was using it in another room, I was eager to listen, so I just hooked them up and let it go from there. As far as I can tell, the signal must have been spotty causing the static..Several hours yesterday with various sources, and all is well. Clean, clear and sweet. Now for some stands...
Thanks
Glad to hear you were able to isolate the noise issue.
Congratulations on your very fine acquisition! (And I like that woodwork in your room also!)
Extraordinary....to grab LST’s at that age and be able to just plug and play without issues! (Very cool)
Best of luck with them
Bill
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On 1/6/2020 at 7:14 PM, nbman said:
Hi all, I'm new here, from Eastern Canada..picked up a pair of AR LST-2's tonight..other than the grill cloth, they appear to all original?, all drivers working..cabinets are nice, but there is some slight "crackling" every once in awhile..not much, and not often..maybe 2-3 times in an hour..I see there are a few AR aficionados that might chime in with opinions/advice...Thanks
It’s a methodical process.....going thru each section of these wide dispersion speakers until you get to the source of the noise/ distortion.
I’ve had 2 not so distant cousins to the LST’s ....The Allison:One and The Allison IC 20.....6 and 10 driver cabinets respectively.
The A1’s I bought new, so nothing to do but play, but the IC 20’s were a 25 year old (at acquisition time) labor of “love”.
The short story of how I got them ready to go back into service was to bring one system at a time (with my new hand truck) into my listening room and swapped it with the existing right loudspeaker. With the woofers removed, I evaluated the performance of each midrange and tweeter (all series wired) and isolated any noise/distortion issues.
With the aid of Millersound in Pennsylvania, I had the voice coils in 3 midrange drivers realigned,
a handful of questionable solder joints redone, and a rebuild of the (4) in my case woofers which included replacing the spiders and the surrounds.
Other detail work also done, but without getting totally lost in this since it’s a different system then what you have acquired, the point is, evaluating each section individually is the key (including the crossovers) to isolating the “crackling” noise.
Bill
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On 1/9/2020 at 6:30 PM, intrique45 said:
Maybe it was this? Wire touching the frame and shorting out?
Have to be very careful when removing and reinstalling the woofers. Those nonconducting tabs that secure the leads can easily end up like yours if they bang the cabinet.
Bill
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2 hours ago, intrique45 said:
Hi thanks for your input My concern is that there are no problems with the CD7 in the back channel I guess the B channel may get less wattage then the A channel so they dont clip?
I just played two CD s for about an hour at moderate to loud volume and no problems with any speaker. Thats why I lean toward s the CD7 Maybe the ferrofuid in the tweeters are dried up or the cap is dried up and when under a high wattage load it creates the clipping??
"The NAD design principles recognize that the minimum impedance of most speakers is somewhat lower than their nominal ratings. It is not uncommon for the impedance of a "4-ohm" speaker to fall as low as 2.5 ohms at some frequencies. If two sets of such speakers are operated in parallel, an amplifier with limited current capability may produce distorted sound or even overheat and shut down under prolonged or high-level operation. To help deal with this problem, NAD provides a switch in the rear of the Model 7140 receiver to reduce the operating voltage on its output transistors when driving loads of 4 ohms or less (this is designated the "normal" setting). When the switch is set to its "8-ohm" position, the increased power-supply voltage enables the amplifier to deliver its maximum output to nominally 8-ohm speakers."
…..Interesting read regarding your receiver.
When I first read your post, my suspicions were about the amplifier section of your receiver and how well or not it could handle the load of 2 pair of Allisons over a long period of time.
Nothing lasts forever, and my first suspicions are that your amplifier section is getting "tired" sorry to say.
In 43 years of dealing with the Allison Loudspeaker, I've never seen the kind of trouble you are experiencing be attributable to a ferrofluid or cap condition.
Bill
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Congratulations and such an amazing journey for those prizes!
I have a soft spot in my heart ❤️ (and my ears) for any and all of those ultra wide dispersion loudspeakers that came out of BOTH acoustic research and Allison Acoustics, of course both of which Roy Allison had his hands in.
I never had the opportunity to hear those predecessors to the Allison One (if I may call them that) but after being around the AR drivers for so many years and experiencing RA’s A1 and The IC 20, I’ve got a pretty good idea of how cool they MUST be.
Bill
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Highly unlikely the capacitors in the Allisons are causing your problems.
The resistors in the CD7s are internal, thermal overload protection for the drivers and I’ve heard of instances of them going bad.
You could bypass them and be careful of overdrivng the speakers but leave the original caps alone -
On 1/2/2020 at 11:14 AM, Kenbuchan said:
Is this the model one
I can’t post a photo buts its a 10 speaker cabinet. It’s beautiful. I cannot find any info about them and no model number is given
The Allison 20 was the only 10 speaker (driver) cabinet to ever come from Allison.
Plenty of info available here on this site about them.
The Allison One was a six driver cabinet.
Bill
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On 11/30/2019 at 9:25 AM, JeffS said:
While AR wasn't offering an 8" 3-way with domes, the 'relatives' over at Allison were, and in two flavors, floorstanding and bookshelf. I've always been intrigued by the Allison:Eight / CD-8. This picture from Audiokarma illustrates both versions (in the front row).
The original Allison Eight (on the ends) would make for an awesome center channel speaker for the right setup.
Bill
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That is extraordinary and fun to look at for sure.
A number of things come to mind as an experienced Ebayer buyer and seller.
A bulk sale such as that is a bust unless the buyer “steals” them (relatively speaking) an resells them individually over time.....either way, a daunting task....putting cabs like that together with individuals who have ALL the drivers, parts and the necessary skills to replicate (as advertised) working systems.
Yeah, a few guys (mostly here) could pull it off but a pipe dream essentially.
Bill
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On 11/4/2019 at 4:27 PM, teknofossil said:
I am testing some Allison drivers, made in 1984. I noticed the Q measured with a DATS v2 is considerably different. I know the ferro fluid gets gummy with age and /or heavy use. Any thoughts on this?
Thanks,
Tom
Hi Tom,
I have only used “ear measurements” on that wonderful convex driver, ever since I first owned them in 1977, in the Allison:One.
A few guys on the Yahoo forum years ago, talked about “renewing” the fluids, both the silicone grease in the tweeters, (3 way) and the ferrofluid here, but there were never posted completed, before and after test measurement results. I missed them if they are out there.
Back in 2012, I sent 3 of the newer midrange units out to Bill Legall to re-center the voice coils (slight rubbing). I never asked him if he touched or did anything with the cooling material.
Once you get continuity and sound out of that midrange, there are only two things I’ve noticed that radically impact the sound.
A damaged voice coil, which sounds typically like any other blown driver, and the voice coil rub, which is awful when it happens....adding distortion that kills the show.
Actually, there is one other, and that is over tightening, or unevenly securing the midrange into the cabinet.
This problem, I believe, is unique to the midrange with the newer plastic bezels. Over tightening that one stresses the voice coil and reduces the drivers normal output volume.Bill
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On 10/28/2019 at 11:40 PM, StuBotNJ said:
I bought a pair of CD9 from a private seller on letgo that had an unfortunate collision with an unknown object while in the care of its previous owner. One speaker was perfect the other had a tweeter with a missing dust cap and its left wire severed. The midrange had a wire barely hanging on neither had a signal.
I proceeded to search for drivers and quickly learned that most every driver is the same through most models starting with the One. The Nine, which my CD9 is based on differs in crossover and bi amp-ability but aside from the 10" woofer in the 9, the midrange and the tweeters look identical to one through six, naked without any grilles, all the grilles depend on an exterior grill with these convex delicate paper drivers.
The "big auction site" as they say, had many drivers, most every tweeter and midrange in 2019 cost $125-175 each.
I finally found a guy who had a few hundred new old stock direct from the original Allison company in MA, boxed in formed stock Styrofoam that were designated for mobile auto installations. Theae were the same exact drivers as mine in the CD9 but with metal grilles attached to protect them.
Same magnet, same nipple shaped tweeter with the leads running to the edges, same midrange. Also more importantly from the supplied spec sheet, identical magnet weight, frequency range and power handling @ 4ohms
I got the tweeters first then ordered the midrange, both in pairs, both sets cost less than $180 a pair. He may have some left.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Ay6V3DW49WnoZy2VA
https://photos.app.goo.gl/TTZLbPLRahzmwF4r7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/44hceVLH8m8BshuF8
https://photos.app.goo.gl/UQVm63t9xurqpErZA
https://photos.app.goo.gl/NvTySJjeXWt1PXJm8
You bought the wrong tweeters, unfortunately.
You CAN, get away with using them in the 9, but you bought 2 way tweeters designed to operate to spec. In models 4, 5, 6, and 7.
They look identical, but use ferrofluid, rather than silicone grease cooling material.
These days, you’re lucky to come up with anything at all.
Bill
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14 minutes ago, LouB said:
Aargh!
The boss would give me a quizzical look and ask “ Why is is again, that we need these extra two speakers and all these confusing controls? “
Admittedly, I'm too lucky in that regard.
Not long ago, someone saw my living room and said it looks like a bachelor's pad.
My bride is a huge fan of the Home Theater, and that has given me creative license in that room.
A 115 lb. subwoofer sits in the corner, and I think it was at least a year before she even asked me what that was.
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2 hours ago, frankmarsi said:
I find AR-LST's can be fussy about placement, even more so than regular 'box' speakers. Placement is paramount and more so than with conventional speakers.
Many of the set-ups I've seen here tell me the listener is not getting their full level of greatness, in fact most I've seen are incorrectly set-up.
The first two rooms I had them in caused them too suffer to a degree. It wasn't until I had them in the room they're in presently in have they bloomed into their full glory. However, I have learned early on like all acoustic suspension speakers, placement is critical and especially so with the 'LST'.
When I relocated to where I am now, I was especially excited about how they would sound. I knew a rectangular room that afforded me a free 'front-wall' was the key. And although initially I tried placing them 3/4 into the room before I cleared the front wall, their sound was less than acceptable and their bass-response was at best dreadful. The 'front-wall' with long converging side walls assisted greatly and proved ultimately necessary.
Many non-cognoscenti do not realize this, thus they don't realize this speaker's full capability of stunning bass. Why they offer more bass response than a AR-3a has been enigmatic for me all these years but, why question greatness? Their 'huge' quality of sound output is simply sublime. So much so, that I am truly grateful I own them and that I finally have them in the type of room they demand. I seek no other speaker for my listening pleasure. And that's a fact, jack! So, I'm not certain if I own them or, they own me.
So, I say to you Bill and all, when you do have a opportunity to listen to the 'AR-LST' be aware of set-up and placement otherwise you may be sorely disappointed. And of course, as always, the requisite high power amplification is just as important. All the while it must be in mind that 'far-field' listening is what their design also demands.
So yes, they are truly fussy but, isn't anything else in life that's truly worth it seem to be?
P.S. I am not a casual listener, and I approve of this message.
FM
Then, the Ebay advertisement photos, must make you cringe just a bit.
The distance from the side walls is good but too much gear in the corners choking off the reflective effects of the systems.
I started with the Allison:One in 1977 and have had the opportunity to test every placement option of the non box, prism (or semi) within reason and the design parameters.
I found 3 to 4 feet away from an unobstructed corner is cruicial to get the best out of them.
Optimization of the bass is much different, when comparing the LST to the A1, or IC20, as the latter are floor standing systems.
Bill
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1 hour ago, LouB said:
Hi Bill,
Back when I was in high school I remember that a buddy used a Dynaco Quadraptor.
It was kinda cool, a soundstage was created which complimented most material nicely.
IIRC he had a pair of large KLH for the front and a couple of 8" Fisher (maybe XP-56) for the rear.
I hadn't thought of using this preamp to take advantage of the effect.
Since this is for the living room system which also is a Video setup with 2 channel audio, this could be fun.
The only smaller ones I have right now are a pair of diminutive DLK 1/4.
I have a Crown D75 I could use for the back channels.
I'm imagining that balancing the whole mess can be tricky.
Aaaahhh.... So much fun, So little time....
You said it!
If you wanted to go the quasi surround (quad) mode and stay vintage, the Phase Linear 4000 is still not too hard to come up with.
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I think that’s the right number for LST’s in such fine condition.
That number is right about where I was back in 2012, when bidding on a pair of Roy Allison’s IC 20’s.
Always I compare the values of those two systems that RA had his hands on.
I’ve yet to have the chance to hear the LST and be able to judge the differences for myself.
Bill
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17 hours ago, LouB said:
Hi Bill,
I had gotten the 2000 about a month ago.
It is quite spacious under the hood.
Mr. Carver could almost have put it into a pack of Kools!
After receiving it it was unbalanced and grainy.
Replacement of the caps helped, but I experienced the phenomenon of "capacitor aging" I had always sneered at.
After running it continuously for a week or so the sound quality was astoundingly better.
Think it'll be a nice pairing with the DH-120.
Lou
Hi Lou,
Yes I agree it should be an excellent paring.
I made use of that “Ambience” circuitry, continually and kept it around 2 o’clock or so....opened up the soundstage nicely.
Some purists have a tendency to dismiss that kind of embellishment, but my ears liked it!
Years later when I made one serious system for both film and music, I was back to Carver (Sunfire) with his Theater Grand Processor that has an evolved version of that circuitry.
Bill
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Seen this one...….? Miles Davis with the 2ax
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I had an 11 year plus run with the Phase Linear 2000 preamp that I bought new, around 1978.
Very clean and neutral sound. It’s not as dead quiet as other preamps between source material, but a minimal issue. It should pair nicely with the Hafler, but I ran mine with the Phase 400.
I also had a pair of the 2ax, but they were long gone by the time I got to that point.
I think you’ll have a great combination on your hands with that setup.
Very Spartan inside that 2000, When you take off the cover, there’s almost nothing in there! (Compared to a modern component)
Bill
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On 9/16/2019 at 10:45 PM, petteyr said:
Hi, I am looking for the crossover schematics for the Allison Threes.
I have a set of late model cherry Allison Threes, and a set of early first gens.
Crossovers look totally different.
Turns out I don’t have hard copy on the THREE crossover....however I forgot about saved files on another computer of mine that has a good size Allison File.
I’ll check that in a few days and won’t post on this again unless there’s a file attached!
Bill
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On 9/16/2019 at 10:45 PM, petteyr said:
Hi, I am looking for the crossover schematics for the Allison Threes.
I have a set of late model cherry Allison Threes, and a set of early first gens.
Crossovers look totally different.
I’m pretty sure I have a copy of the original 3 schematic. Away for a few days but will post it when I get back.
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11 hours ago, austingonzo said:
I picked up a pair of Ohm Walsh 4XO's off of Craigslist this evening.
I know this is the Allison forum, so let me make the post topical. I've seen a number of you mention that your Allisons have made the migration into your home theater setups. How has that worked? Is there some special magic to making them sound wonderful after YPAO, MCAC, Audessy or Dirac is finished doing their magic? Are you using them in a 5.1 setup? Are you dropping the subs and center channels?
I'm asking because when I had first tried hooking the CD-7's to my Pioneer Elite (not rated for 4 ohms, by the way), ran MCAC with the designated mic, ensured that the speakers were set to small and crossover to my sub set at 80 Hz, the Allisons just sounded like they were drained of all life.
In short, what's the best way to bring dispersion speakers into home theater and retain some quality of sound - especially for occasional 2 or 2.1 channel listening?
austingonzo
The sound of the Allison Acoustics loudspeaker is superlative in, or out of the Home Theater ? environment.
Automated room correction can be helpful when a particular room presents certain challenges but isn’t absolutely essential....powerful manual calibration can handle the job fine and sometimes better especially with Subwoofer integration.
I use my 29 driver Allison system for both music and film and rely on an individual base line set up calibration for each.
Bill
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3 hours ago, petteyr said:
I found 2 pairs of what the seller is calling Allison One woofers.
They look nothing like my original Allisons.
No markings what so ever.
The od of the magnets are 120mm.
The dust covers are 85mm.
Smooth cones.
4 ohm .
Seller claims they where pulled from an early vintage Allison One. Pre 80s, as tweeters and midranges had the side leads to be used with the front panel posts.
The spiders are huge compared to my oem Allisons.
I am thinking these are some Chinese knock offs.
I know these observations are somewhat subjective.
Maybe I could find a local shop that can test them and get the TS parameters.
I have seen 10 inch 4ohm woofs that looked like these also come from Allison. I bought 1, guessing around 1994. Only difference from your pictures was that the cone had a protective coating painted on it. It sounded fine, mixed in one cabinet with an original, unlike the eminence.
Those last years of Allison saw many changes as they were going out of business, transitioning to Stanford Acoustics among other things, that I know only bits and pieces of.
Outsourcing woofers was definitely one of those things, so it’s very possible the woofers you show, though not originals may very well have once shipped from the company.
Bill
Old Allison speakers
in Allison
Posted
Hi Jill,
Those AL 120’s are in the 32 year plus age range. The woofers (the larger of the two drivers) are installed with one reversed, to smooth the bass with the lowest possible distortion. Allison had 5 models that I know of (I’ve got one of them) that used the same arrangement.
The two problems with those speakers are the surrounds on the woofers, and the availability of a tweeter, should one blow out.
How far you need to go with those systems right now, depends on “how hard you play”.
If you don’t drive them terribly loud, you COULD go for a while yet without having the woofers redone.
Bill