newandold
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Posts posted by newandold
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On 7/18/2019 at 10:19 PM, petteyr said:
Thanks for the observations.
What I would like to see are the metrics for the inside of the ic10 box.
I realize these are rare.
I am just curious about the ic10s compared to the Ones.
Allison states that the exterior of the ic10 is the same as the One.
The tweeters and midst are basically the same as well.
The ic10s front panels does seem to extend a bit more than the Ones..
The ic10s are about 1250 cu inches bigger than the Ones. That is nearly the volume of a A4 (1265 cu in).
Allison measured internal volume without factoring in displacement of drives...just gross volume.
I verified this on my A3, C8s.
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This is an older replacement woofer, from Allison Acoustics, appearing much closer to the original.
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On 7/18/2019 at 11:14 PM, petteyr said:
Are there visual difference between the Eminence replacement and an original?
Would you have a photo of the replacement Eminence woofer?
Just want to be sure if I find a woofer, I can identify the Eminence version.
Per your experience with these, we should steer clear of these for replacements in our A1, A3, A9, CD9s?
Are the T/S parameters the same on the Eminence version as the original OEM Allisons?
r
From top to bottom: This composite pic. shows 3way tweeter, midrange and woofers offered by Allison around 2001 or so, with the Eminence woofer pictured on the bottom. The non ribbed cone and and large dust cover are very distinguishable from the originals.
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31 minutes ago, petteyr said:
Are there visual difference between the Eminence replacement and an original?
Would you have a photo of the replacement Eminence woofer?
Just want to be sure if I find a woofer, I can identify the Eminence version.
Per your experience with these, we should steer clear of these for replacements in our A1, A3, A9, CD9s?
Are the T/S parameters the same on the Eminence version as the original OEM Allisons?
The hour is late, but I have plenty of pictures.....give me a couple of days, and I'll put them up! The Eminence has a much larger dust cap and cone that distinguish it from the originals.
I think they would be fine for All except in the A1's they need to go in as a matched pair. Additionally, the gaskets need to be doubled up when you put 2 in the old A1 cabinets otherwise, the magnets bang into each other, as they were intended for the newer generation A1. circa 2002.
Bill
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14 minutes ago, petteyr said:
Greetings,
I understand that the later oem replacement woofers for Allison One woofers were made by Eminence for Allison.
How different are these from the originals? Does anyone have photos of them or Thiele/Small parameters?
I see on ebay someone is selling Allison One speakers. ..too cheap, don't look like mine.
I have one of those “eminence” woofers NOS. that I bought in 2000. Actually, I bought 2 at the time. One went away on EBay inside one of the A1 speakers sold off years ago. I should sell this one soon before the surround deteriorates.
At that time they were approved by RA in the reincarnated A1s but I found out they don’t mix well (One Eminence, one original) in the same cabinet. I was using a Subwoofer with an 80hz. Crossover, so the difference under those conditions was not a problem.
Bill
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10 hours ago, petteyr said:
I was comparing published speaker volumes for the Allison IC10 and the Ones.
The IC10 published volume is 3800 cu inches, while the Ones say 2550 cu inches.
Here is the issue, both speakers have the same published external dimensions : 40x19x10.75 inches.
Essentially, the same boxes. The primary difference being the woofers.
The IC10 have 8 inch (push pull) and the Ones are 10 inch.
So, what gives with the published internal volumes?
Are there some baffles or bulkheads in the Ones that reduces volume?
The IC10 Cab. Is an entirely different animal as opposed to the A1.
Don’t know if the internal measurements were published with or without the cabs. Populated, but certainly, both A1 drivers forward facing take up much more internal cabinet volume than the 8 inchers with one being inverted on the 10.
Front panels on the IC are not flush, but more flush than the One, adding yet more internal volume.
Note that the center wood strip in the front of the IC prism is nearly twice as wide as on the A1, that yields more cab. volume within the same dimensions.
Bill
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On 2/20/2019 at 11:09 AM, mikezohsix said:
Hi Bill -
Think I've contacted you before about your IC20's. The idea of owning something like them has never let go since the day I got my new-to-me A:1's working correctly. Short story on them, they turned up in CL, about 3 hours from my house, but not too far from my dad, so made a trip to pick them up. Got them home, and was very disappointed in the sound, just no life. A friend of mine at work, also active here, Teknofossil, had the schematic. Turned out most of the drivers were not wired correctly, so the "pairs" were fighting each other rather than work together. Fixed the wiring, and love at first listen - they're playing Cat Stevens as I type this!
I retired last week, and am looking for projects. Over the last 18 months or so I collected some A:1 tweeters and was given four mids and some common A:1 to IC20 cross over components (again by Teknofossil - thanks Tom!) with the idea that I'd build "tops" for my A:1's that would mimic the IC20, with a new cross over of course. This would be a quick and reversible path to at least get a feel for whether I'd want to build IC20 cabinets.
So with all that said, would you provide the center to center distance of the MTTM array from you speakers?
This will give me the cabinet dimensions for my "tops", to start my project.
Many thanks,
Mike
Hi Mike,
Curious, did you ever pursue this?
Bill
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36 minutes ago, JKent said:
As austingonzo pointed out, the CD7s are 4 Ohms. Brochure for the Sevens here: https://www.usahifi.com/sites/default/files/product/512/manuals/Allison 7 8 9 Loudspeakers Brochure.pdf
I don't know how the CD-7 differed from the Seven but I'm guessing the impedance stayed the same. Austin: Placement is critical with Allisons. I think yours have to be flat against a wall. Check out the recommendations fro AR-3a speakers, also 4 Ohms. I use an Adcom 555 but there are very powerful new Crown and Behringer amps that folks like.
I use 4 Ohm Cizeks and front speakers in my home theater. My Onkyo AV receiver can handle 4 Ohms but "one of these days" I plan to use the pre outs to add a SOnance amp I picked up cheap at GW.
Good luck.
Kent
Yes I’m well aware the 7s are nominal 4ohm....
I said 120 watts of AMPLIFIER power at 8ohm rms per channel would be a great match for those.
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4 hours ago, austingonzo said:
Update: the Pioneer Elite AVR has no pre-outs, so I'm back to square one. I have noticed since then that the CD-7's sound best to my old ears when driven at a higher volume than the volume at which I typically listen. I have won on auction a different vintage AVR, the Pioneer VSX-D1S. It should take a week or so to arrive. I am curious whether the higher wattage, lower THD and voicing of this receiver will improve the details produced by the Allisons. I simply cannot afford to listen to them regularly at the volume at which they sounded the best with the Rotel. I would still appreciate suggestions for better/best pairings from more experienced users.
Thanks.
Best suggestion I can offer you in your shopping travels, is to get yourself in the average of 120 watts per channel @8ohm with those puppies.
Whatever you come up with, if you can get into that range and even better with a Subwoofer integrated, you will get the best out of those systems they have to offer.
Bill
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On 5/19/2019 at 10:44 AM, frankmarsi said:
Isn't anyone going to describe and share what they're listening to by simply posting a video?
Has this site become a tinkerer's workshop and not that of listeners?
Comparing to the car world, are we the 'pit-crew' at the car race and not the 'Drivers'?
The winning rewards are in the driving, not the changing of tires and the wiping of windshields.
Frank,
It’s amazing ? that just by hearing the jazz on your video I can pick up the clean, crystal clear sound you’re getting.
No frequency range on a smart phone (like listening to the whole thing thru one tweeter) but if your sound was dull or muddy that would reveal itself.
Bill
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On 5/17/2019 at 2:07 PM, frankmarsi said:
5-17-19
“” Do AR speakers really sound that good? or “Sharing the Sound” or “Why Do We Toil The Way We Do With Old Wooden Boxes?”
Does anyone want to share with other members what their set-up sounds like?*
Obviously you have a computer and maybe a digital camera or phone so, chances are your digital camera/phone can record video.
How long can members go on speaking about sanding rectangular wood boxes and cleaning potentiometers, or reinforcing particleboard T-nut fasteners with wood glue?”
I grew up with AR’s in the house and YES they sounded very good.
But....something was missing to my ears and indeed, I grew weary of the whole potentiometer thing.
When I heard the Allison One and bought my first pair, it was pure coincidence that I discovered afterwards that Roy Allison was part of AR beforehand.
Too bad the Allison slope switches never made it into the old AR’s in place of those pots...it most decidedly would have been a step up (they’re not perfect either) but at least they are virtually self cleaning, simply by sliding them back and forth, with a shot of Deoxit every couple of years.
The Allison’s play cleaner and louder, and that was the real game changer.
Bill
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4 hours ago, Chaz said:
The woofers were not changed - just the foam surrounds. It's a pretty symmetrical room and I positioned myself smack in the middle, and listened to a bunch of different songs, and it is certainly louder. It could also be my 35 year old Marantz P700 that has differing output channels, but I don't notice it using my other speakers. I used the attenuating levers on the back to try to balance them out, but still needed to swing the balance off-centre a bit. These speakers sound fantastic and now make my trusty Boston Acoustics sound a bit muddy in comparison, so balancing them out was well worth it.
Using the balance control is a small compromise indeed!
The drivers in the two versions are identical, and that’s really all that matters.
Over the years, many changes occurred in the build of the Allison Midrange and Tweeter....most of those to protect the drivers from getting mashed in, but the raw performance remained the same.
I use 3 pairs of Allisons in my Music/Movie system, and all the drivers, (except the woofers) have the factory protective screens.
Bill
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40 minutes ago, austingonzo said:
Okay, I've broken down and submitted a request to join the Yahoo group after retrieving my old profile. Down the rabbit hole I go!
Ha Ha...……………(you can tell them I say "hi")
Even on my iPhone I could hear your tweeters ! That is a very "live" sounding room, with hard wood area rug and so on. (of course no critical listening evaluation.)
With some hearing loss (or without) voices can become harder to stand out in such a reverberant field.
Some acoustic panel treatment on the walls could help that.
Bill
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5 minutes ago, austingonzo said:
I'm trusting that TexaSound won't mess with them if they bench well, Bill. Let me see if I can figure out how to post links to videos or PM you a shared link. As I said, they could be fine and the issue is due to hearing loss on my part, room acoustics, source, performance of the Rotel, etc. It's sometimes hard to say with so many elements in the chain. My troubleshooting skills are better on computers than audio gear, unfortunately.
Ok... I was able to view the front facing shot with the grill off.
That is the correct tweeter.
Those speakers look beautiful in that shot!
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11 minutes ago, austingonzo said:
Hello austingonzo,
Hard to characterize the sound you’re getting....seeing the tweets just to be sure they are correct.
The crossovers, if unaltered, should be fine with the original capacitors (very high quality). I m running all originals without issues.
Are you certain both tweeters were operational?
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10 hours ago, austingonzo said:
By the way, is the Yahoo Group still in existence; or was that forum and its archives lost to the ether? I haven't ventured on to a Yahoo group in at least 5 years.
Someone from the Allison Speakers Yahoo! Group contacted me several months ago because there was a spirited discussion going on there involving the IC20’s.
He said I was “missing out”, but I had too many problems with Yahoo (a shame, not the group itself) to go back there again.
In lieu of the spam risk, there is (or was) a lot more Allison going on there, than here.
Can you post a picture....I’m interested in seeing the tweeters in Your speakers.
Bill
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According to the Spec. sheet data, the newer (CD9) has slightly higher 90 db. SPL over the older version, that's rated at 87.
So, the CD 9 SHOULD be the louder of the two.
Yours is a somewhat negligible difference and even loudspeaker placement could have the other appear to play louder.
Bill
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I have both specs. here.
Long time since I looked, and curious about the output difference.
Are the EBay woofers OEM and matched? If not could easily account for the discrepancy.
Bill
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17 hours ago, mikezohsix said:
I understand I will not have the push pull woofers, and will not have "real" IC20's, but I'll be closer to them then I currently am with my refreshed A:1's. I have considered the push pull, and could print the reverse woofer tube, which I may very well do if I decide to build IC20 replica cabinets. I'm not there yet, this is an interim experiment, that may never go any further.
I've played with stacking speakers, running multiples, and have always found the results interesting. You gain some things and lose other things. One of my other plans is to build a pair of either a 16 or 25 driver linear array. More drivers seem to mean more music. Roger Russell's, of McIntosh speaker fame in the same time frame as Roy Allison, last project was the IDS-25 array. Look it up, it's got quite a following, and I may not be remembering correctly, but I think RA was experimenting with them also.
Guess where I'm going with all this is I'd like to "correctly" add more drivers to the A:1. And by correctly, I mean use the original drivers (have them), and build the IC20 cross over - which I will do. To house the added four drivers to my "tops", I had first thought about cutting up a set of empty A:1 cabinets my son has, essentially lop the top off, flip it over, and put new top on it, and put it on top of my A:1. I was persuaded not to sacrifice those cabinets, so will build new. So now I'm committed to building new top cabinets, so really just want to see if RA kept the mid to tweet spacing the same as the A:1.
I may even build the switchable cross over, haven't decided yet, but if I do, it won't be remotely operated. So, short of the push pull, and the cabinet volume, I'll be as close as can be. Roy is not building these anymore, and as we all know, they're extremely rare, so how would one get close? - I think the path I'm on is pretty solid.
The way I added drivers to the Allison One was to jump to multi channel audio video, with them, starting all the way back in 2000.
That brought the driver count up from 12 to 20 plus the Subwoofer, and that brought the count to 21.
Adding the Subwoofer with an 80hz. Crossover point was the first most dramatic thing I ever did with those systems.
I had a blast revisiting my collection of music with that integration.
Its great that I got lucky later on with a pair of IC’s, but their impact was reduced in the overall system.
Bill
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5 hours ago, mikezohsix said:
Hi Bill -
Think I've contacted you before about your IC20's. The idea of owning something like them has never let go since the day I got my new-to-me A:1's working correctly. Short story on them, they turned up in CL, about 3 hours from my house, but not too far from my dad, so made a trip to pick them up. Got them home, and was very disappointed in the sound, just no life. A friend of mine at work, also active here, Teknofossil, had the schematic. Turned out most of the drivers were not wired correctly, so the "pairs" were fighting each other rather than work together. Fixed the wiring, and love at first listen - they're playing Cat Stevens as I type this!
I retired last week, and am looking for projects. Over the last 18 months or so I collected some A:1 tweeters and was given four mids and some common A:1 to IC20 cross over components (again by Teknofossil - thanks Tom!) with the idea that I'd build "tops" for my A:1's that would mimic the IC20, with a new cross over of course. This would be a quick and reversible path to at least get a feel for whether I'd want to build IC20 cabinets.
So with all that said, would you provide the center to center distance of the MTTM array from you speakers?
This will give me the cabinet dimensions for my "tops", to start my project.
Many thanks,
Mike
Hi Mike,
I’m sure I can dig out the dimensions on the cabinets though your specific request leaves me somewhat confused.
I need to throw some water on your ambitious idea and don’t take it to heart, but at this point in time no one could possibly replicate IC20’s...no not even close, for many reasons.
Not the least of which are the woofers and the reverse tube assemblies, both totally unique to that loudspeaker.
For 35 years I (very happily) drove the Allison:One.
If you whip a pair of Those puppies into top shape, you’ll be as close, these days as you can get.
Bill
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It’s hard for me to believe that already, it’s been 6 and a half years since I parked the IC 20’s In my listening space.
All is working just as it should.
Bill
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I know the temptation to walk away from Tnuts when the particle board strips or breaks away, but it’s important to remember that the particle board itself is the REAL problem.
When the drill holes are made for the drivers, invariably one occasionally ends up where the board is weaker than in another location, so later on we end up with the problem. Carefully handled, the T nuts are just fine and I replace one that’s impossible with a nylon hollow wall anchor.
Bill
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Hi Tom,
There was a point when I actually thought about going to the 901 for that sheer DB output those units were capable of.
I preferred the overall sound of the Allison:One, but I also had a too loud habit (continuously) in those days.
I went back many times and played the 901s but never went for them.
Bill
Allison one woofers
in Allison
Posted
I have seen 10 inch 4ohm woofs that looked like these also come from Allison. I bought 1, guessing around 1994. Only difference from your pictures was that the cone had a protective coating painted on it. It sounded fine, mixed in one cabinet with an original, unlike the eminence.
Those last years of Allison saw many changes as they were going out of business, transitioning to Stanford Acoustics among other things, that I know only bits and pieces of.
Outsourcing woofers was definitely one of those things, so it’s very possible the woofers you show, though not originals may very well have once shipped from the company.
Bill