newandold
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Posts posted by newandold
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6 hours ago, Pete B said:
"The excursion requirements go way up with EQ like this, when pushed of course.
This is expecially bad for small speakers, perhaps just use it at low listening levels."
Exactly!
The Allison ESW was ok back in the day when these speakers were NEW....but now, BAD IDEA.
Subwoofer is the way to go. Great bass extension alternatively, without stressing these precious and now scarce drivers.
There has been an explosion of small, effective outboard powered (and some passive) subwoofers that are great with small to mid sized loudspeakers.
Unheard of choices compared to what you could do in the seventies.
Bill
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On 2/27/2018 at 9:16 PM, lakecat said:
Hi Tom......My group of friends back in the 70's worshiped the 901. Hanging them from the ceiling in the corners and it was music heaven...:) Even the nightclubs had them hanging on the dance floors where we went to drink and dance with the girls. I drove mine with a Sansui 9090 that I still own. Always got a lot of critics but I ignored it....as it sounded fine to me. Amar gets a pat on the back from me....and I have two sets of the Series II Continentals as a tribute to him.
Thanks for the cool picture of the 901.
I believe the 901 used in the discos way back were a commercial version designed to handle heavier high volume usage.
Both however, could handle all kinds of power and were a good match for the “super amps” that were also arriving on scene.
I recall taking a motorcycle ? ride with a buddy of mine to a Holiday Inn for a demo of the WAVE radio.
As usual, BOSE put on a clever show with it....hiding it behind a big video screen, that raised to impress everybody about the little box with the big sound.
The cutaway units showing the air channels were also on display.
Bill
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Those woofers were selling for 60 or 70 a pop new before the company closed the door. (As a reference point)
After nearly 2 decades the pickins are getting slim.
For original Allisons, you will need to watch the marketplace and grab one at a time and maybe, from purchasing used systems in any shape that contain the 8 inchers.
Bill Legall can "match" a pair (sensitivity) even if they are from different systems. Still, they both of course need to be 4 ohm.
I bought a 10 inch Allison from a CD 9 once for 5 bucks.
Still in a box I've had it for years and have not done anything to it yet.
Bill
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Everything "Hi Fi" started for me with my parents having a pair of Ar 2a 1963.
Though I'm now a die hard Allison guy, I will buy this book and soak it up, cover to cover as soon as it comes out!
Bill
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The document is now here as 4 attachments.
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The Allison Electronic Subwoofer was a great idea back when these speakers were relatively new.
Today, with the average age of Allisons being at least 40 years young, the LAST thing I would be interested in is using a device that is going to have those old woofers working harder than ever.
The opposite is preferred, IMHO....get a competent powered subwoofer and let that provide the lower frequencies while giving the old Allisons a break.
Save on both amplifier demand and excessive excursion of 40 year plus woofers.
Just sayin
Bill
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On 3/9/2017 at 1:13 PM, JerryS said:
Did Allison change the tweeter design of the AL-110/115s over time? Around 1998, I bought a pair of speakers directly from the factory; it was an unusual pair that they basically put together for me: AL-110 drivers in AL-105 cabinets. Together with an active subwoofer (different brand), these sounded better than anything else I could afford for the past 18 years. Catastrophe struck a few months ago when a leak in my house soaked the speakers and ruined the cabinets. The drivers were fine. I found a pair of AL-115s in perfect condition, luckily, and bought them. The moment I listened to them, though, I could tell the tweeters were not as sweet as my old ones. Not as transparent, airy or delicate. Narrower sounds stage. More sibilant. Nowhere near as smooth at high volumes. The tweeters looked pretty much the same from the outside, so I took them out of the cabinets...and there were differences between the two sets. The old ones were heavier (each 27.3 ounces vs 21.3) with bigger magnets (pictures attached). I swapped the tweeters (cutout dimensions etc matched perfectly), and the AL-115s now sound superb....better than the old setup and I am beyond happy. Added lower end punch and midrange richness. Can anyone shed light on the tweeter differences? I can't tell how old the AL-115s are, although I think they are newer than my old hybrid Allisons. Only one of the AL-115s has a label, and the company address is Bellingham, MA; serial # R 3607. Thanks.
The one with the can on it is a tweeter used in the NL series of magnetically shielded home theater speakers available in the mid 90s.
I found from my own experience with those systems, the condition of the woofer has a dramatic impact on the overall response of the system.
Bill
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That should be a sweet room for them.
Actually, the hardest thing to do with the Allison's is to put them where they sound "bad" if you know what I mean!
Enjoy!
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48 minutes ago, jayrosc said:
The drivers in my A4's look just as good.
Now that I'm using these regularly I wonder about power. I'm using a Marantz 2235B with 35WPC. I wonder if this is a bit light for these.
It's enough, unless you like to play things consistently on the louder side, then 80/100 WPC (used with discretion) could be better. Straining an amp. to its limits could fry a tweeter down the road.
I'm sure you've seen that it doesn't take much power to get nice volume out of those A4's.
You could also improve the output of those by adjusting the placement. If that's your layout (pictured).
The speakers are hampered being so far back on that table, with the reflections against it and also, the receiver partially blocking the inside tweeters and all rather close together. I understand there is not always a choice, but perhaps you could try stands against the wall, with a farther spread.........it would make a world of difference.
Bill
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Those A2 drivers are in beautiful original condition!
A joy to see given some of the junk that shows up on EBay with all the dust caps mashed in.
Bill
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That's great!
Your original Two has double the amount of connections for the midrange and tweeters with those pins that were eliminated in the newer design.
its very important, especially with the tweeters, to clean the pins with the wires removed. Rotating the top of the pin with the wire in place can damage the tweeter lead ends.
Bill
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"In terms of the price my response was driven by the fact they have been listed as long as they have been, but of course location has some impact."
Hi David,
There are a number of reasons I think those are still out there, but the main one is the ad. itself is just awful. No real description and just a one liner about getting a repair kit for one woofer, which is absolutely absurd for the serious user/collector. By the way, I agree more than disagree with you on the price....I would not call it way too expensive, but the reality is ALL 4 woofers must come out and be refoamed, and if it were me, the spiders would also be replaced. Everything else on the woofs should be just fine. So in their present shape, a few hundred could come off the price tag.
The problem with the spider is the age will allow excessive excursion of the driver as the spider looses compliance, even though they may be totally intact.
If you tell it like it is with a highly detailed description of the item and price it accordingly, it will go. I've been an Ebayer for years and in fact sold my own pair of Allison Ones there also.
Location....wow! they are in New Jersey. I wish My "new" Allisons were that close. I did a 9 hour turnaround with a rental truck to pick up those beasts (Mass). The IC20 in it's original carton is the size of a small refridgerator. To get them home as perfect as they were, I wanted those original shipping cartons which meant getting that rental truck.
"The Ones seem they would be a very difficult speaker to ship"
A deal breaker for me with Allison Prisms. I pick them up.......or leave them.
"Plus I was fortunate I guess and got mine for $400 with everything working"
That sounds like a VERY good deal. Mine sold for 700.00 and that included an extra perfect Allison woofer and an extra tweeter if I remember correctly, it's been a few years now.
"AT some point I will run through them with new caps"
Get ready for a nightmare with that one. VERY difficult to work on those (like the AR) glued and stapled and even worse that a conventional box design.
I've never known anyone who has replaced those already high quality Caps in the Allison's and could say afterwards that there was a difference in the sound, even if the cap. measured some drift.
Bill
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Way too expensive?
I disagree and I'll explain why.....
The ad is terrible as is the presentation of that pair. The first picture shows the covers hanging off, just looking rather unflattering to say the least.
Yet when you get into it (and especially if you have been keeping an eye out as long as I have (many, many years), the value becomes clear.
Those are second generation A1's with an improved crossover network and the newer cabinet connections for the midrange and tweeters that are now connected internally, without the older brass pins. Those are more problematic and fragile, and these are superior in that regard.
....And the most important thing of all are those unblemished tweeters and midrange units (all of them it appears). Allison drivers NEVER EVER show up any longer in that condition.
Now of course, the woofers will need work, but that is simply normal for that vintage. My IC 20's also needed that fix and they are newer, perhaps as much as a decade, give or take.
With a relative small amount of work, those units could be as nice as Tom Tysons, and his are the finest pair of A1's I have ever seen.
If those units were done already with the woofers serviced as necessary, I would pay 15 to 1700.00 for them without hesitation.
So really, it's about who's in the market.
Bill
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Two and a half months later, this pair of A1's sit on Ebay, still.
Ten years ago, they would have been long gone.
No where the interest compared to Acoustic Research (what a lively bunch here!)
It's been that way ever since I started following these speakers on the Internet.
Bill
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14 hours ago, DavidDru said:
So what does Bill charge for refurbishing the woofers? (as I listen to mine now)
http://www.millersound.net/index.html
For pricing.....
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38 minutes ago, owlsplace said:
Bill gets rave reviews for a reason.
You bet....His "trademark" is not only to repair but improve.
in the case of the woofers, the baskets had material added to reduce resonance. Additionally,
the woofers that went out in pairs were tested to match.
Bill
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Absolutely......
I have 8 woofers in my system, all of which have had the spiders replaced (professionally done). The last four this summer, plus my two 8 inch Allison backup woofers, and the 10 inch drivers done in 2012 for the main speakers.
All of that work was done by Bill Legall of Miller Sound, out in PA.
I started a thread a while back on the Eight Inch woofers, complete with photos here under Allison, in case you missed that.
What gets missed by some is that even if the spider is solidly intact, they become weak with age and allow excessive excursion of the woofers when the music or movies really get pumping.
After 30 years of average service, I believe (at least with the Allison's) the spider replacement should be done.
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25 minutes ago, owlsplace said:
Nice, when it rains, it pours as there is a NIB pair of AR-5's on the auction site for the same price also. That would be a tough choice for me
Well a few things...
tighter imaging would belong to the 5, so preference there should make it easy, unless collectors hobby is the goal.
Those ones will need all new foam ( not one) woofer as the seller claims. Personally I would not do that without also replacing the (brittle) no doubt spider ?!
Bill
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Nearly two months later (and 700 cheaper) those ones are still on EBay
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If anyone is interested there are a dent free pair of Allison Ones on EBay.
Thats very rare these days to see the midrange and tweeters unblemished.
The woofers look to be totally untouched and that's great but too old to run in my opinion without rebuilding, meaning both the spiders and surrounds should be replaced.
Curious what happened to the brass badges missing from the grills.
Bill
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Last year I started this thread for the IC20 user manual, only to realize the file was too large for download as one document.
Finally, I got around to it....sorry for the long delay.
One page is out of order in the first document, however if you go thru them, all pages are there for viewing.
Bill
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1 hour ago, tysontom said:
Audioholics, an on-line audio publication, has just published my tribute to Roy Allison:
http://www.audioholics.com/news/a-tribute-to-roy-f.-allison
--Tom Tyson
Hi Tom,
Thank you for those wonderful tributes, both here and at Audioholics (one of my favorite "reality check" sites.)
For those of us fortunate enough to keep Roy's loudspeakers humming, the tribute will never end.
Bill Mina
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In this crazy world of audio, Roy was always my ultimate "hero".
His genius brought the sound of real world acoustic instruments home like no other.
When others opted for platinum or titanium, Roy stuck with his "treated" paper for all the right reasons. (driver design)
Hats off to one of the greatest of all time in his field, and a wonderful person....he will be missed.
Bill Mina
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Well this was a fantastic read guys! Welcome Bill and welcome back Howard! good stuff all. Love the history that some f you can provide for the rest of us.
I have A1's. How much larger are the IC20?
Hello David,
The IC-20 stands at 48x21x12, with an internal cabinet volume of 6000 cubic inches.
The A1's dimensions are 40x19x10 3/4 with an internal volume of 2550 cubic inches.
I loved those A1's and would still own them if the chance to grab the IC's had not come up.
Thanks for the welcome.
Bill
The Electronic Subwoofer
in Allison
Posted
Little to do with “clean power” but rather the frequency response those drivers are asked to respond to.
That’s the litmus test for how bulletproof they really are.
I paired the A1’s to a “Bulletproof” Velodyne powered subwoofer ? and as a system, they reached 15 HZ, and the ESW can’t go near there.
Bill